Court date for Michael Barisone?

[CanteringCarrot]

@KellyS

See, you guys just can’t help it…you can’t help but make snarky replies. If you don’t like assumptions being made about your experience (or lack thereof), why do you do it to others?

Some people on here get it, like the person who just posted (Twi) and the post I liked a couple of days ago, but you (group) put down all opinions if you don’t “like” the poster and/or their opinion doesn’t match your narrative.

This has been going on long before I joined the conversation.

You may have LEO experience but it doesn’t seem to provide good perspective on this particular case. And you should be the first to say maybe we shouldn’t assume things without more facts.

If you’re close to LE, you will know that officers are being gunned down simply for wearing the uniform. Fostering anti-LEO rhetoric puts my loved ones in danger. Do you know a cop that’s been killed? I do.

And so many of the comments I’ve read show absolutely no familiarity with people’s rights (“the police should have arrested them all”) but I don’t see anyone—including those with LEO experience—saying that doing it that way violates civil rights. You can’t have it both ways—either you want ethical behavior or you want LEOs to disregard the law.

It’s easy to post anything online. It would be nice to see some realization that your comments may affect the lives of real people.

And perhaps remember that kindness goes a long way ~ it’s fun to gossip about and bait LK, but a lot harder to ignore her and resist engaging in the drama.

I stuck around and posted in a variety of tones to see for myself how I would be treated if I didn’t present as an easily liked poster. Count how many posts were directed at me and what they said. The exact behaviors you (group) claim to hate are ones you are more than happy to use when it suits you.

I normally see this happen in political threads (and I’ve done it myself before I realized my own hypocrisy). It’s been interesting but also sad to see it play out with this group.

You asked about my motivations and I’ve given it to you straight. But can you stop being snarky at me or, better yet, be kind in every post?

I get that this is an emotional subject for you (LEO’s) and you’re passionate about it. I had to step away from an Afghanisfan thread on here because I’m very close to the matter at hand and some of the falsehoods being spread and/or attitudes were frustrating. Plus, there are things that I know, that possibly others aren’t (or don’t want to be) privy to.

I saw some painting police officers with a broad brush but not so much. There wasn’t some tirade on here against the police. For me, and many others it was more or an “Oh, sh*t” moment. As in, that’s crazy and disappointing if the allegations are true, but also crazy and disappointing if they’re not (as in, how bold to make such allegations and then they’re false and have wasted so many people’s time and put their reputations on the line).

I have no idea about any of it because I’m not privy to all of the details. That being said, as with any career field, there are “bad ones” and corrupt ones. Every career field has its bad eggs. Are these ones featured in the suit bad eggs? I have no idea and I can only hope not.

I can understand how having a spouse/loved one(s) who works in said field can make someone quite sensitive to some of the things being said here and/or some of the accusations made. However, like the rest of us, we have to wait to see what the courts say (unless you truly know every detail and piece of evidence). Our personal feelings and emotions can also cloud our views and we may not see things we don’t want to see, or recognize failure due to a sense of proudness or pride. Not saying there was failure, because I don’t know, just stating something that can happen.

I’m not sure that anyone is fostering anti-LEO rhetoric (but this thread is long so, maybe?) that puts your loved ones in danger. Even without that rhetoric, your loved ones are in danger (nature of the job, really) so I can imagine how the thought of anti-LEO anything would be triggering. I really despise anti-LEO rhetoric, but on the other hand also recognize that LEO’s are sometimes deserving of certain criticisms (I mean, there have been actual cases and proven issues). They’re not untouchable, but there is a line there. The whole “defund the police” thing really pissed me the eff off when that whole thing came about, for example.

Sadly, there are probably a few people or more on here that know a cop that has been killed. I think some of the attitudes out there toward good, hardworking LEO’s are terrible. You may not be in as unique of a position as you think

Due to the nature of my career field, I am well aware of people’s rights, but mostly on a larger scale. However, people are free to say “should’ve arrested them all” is it ignorant? Yep.

I stuck around and posted in a variety of tones to see for myself how I would be treated if I didn’t present as an easily liked poster. Count how many posts were directed at me and what they said.

