Would be nice to hear back from the OP…
The place that stores my semen does NOT accept a shipment unless they receive notification PRIOR to the arrival of what’s inside the container upon arrival. The shipment paperwork must match what they were told and the shipment must match what both sets of oaoerwork say. If it doesn’t, they report it immediately to all parties involved.
I was surprised this year when I received my frozen order to find that Rotspon, who used to be 8 straws per dose, was now 4. And 3. I bought two doses. One had 3 straws and one had 4 straws. Semen was fabulous though. 3 straws, one insemination = pregnancy.
[QUOTE=genevieveg17;7602062]
I was surprised this year when I received my frozen order to find that Rotspon, who used to be 8 straws per dose, was now 4. And 3. I bought two doses. One had 3 straws and one had 4 straws. Semen was fabulous though. 3 straws, one insemination = pregnancy.[/QUOTE]
Since he stands at Celle, the dose should be easy to confirm. Rotspon has always been known to have great semen, but what if he IS still at 8 straws per dose and you only got 4?
Someone is producing a foal on your dime (or $750 as the case may be)…Did you confirm w/Celle what is his “normal” # of straws per dose?
Whaaat?
I’m a mare owner and I know how many straws are in a dose and tell the vet ahead of time. She usually confirms on arrival that she received x number of straws.
This happened to me and the vet told me that he couldn’t see the straws in the shipping container to count them when they arrived. He explained how it’s really hard to see them so he can’t inventory them when they arrive. It was one of the most ridiculous conversations I have ever had. The vet made me feel like it was my fault that the straws were missing even though I had no way to ever have contact with them.To me the one’s responsible for the straws are the seller, the shipper and the vet. In my instance the seller is reputable and had carefully inventoried them and had made clear notes about the number of straws that had been sent. Regardless, the seller sent me a two straws to make up the difference. The seller did not have to do this as it was clear to me that their documentation was very thorough but I would certainly purchase from this seller again because of the quality of service. I am not using the vet again though. The vet actually sent me a $90 bill for storage of the straws that they either lost or that did not exist (which we will never know since they were not checked at any point after they arrived.)
The semen I purchased was quite reasonable but I’m wondering what he tells people when he’s missing their Totilas straws!
What Hony said. I KNOW the numbers of straws coming, I tell my vet clinic how many straws are expected. They would tell me quick smart if the contents did not meet expectations. I would take it from there.
Nice to hear that several of you MO’s know and check. 
You’d be amazed to know how many don’t … they just assume that the correct number will be shipped, the correct number will be received and the correct number will be used
Why is there so much variation in the number of straws for each dose? Is that just because some stallions have more swimmers per unit volume?
Some brokers get very defensive when asked how many straws per dose. Makes for an interesting conversation at times.
[QUOTE=ponygirl;7606554]
Some brokers get very defensive when asked how many straws per dose. Makes for an interesting conversation at times.[/QUOTE]
That should not be acceptable either. Sometimes, and flame suit on, I wonder if the breeding industry is the way it is due to it mainly being women in NA. I hate the way that sounds but sometimes women are too polite and will not push back. That can be true of men but my experience is that it is more common with women.
[QUOTE=VirginiaBred;7601889]
Would be nice to hear back from the OP…[/QUOTE]
The OP has not been logged on since May 30th.
An update would be nice.
interesting…
[QUOTE=stoicfish;7606698]
That should not be acceptable either. Sometimes, and flame suit on, I wonder if the breeding industry is the way it is due to it mainly being women in NA. I hate the way that sounds but sometimes women are too polite and will not push back. That can be true of men but my experience is that it is more common with women.[/QUOTE]
I’m thinking it’s “learned helplessness” that is one keeps trying to get better service/treatment and hits a brick wall, so mare owner stops trying to get better treatment. It may very well be cultural (include female in this definition). I’m thinking that the warmblood breeding industry is so small and new in North America that the abusive types haven’t been culled yet. I’m happy to see that social media is starting to help us all find out about the worst offenders.
So I’m grateful for this COTH forum and everyone’s candor.
[QUOTE=Hony;7605182]
This happened to me and the vet told me that he couldn’t see the straws in the shipping container to count them when they arrived. He explained how it’s really hard to see them so he can’t inventory them when they arrive. It was one of the most ridiculous conversations I have ever had. The vet made me feel like it was my fault that the straws were missing even though I had no way to ever have contact with them.To me the one’s responsible for the straws are the seller, the shipper and the vet. In my instance the seller is reputable and had carefully inventoried them and had made clear notes about the number of straws that had been sent. Regardless, the seller sent me a two straws to make up the difference. The seller did not have to do this as it was clear to me that their documentation was very thorough but I would certainly purchase from this seller again because of the quality of service. I am not using the vet again though. The vet actually sent me a $90 bill for storage of the straws that they either lost or that did not exist (which we will never know since they were not checked at any point after they arrived.)
The semen I purchased was quite reasonable but I’m wondering what he tells people when he’s missing their Totilas straws![/QUOTE]
I hope you didn’t pay that $90 bill and changed vets.
Interesting thread for sure. You would think someone could come up with a “Best Practises” protocol for brokers, vets and mare owners to follow.
