Any felony keeps him on SS for sure.
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That didn’t/doesn’t prevent Barney Ward or Paul Vallière from making a good living.
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As I’ve mentioned on one of these threads (can’t recall which at this point), SafeSport bans are different from the USEF bans that BW and PV received because they include penalties for USEF members who continue to do business with SafeSport banned individuals. This is the SafeSport aiding and abetting provision.
For example, USEF members can not receive training or instruction from George Morris, even if he never sets foot on a USEF competition. One individual already received a one month suspension for ignoring this provision and hosting a GM clinic at their private farm.
If MB is banned by SafeSport he would only be able to train non-USEF members.
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Okay. Let us all be real. There have been a lot of statements, both recent and former, that blame the victim and/or exonerate the perpetrator. I think it is disingenuous to append said statements with cutesy hashtags or disingenuous disclaimers. That is my stance. You are saying that LK did not deserve to be shot, and on that point we agree. But where posts that imply her abhorrent, erratic behavior make her culpable for the outcome garner dozens of likes? Can we not all agree that is victim blaming? If you don’t find that troubling then I don’t think we are on the same page. Plain and simple.
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We don’t really know what happened. But let’s hypothetically give a narrative that he grabbed a gun and ran to where she was with malice in his heart and shot her.
Then of course he is guilty in the most heinous way. I think almost everyone if not everyone here would agree.
What we are engaging in is an examination as to what drives a law abiding citizen to cross the line from peaceful athlete to stone cold wannabe killer in that case. Was he driven to kill? Or, was his presence intentioned on something else?
That’s what the court will decide.
But discussing the various timelines, narratives, traumas, triggers, acts, torts on both parties parts is NOT victim blaming but rather an attempt to rationalize out the timeline, torts and trauma that led to this conclusion.
And for us to figure out WHY it happened we have to know HOW it happened.
And ex parte testimony NEVER gives the full story.
But remember, that’s not the only possible narrative now is it?
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Nope.
Why does anyone get a pass on terrible behavior, once they themselves are victims?
They can be both a horrible person, and a victim.
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ghst13 -Thanks for the explanation.
Edited to delete a follow-up question that a simple google search answered for me.
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Angela_FredaSchoolmaster
Nope.
Why does anyone get a pass on terrible behavior, once they themselves are victims?
They can be both a horrible person, and a victim.
@erinmeri, I think you are confusing discussing the victim with blaming the victim. There are certain posters for whom any discussion of the victim in anything less than glowing terms is victim blaming. That’s simply not accurate. You can discuss someone’s objectively awful behaviour without the automatic implication that they deserved something that happened to them. The vast majority of the posters here genuinely believe that she did not deserve to be shot AND also that a lot of her behaviour as evidenced by various public records, online content, and first-person reportage is reprehensible.
A drunk driver killed someone in my nuclear family. I do not forgive her her past sins no matter what happens to her in the future. I think she’s an awful person and I sincerely wish she had not been born. She destroyed whole parts of my family and left many with deep scars. And I don’t even think she should be shot, let alone someone I never heard of until this case hit this forum. [edit]
Thinking adults can, indeed, believe someone is the antichrist and still believe they should not be shot. Some in my family had pity on her and even considered her request to do no jail time, though, admittedly, not I. If she were the victim in this case I would be on here sharing all my stories and painting her as the garbage human that she is to me and telling you all she killed someone while DUI and did jail time and asked for none and all the other awful things she did to us. And I would also be capable of sincerely holding the opinion that she shouldn’t be shot no matter how awful a person she is.
If you [can’t] to understand that thought process, all I can say is, bless. However, don’t project your own lack of complexity onto others.
Sometimes bad things happen to bad people. It doesn’t magically make them not bad people and people can still discuss their character - or lack thereof - without blaming them for the crime committed against them.
Lordy, why is this concept so hard to grasp for some?
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That’s really well said. Just because erinmeri isn’t able to consider the complexities of mixed emotions that come with recognizing a victim is abhorrent and their behaviour is reprehensible, as well as believing they shouldn’t be shot, doesn’t mean the posters here can’t. As a matter of fact, her refusal to consider the multiple shades to the matter of despising LK and her behaviour, while also believing she should never have been shot, makes Emeri’s repeated insistance that the people on this board are trying to blame the victim seem purposely obtuse, and disingenuous. [Edit]. Its been explained. Give it a think.
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I would guess it is hard for some to grasp because they do not want to grasp it.
I can not think of any other rational reason.