Quite honestly I thought this was weird so you do have some time on your hands like many others on this thread but I mean, if it was a fulfilling social experiment for you, then whatever.

The thing with kindness is that it goes both ways the thing that gets on people’s nerves is this “holier than thou” tone. Or the getting mad at others for painting a group (LEO’s in this case) with a broad brush but also you are doing the same on here at times. I honestly don’t know what to make of your posts because on the one hand it seems like you may want to discuss the topic, but on the other hand it seems like you want to discuss the people discussing the topic and/or join in on the ad hominem stuff. Maybe it’s both, who knows.

I do think the whole “fan girls” notion is tired and a weak point. I really don’t see many MB fans here. Just because some are clinging to innocent until proven guilty, or are not LK fans, doesn’t mean that they’re a MB fan. Some of us are also not a fan of anyone involved. Believe it or not.

What is it about the case you’d like to discuss?

[FitzE]

@CanteringCarrot

The thing with kindness is that it goes both ways the thing that gets on people’s nerves is this “holier than thou” tone. Or the getting mad at others for painting a group (LEO’s in this case) with a broad brush but also you are doing the same on here at times. I honestly don’t know what to make of your posts because on the one hand it seems like you may want to discuss the topic, but on the other hand it seems like you want to discuss the people discussing the topic and/or join in on the ad hominem stuff. Maybe it’s both, who knows.

Yes, playing the role of Common Scold never got anyone anywhere and it’s rather tedious. KellyS did paint both a group of posters here and liberals (or was it progressives?) with a broad, generalising brush while scolding others for generalising about LEOs.

My SO was in the infantry and has 3 LEOs in his family (none of whom have been harmed in the line of duty, thanks be). They are the first to acknowledge that there are plenty of bad eggs in both organizations, just like there are bad doctors, lawyers, accountants, reporters. No one profession, regardless of the dangers inherent therein, is immune from bad actors. My SO and his family actually really dislike knee-jerk genuflection to military/LE because it’s so simplistic and because those positions come with enormous power and should be viewed critically and thoughtfully at all times. They maintain that good LEOs/soldiers should actively want the bad actors purged from the professional ranks, not protected behind a false wall of taboo against any criticism b/c of the dangers of the job.

I have made direct overtures to discuss the case twice now with no substantive response so I guess I am to make my conclusion from that. Paragraphs and paragraphs which, as you say, “discuss the people discussing the topic and/or join in on the ad hominem stuff.” But, not a nibble on discussion of the topic itself despite multiple professions to the contrary - nor any signs of that kindness towards other posters.

In fact, the thread had turned to eye witnesses and jurors feelings about defendants taking the stand until KellyS turned it BACK to “discussing the people discussing”. Indeed, the message is hopelessly mixed with no clarification.

[trubandloki]

Since one poster seems to want to discuss the topic of the other thread, the MB filing against the police, we might as well talk about that here too.

It was brought up in the other thread that the basic facts must be accurate or the lawyer would risk punishment. Am I remembering that right?

Like, when the lawyer says that the police came on X date but did not do their paperwork until days later, that is a fact that it would not look good if the lawyer was not accurate on. Or the fact that law enforcement did not remove LK from the property after the building inspector said everyone had to leave. Or the fact that MB went to the police department asking to speak to a supervisor and was bullied into leaving.

For the record, I am about as pro LEO as a person can be. I have many good friends who are current or retired LE. I agree with what was said above, the good LE should want the bad LE looked at with a good eye.

[FitzE]

My SO’s uncle always says, “People who say you cannot or should not criticise LEOs or military personnel either are, or know, someone in that profession who has something to hide.” Plus, he says, he always remembers who pays his salary.

I’m the same with lawyers: criticise away and let’s purge the bad actors! Who wants to be associated with the lowest of any profession?

My SO has a family friend who is a retired 4-star general in the US Army and he similarly has no truck with that nonsense. He believes military and LE are actually best placed to have higher standards of professional behaviour than other professions, not lower.

[CanteringCarrot]

I did think the whole eye witness thing was interesting though. It’s not so straight forward with eye witnesses. It’s also incredibly frustrating when something has happened, but there isn’t any evidence behind he said/she said to prove it.

