Is it well known that all dressage practices rollkur? How do you dispute?
. But tell me⊠would you have thought it was humane to see someone yanking, pulling and hitting a horse that wanted to (in the eyes of someone not knowing what is going on) lay down?
Missed this somehow. To answer:
What you describe may or may not be humane. It depends on context. Taking such measures while awaiting the vet in case of colic is one thing. Taking such measures because a horse has been overworked is quite another.
I pride myself on taking exceptional care of my horses, but that doesnât mean someone who knows nothing about horses can interpret everything I do as good care. I have had neighborhoods question me. I did once have someone call animal control on me.
These types of events make me happy. It means that other people care enough about animals to try to make sure mine are well cared for. I welcome questions. I have no trouble supporting what I do with the professionals in my animalsâ lives. By building relationships with this attitude, my neighbors donât have to wonder from from the window. They can come on over and talk to me.
People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.
. Is it well known that all dressage practices rollkur? How do you dispute?
With education. Rollkur is a great example that inhumnane âtrainingâ methods exist, and are sometimes not regulated due to âpoliticsâ. These methods exist in all Equine disciplines, dog training, etc.
The bad makes a comparison for the good.
[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;8660272]
Missed this somehow. To answer:
What you describe may or may not be humane. It depends on context. Taking such measures while awaiting the vet in case of colic is one thing. Taking such measures because a horse has been overworked is quite another.
I pride myself on taking exceptional care of my horses, but that doesnât mean someone who knows nothing about horses can interpret everything I do as good care. I have had neighborhoods question me. I did once have someone call animal control on me.
These types of events make me happy. It means that other people care enough about animals to try to make sure mine are well cared for. I welcome questions. I have no trouble supporting what I do with the professionals in my animalsâ lives. By building relationships with this attitude, my neighbors donât have to wonder from from the window. They can come on over and talk to me.
People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.[/QUOTE]
Like I said before, calling animal control if you think something is wrong is a good thing.
Making up exaggerations and making huge blanket statements about abuse is not OK.
My point is that a person like the OP driving by while I was fighting with my horse to save his life probably would have been aghasted by what was happening, right there, in front of them. How dare we abuse a horse like that.
I can totally picture a person driving by going on to their forum, one not about horses, making a thread about what a horrible person I am and all those people wanting to lynch me. All because they not only do not know what was truly going on but they have limited horse knowledge.
The few people there who know about horses would pipe up and say âwell maybe the horse was colicky and they were waiting for the vetâ and all the others would call them meanies for supporting animal abuse.
It has been very clearly pointed out here what was most likely wrong with this cow. Even the OPâs posts support the cow was not being ignored and left to die. But no, people who know not enough about the proper care of a cow are still screaming abuse.
I wonder how people would expect one to get a down cow inside with out causing more trauma to the cow and with out doing more âabusiveâ things to it (using an evil tractor).
It sounds like what was wrong here was something that a little bit of supportive care (food and water) and time fixes. But some how pointing that out makes us people who think abusing an animal is OK.
[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;8660236]
Those numbers donât tell the whole story. The average size of farm has more than doubled since the 1980s and corporate farming is more and more prevalent. For example, many chicken producers are under contract from Perdue, Tyson, etc. One farmer may operate his own houses, but the way by which he operates is 100% controlled by those companies. Heck, lots of poultry houses in the US are owned by Chinese companies now. Theyâve been buying into Big Ag for years. The same is true with other parts of the industry.
It is also well known that there are many commercial feedlots that âfinishâ cattle from small farmers under horrific conditions.[/QUOTE]
Wait so now it is small farmers who have horrific conditions. I thought it was just those factory farms.
[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;8660281]
With education. Rollkur is a great example that inhumnane âtrainingâ methods exist, and are sometimes not regulated due to âpoliticsâ. These methods exist in all Equine disciplines, dog training, etc.
The bad makes a comparison for the good.[/QUOTE]
But I donât really think that âallâ dressage does this - what if someone starts stating that itâs everywhere, the masses believe it and you find yourself accused of practicing something you never did?
I donât have a problem with the five freedoms as a concept but I think a lot of people donât understand how to apply them to species they donât understand.
- Freedom from Hunger and Thirst â by ready access to fresh water and a diet to maintain full health and vigour.
-
Freedom from Discomfort â by providing an appropriate environment including shelter and a comfortable resting area.
-
Freedom from Pain, Injury or Disease â by prevention or rapid diagnosis and treatment.
-
Freedom to Express Normal Behaviour â by providing sufficient space, proper facilities and company of the animalâs own kind.
-
Freedom from Fear and Distress â by ensuring conditions and treatment which avoid mental suffering.
I also look forward to a day when all humans get to live in such bliss.
[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;8660244]
See, what you refuse to see is that many of us DO know something about animal husbandry. That is how we KNOW what is humane and what isnât.
I guess It comes down to this: do you (meaning everyone) agree with the 5 freedoms for farm animals posted on page 3 of this thread?[/QUOTE]
Is it humane to move or lift a down cow with a tractor? Donât answer after having read our posts here, answer how you would have answered before you read that information.