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You are, of course, right. I think most of the “victim blaming” accusations come from one of two places. Either the person berating others is unwilling or unable to distinguish between discussing the victim’s non-incident related behaviour honestly and truly victim blaming, or the berator (I think I just made that word up) is unhappy about anything negative about the victim being aired and is trying to redirect the conversation and shut down any discussion that doesn’t glorify the victim.
Calling any discussion of bad behaviour on the part of the victim “victim blaming” is a strong-arm tactic deployed in an attempt to control the narrative - not about the crime but about the victim and her character. It’s sort of the nuclear option name calling card to pull in order to shut down anything not flattering to the victim EVEN if it is shared by someone who themselves is a victim. Even the NYT was intimidated by that label and churned out that article that made me seriously question the level of journalism I am paying for.
But I’m over it. I have someone in my life who killed my father - not almost killed, miraculously survived - killed dead, died on the road, alone. And I don’t even wish that person dead let alone some random person I’d never heard of before, never met, and never will.
I’m saying loud and clear, don’t even start with me about being disingenuous when I say she didn’t deserve to be shot even though all evidence seems to indicate she is not a good person. If I react to or discuss things about her behaviour shared here by her own victims or through public records, filings, etc. that doesn’t change my position at all about whether or not she or anyone should be shot.
[Edit]
If you have identified some particular posters and specific posts that say the victim deserved to be shot, call out those people by name using screen shots/quotes of their posts. Otherwise, leave the rest of us in peace from this tired lack of critical thinking nonsense.
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Amen! The article others still post as gospel even today!
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I mean, some of the article was fine. And there are certainly folks who were out of line, like SW, or whoever the Dressage Hub person is. Fair play, call that crap out b/c it’s not okay.
But in that article, the writer pussy foots around LK’s own online harassment even while posting some of the stuff written to GJ right in the article. It’s just not accurate or authentic to the situation for that reporter to have simultaneously printed that stuff without having the integrity to truly acknowledge it. And to paint everyone as victim blaming when she could see a lot of it was discussion or LK’s own victims coming forward with their own stories, each just as legitimate to them as LK’s is to her. That’s what was so thoroughly disappointing about that article: it’s a complex situation and deserved a nuanced treatment.
There were some victim blamers to call out. But then there was the more challenging story of a victim who herself has left a trail of victims and damage and litigation and chaos in her wake for decades. The reporter was unwilling to wade into that story out of, I assume, fear of being called a victim blamer herself if she honestly reported on what was happening. Fair enough, but then simply don’t write the article rather than publish something so lacking in internal consistency, among other things.
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If I recall correctly LK was also looking forward to being on a segment of GMA. That seems to have been forgotten after the fluff from the NYT. Perhaps they actually dug into the history and thought better of it. The sad thing is Nir called dozens of people for information and ignored what she was told for the most part.
I definitely am one of the “victim shamers” and I haven’t changed my stance in two years. If anything, my opinion has been strengthened over the past month or so with all the threatening messages sent to so many users, coupled with the information in the Barisone suit. At least I am consistent 
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I recall thinking that Nir got more than she bargained for on this story. Maybe she just wanted to wash her hands and move on after digging into the mess of this story.
In getting up to speed on developments on this story over last few weeks on this forum, I must say I’m shocked but not surprised to learn about the reported threats made by LK to COTH users through private messaging. Early on, we were privy to the insanity of LK from screenshots of her late night rants. Truly unnerving, and not surprising that her family chose to keep her at arms length.
The recent filing of the Barisone lawsuit with details of his situation with LK prior to the shooting is very sad indeed. Obviously she did not deserve to be shot. No one deserves to be on the receiving end of such violence. HOWEVER, she was a bear who seemed to dare many to “poke her”. I think that in part this had to do with her many years of serious chemical addiction. It does not excuse her behaviour either, but it does provide some context.
I am no Barisone “fan girl”, nor am an LK hater in the vein of DH/SW. Like many, I would like to see some justice served, whatever that may be.
Thank you eggbutt, knights mom, and others for updates and valuable interpretations of the law and the recent history of this case.
Hope you all have a good weekend and are able to get some saddle time in
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Some struggle with nuance
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I’ve gotten kind of lost on where this all stands. Is there a known date (or approximate timing) of a trial or a milestone coming up? What is the next ‘thing’ waiting to happen?
I would suggest it’s lazy, to not paint the fuller picture.
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No known dates for anything yet.
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To be fair, I wonder if the Times imposes limits on the number of words, etc.
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