I think many eye witnesses aren’t as reliable or accurate as we’d expect. It’s not their fault and usually they’re not doing it on purpose.

[FitzE]

I think they are generally quite unreliable. Most people have heard of the experiment where a professor has someone run through the lecture hall and then asks students to describe them and it all comes out so different from each person. Especially if there is a weapon, people stare at the weapon and nothing else registers (gender, height, hair colour, clothes, etc.).

[trubandloki]

@CanteringCarrot

I think many eye witnesses aren’t as reliable or accurate as we’d expect. It’s not their fault and usually they’re not doing it on purpose.

I agree. But it is true. There have been lots of experiments on this.

Heck, I think someone mentioned above (or maybe it was a different thread, maybe not even on this topic), I have sat at the doctor’s office and listened to what they said, or listened to the vet giving instructions to someone else and later on when I hear that information being repeated by the person it was given to I start to wonder if I was in some other place instead of there.

[cutter99]

@KellyS

See, you guys just can’t help it…you can’t help but make snarky replies. If you don’t like assumptions being made about your experience (or lack thereof), why do you do it to others?

Have you ever heard the phrase “you get what you give”?

Try taking a good hard look at your responses here and how you have treated others before you jump on your “drama llama” and decide you are the victim!

You expect others to read and know your posting history, yet have made assumption after assumption.

It gets done to you because it is what you do!

[trubandloki]

@cutter99, don’t worry about that stuff. Let’s carry on enjoying discussing the topic and let the people who want us to get sidelined by bashing us for discussing the topic do their thing without the fun of our response. You are not going to convince anyone sitting that high up on their horse that they are less than 100% right.

[Dee-Vee]

Yes please. The kid in the school yard loudly proclaiming “I know, but I am not telling,” is annoyingly side-tracking a legitimate and interesting conversation. My scroll thumb is sore.

[trubandloki]

I did look up some stuff about NJ’s gun laws (since it was brought up here) and how it relates to sentencing. (Disclaimer - I have no legal background so all my sources were just random articles and I admit I did not read too many of them.)

It does seem that if they can prove that MB brought the gun, that MB might have more jail time just because of that.

[LilRanger]

With regards to an insanity plea, and this is my understanding, but I’m not in NJ.

If an evaluation finds you meet the standard of not having the capacity to understand your actions would cause the harm, there are different outcomes:

The case is dismissed and you don’t suffer any consequences (not typical for violent crime), or if a very violent crime, you spend some time (6 months) in facility. (This is often for devopmentally disabled)

You are treated in a mental health institution until you reach competency, then the trial goes forward, with possible impact on your sentence if convicted.

You are sentenced and serve your time IN the mental health institution.

This is, again, not NJ, and coming from the perspective of someone working with the post trial folks, so not a prosecutor or defence attorney.

Edited for typos

[eggbutt]

Did someone post somewhere the gun went missing days before the shooting? Does anyone else recall reading that? If so, how do they know that? If that is true it could show clear premeditation on either party’s side.

[Graymaresrule]

I believe LK posted it was missing and I wondered how she knew

[OntheFnce]

@KellyS

Because I have friends and family in law enforcement in the area, and have spoken to someone on the legal side, who has filled me in on the details of how a case like this works.

If anyone would bother to read my posting history, you would see that my first comment replied to the comments made about the LEOs involved. Being incredibly close to that profession, it made me realize how these Barisone threads were being run on emotion rather than any knowledge of police procedure, legal strategy, or particularly, on-going domestic situations.

But try bringing that opinion to the table. If you go back through all the comments directed at me, no one is interested in actually learning anything (except one poster, who I acknowledged, but they then accused me of ignoring them) only in their own pet theories.

I think it boils down to people preferring echo chambers and having their own opinions confirmed. And not liking the idea of looking closely at their assumptions and biases.

Every time I’ve posted, I’ve thought surely they will move on this time rather than spend 10+ posts misconstruing what I’ve said or assigning motives to me that are completely off the wall (the alter one was the best).