Oh, and if you canât answer that in a âbeforeâ sense, Iâll give you a few more questions:
Is it ever humane for a man to use his knees to âpunchâ a cow on one side of her spine?
Is it ever humane to chase a cow into a metal chute, lift her by her chest so her front legs dangle and then tie her legs to the chute and take a grinder to her feet?
Is it ever humane to tie a cowâs head to her gaskin?
Is it ever humane to trap a cowâs head between metal pipes?
Is it ever humane to force a 2â long metal tube down a cowâs throat?
Is it ever humane to tip and cow and roll her onto her back?
Is it ever humane to, well I could go on, but that will probably suffice for now.
And yes, I DO agree with the five freedoms. Anyone who doesnât probably doesnât want to make much money off their production animals, whether thatâs meat or milk. The exception would be range kept animals where you simply cannot control pain and fear to the point of them being minimal 365 days/year.
If youâd like an explanation for each and every one of the above scenarios, let me know and when I check back in, Iâll be happy to answer you if someone else hasnât already chimed in to do so.
[QUOTE=ThreeFigs;8659923]
If the tide is turning to kinder treatment of the animals we eat, Iâm fine with that. In the long run, itâs good economics for the livestock producer. Fewer dark cutters, healthier animals that produce better quality meat.[/QUOTE]
Well, but most of the fervent activists donât want any animals being eaten.
No matter what it wonât be uncruel.
[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;8660281]
With education. Rollkur is a great example that inhumnane âtrainingâ methods exist, and are sometimes not regulated due to âpoliticsâ. These methods exist in all Equine disciplines, dog training, etc.
The bad makes a comparison for the good.[/QUOTE]
:lol:
You know that a lot of folks who are familiar with horses but not dressage believe that way of riding is inhumane?! And I am not talking about the Queen of Pepperonies.
And itâs BS that rollkur is a good training tool.
At least not in the hands of most dressage riders.
And most dressage riders have used it in the last 2 decadesâŠ
On another board I follow devoted to horse art, someone posted a video of a cute little Welsh stallion doing a third or fourth level test. Anyway nice collected way of going, no sign at all of overcollection or false collection. People on there jumped in to say how cruel his way if going was. And these were people with at least some horse background. I found that really strange, to think that a horse in a classical carriage would be considered cruel.
I had to use my tractor and bucket to get my horse up, that was helplessly cast in deep snowâŠand thank God every day that I did, when I see him out grazing now!
[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;8660236]
Those numbers donât tell the whole story. The average size of farm has more than doubled since the 1980s and corporate farming is more and more prevalent. For example, many chicken producers are under contract from Perdue, Tyson, etc. One farmer may operate his own houses, but the way by which he operates is 100% controlled by those companies. Heck, lots of poultry houses in the US are owned by Chinese companies now. Theyâve been buying into Big Ag for years. The same is true with other parts of the industry.
It is also well known that there are many commercial feedlots that âfinishâ cattle from small farmers under horrific conditions.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but most of those are family corporations. They incorporated for tax and/or inheritance purposes. I live in Arkansas, home of Tyson and one of the largest poulo producing states in the union . I donât believe there are many Chinese chicken farmers in northeast Arkansas. Most broiler houses are on small farms that run a combination of beef cattle and chickens. They are complementary operations. The broilers provide a stable source of income plus the used litter can provide fertilizer for pastures and hay meadows or it can be ensiled and used for feed.
Uhoh must be a Tax loopholeâŠ
Everyone needs to research inheritance tax on farms. It is downright scary for someone with deepbties to the land. . If my parents hadnât put the farm in a trust, I would have no choice but to sell the majority of it in order to pay taxes when the time comes.
But back to the original topic- What happened to the down cow??
We may never know - due to the tone of some of these postsâŠ
[QUOTE=roseymare;8660584]
On another board I follow devoted to horse art, someone posted a video of a cute little Welsh stallion doing a third or fourth level test. Anyway nice collected way of going, no sign at all of overcollection or false collection. People on there jumped in to say how cruel his way if going was. And these were people with at least some horse background. I found that really strange, to think that a horse in a classical carriage would be considered cruel.[/QUOTE]
I had a trail rider ask me one time âhow to train the horses to do thatâ in terms of dressage. I doubt she believed me when I told her that it was already there, just needed t be refined.
[QUOTE=Alagirl;8660525]
:lol:
You know that a lot of folks who are familiar with horses but not dressage believe that way of riding is inhumane?! And I am not talking about the Queen of Pepperonies.
And itâs BS that rollkur is a good training tool.
At least not in the hands of most dressage riders.
And most dressage riders have used it in the last 2 decadesâŠ[/QUOTE]
No no no most dressage riders have never used rollkur. Not sure where you came up with that idea.
[QUOTE=Brookes;8660748]
No no no most dressage riders have never used rollkur. Not sure where you came up with that idea.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for noticing. 
But I canât help myself when absolutes and hyperbole is thrown around, like âmostâ farmers abusing their animals.
but way too many resorted to it. it and cank cavesonsâŠbut you are right, not âmostâ