Tough situation…just an idea for the future…reguire your vet to give you a written report (email) BEFORE he/she sends the shipping container back…I cannot think of a perfect way. Any problems then can be brought to light EL PRONTO when its easiest to fix. On this one you are sol unless the vet or supplier steps up. When I get semen it is accompanied by a written report by the supplier. I get a copy and of course the vet keeps one.
If a broker gets defensive or negative when you ask how many straws per dose, run the other way. That is NOT normal. Carol will always tell you straight up how many straws, no problem! Doug at Rideauwood and Global Equine Sires have them listed right on the website. If you are uncomfortable with the number mentioned/listed, just email the stallion owner and ask.
Fwiw I believe Celle cut back on the # of straws per dose in the last few years. I would be surprised if Rotspon were still 8 straws/ dose.
Just to be clear…
I have delt with Carol a number of times and have always found her to be helpful, honest and straight forward. In my current case there is no way to know what happened to the missing semen. I would trust Carol in a heartbeat, but my message is the same: count and verify the shipment when it arrives!!! The biggest problem I had was that my vet didn’t count the doses until long after they had been received.
[QUOTE=stoicfish;7606698]
That should not be acceptable either. Sometimes, and flame suit on, I wonder if the breeding industry is the way it is due to it mainly being women in NA. I hate the way that sounds but sometimes women are too polite and will not push back. That can be true of men but my experience is that it is more common with women.[/QUOTE]
Stoicfish - I guess I should pat myself on the back then… having been in this business with frozen semen since 1993, I have learned a lot of things the hard way and am at a point now where I don’t suffer fools lightly anymore! And it doesn’t matter whether they’re vets, semen sellers, shippers, or God’s assistants (in their mind).
PS.: I have nothing but good things to say about Carol as well as Select Breeders!
[QUOTE=siegi b.;7704108]
Stoicfish - I guess I should pat myself on the back then… having been in this business with frozen semen since 1993, I have learned a lot of things the hard way and am at a point now where I don’t suffer fools lightly anymore! And it doesn’t matter whether they’re vets, semen sellers, shippers, or God’s assistants (in their mind).
PS.: I have nothing but good things to say about Carol as well as Select Breeders![/QUOTE]
Siegi – I’m with you. The old adage about “if you want something done right, do it yourself,” is very true in alot of fields.
I’ve always been a pushy broad, but it’s more than being pushy…it’s taking care of the details.
ANd that can be a problem for some women – not the taking care of details part, but so often female breeders just stop their “job” as a breeder at picking the stallion, buying the semen and dropping the mare off at the vet.
A neighbor who only stayed in breeding for 2-3 yrs spent thousands last year with no pregnancies because “I was just doing what the vet told me to do.”
I used to be that way too…
But I’ve gotten so that I bird-dog just about every aspect of my breeding. I learned all I could about equine reproduction . When I use frozen I check the number of straws per dose , I check the year the stallion was collected.
This year I had most of my frozen sent directly to me and I put it in my tank (and I’ll tell you that reading those straws and doing a proper transfer is not as easy as it sounds), but I had some arrive from a stallion that MUST have DHI done for any chance of conception. Since I can’t do that (yet), those straws went right to my vet.
Just yesterday I dropped off two mares, both bay, both to be AI’ed with frozen, but 2 different stallions. One can be AI’ed post-ov with one dose, the other will end up getting 2 doses of 10 straws each from a different stallion AI’ed using DHI. Why? Because I don’t want to try again with this stallion, and his semen doesn’t live very long (all this I learned through my research), so I’ve decided to just use up both doses this cycle).
Along with “my” frozen in the vet’s tank, I also dropped off my own Dewar (tank), with frozen from 5 different stallions.
ONE dose (o/o 2) from ONE stallion should be going in One Bay Mare. The rest is for other horses.
So you can see the opportunity for error here, can’t you? I mean, when I read this back it’s kind of like trying to understand the characters/plot in Game of THrones or something.
Oh, and both these mares are new to the vet for this year. AND I know for a fact that he has screwed up before; this year he put the wrong stallion in the wrong mare (but breeder owned both mares & the semen, so she really wasn’t that upset) and last year he put someone else’s semen in another owner’s mare.
So even though I’ve stood beside him at 2 appts. with the mares in question, and we’ve gone through all of this verbally, I don’t consider that enough.
Because vets get busy, they get distracted…they are people.
JUST TO MAKE SURE I left him a detailed note with my semen tank listing:
- each mare’s name
- her description
3, the name of the stallion she is to be bred to - the number of doses for that stallion
- the number of straws in a dose for that stallion
- HOW it is to be inseminated (regular or DH)
7.Thawing instructions for each stallion - WHERE in my tank the stallion’s semen is located
AND reminded him that one of the mare’s was treated by his partner for a possible uterine infection, and the dates of her Exceed shots and suggestion for a possible post-breeding flush.
Of course, I can’t make him read the thing, but basically I’m doing all I can to make sure things flow smoothly.
And, like Siegi, I’ve learned to do this over the years because of all the screw-ups from brokers, shippers, vets and just about everyone involved (including me!).
Maybe this thread will save some newbie breeders the hassle that some of us had to go through before we “got it.”