I think people become so invested in these online worlds that they forget they are discussing real people’s lives. It’s easy to say that police officers didn’t do their jobs based on a suit designed to set the defendant up with an insanity plea, but you’re talking about real people, with families and jobs that put them at high risk due to the current environment.

As I said, I am close to this field, so when the conversation veered into talking about how police basically suck, it caught my attention and made me look at things more closely.

While this entire case serves as entertainment for you (group), it involves real people, their families, and their futures. Yet no one really seems to care about that, only in making up stories about what they think happened.

Not to mention, spending an inordinate amount of time focusing on posters they really should just ignore if they don’t want them to contribute. But when it becomes a group sport—singling one or two people out—that appears to be just as much fun.

So long story short, I think non-experts do a lot of harm when they get involved in real-life situations without any evidence or knowledge of actual events, but they will do anything to defend their right to do so.

I also predict that it will be impossible for people to avoid responding to this post. Based on all the posts directed at me, I’ve obviously hit a nerve, which says a lot in itself. Otherwise, you would have truly ignored me.

I do challenge you to get to know a law enforcement officer. You’ll stop painting them all with the same broad brush and perhaps come to understand the profession better.

Omg, and somehow this makes you an expert in LE as well as litigation?
And of course, you are expecting and wanting people to respond to this post. It’s called attention seeking.

[eggbutt]

Walk on by.

[eggbutt]

Perfectly logical scenario IF MB did not have the gun with him, is that LK and RG had it. I can imagine her having the gun, going after MB along with the dog, phone in her left hand and gun in the right, with MB grabbing it with his left hand (dominant), grappling with her, turns the gun away from him and it fires 3 times - 2 into her left breast and 1 into the front doorjamb. RG comes rushing to the rescue, subdued MB, while LK disconnects her call and calls 911. Perfectly possible. There are so many perfectly possible scenarios and all it takes is reasonable doubt. Of course, the opposite could be true…MB stormed to the house, gun in his left hand, began demanding they leave immediately, dog attacks, LK attacks with her phone, he shoots her and an errant shot hits the house.

Without the medical records no one knows if the shots were straight in or angled from her right to left.

[Sdel]

@eggbutt

Did someone post somewhere the gun went missing days before the shooting? Does anyone else recall reading that? If so, how do they know that? If that is true it could show clear premeditation on either party’s side.

They posted that the date on the RC gun charges in the NJ court database was for the 5th and the shooting was the 7th. I never could independently find the charge and the screenshot doesn’t show any dates that I could tell.

If this is accurate, it might mean that in one of these police responses it was mentioned that RC had her gun on site. However, I’m not clear as to if the gun was or should have been confiscated and RC arrested then or if that might not have happened because the gun was “missing” and the police couldn’t prove it was illegal without the gun present.

What I do know…the charges for RC don’t support LK’s assertion of conspiracy and abetting. I also know, that given LK’s rabid insistence of abetting/conspiracy that is not in evidence (aka a lie/slander/libel), it begs the question about what else is being made up for her side of the story.

It seems odd to me, that someone so wholeheartedly invested in the conspiracy/abetting story (and is a 1st hand account) would even offer an alternative theory that the gun was “missing” and a danger to “12 year olds”. (Possibly an alternative source/reason for the CPS call and reason for MB to haul down to the house to demand LK give the gun back?). Specifically the offered theory is one that would exonerate MB from one of the possible scenarios of the shooting: he grabbed RC’s gun from where she kept it and drove down to shoot LK specifically. That scenario doesn’t suggest that the gun was missing nor a danger to 12 year olds as LK’s claim suggests as the reason for the negligence.

I guess the strength of this case is going to depend on how much the DA is relying on LK/RG’s testimony vs “evidence”.

[eggbutt]

@Sdel

I guess the strength of this case is going to depend on how much the DA is relying on LK/RG’s testimony vs “evidence”.

Exactly…their record of honesty is definitely lacking, at least on SM.

[3PonyFarm]

It was me that had the question about the dates of RC’s charge versus the date of the shooting.

The question about the missing gun came from the screenshot someone provided of RC’s facebook page and LK’s reply to her.

The website is listed on the top of the second screenshot if you want to look up the charge on it.