That still does not escape the fact that someone with binoculars could accuse you of beating your dressage horse because you have a whip and he was frothing at the mouth.
I can understand venting but not going and on with out any other kind of update.
See the posts on waterboarding the horse - very different outcome since it could be verified.
Guessing the cow is up and taking nourishment now, which does not fit in with OPâs insistence she was âdyingâ and her owner is a big mean poopie head.
Red Barn, look in the mirror if you want to see some smugness. Iâm married to a vegan guy. Iâm a beef-eating ranch gal. Iâm super sympathetic to animals, livestock included. I donât like to see any creature suffer needlessly. Dairy cows that are handled every day will react to human intervention differently than a beef range cow. We donât know which type this cow was.
If the tide is turning to kinder treatment of the animals we eat, Iâm fine with that. In the long run, itâs good economics for the livestock producer. Fewer dark cutters, healthier animals that produce better quality meat.
[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;8659912]
The fact that anyone objects to humane treatment of all animals is shocking.[/QUOTE]
No one objects to humane treatment of animals!
But tell me⊠would you have thought it was humane to see someone yanking, pulling and hitting a horse that wanted to (in the eyes of someone not knowing what is going on) lay down?
[QUOTE=Red Barn;8659899]
But none that grandiose bullshit is actually the point, is it?
The point is that this particular subset of CotHers will instantly leap from their gestation crates and viciously attack anybody discussing any maltreatment of any livestock animal anywhere - hoping, I suppose, that bullying and humiliation will somehow change evolving public sentiment.
Do you really think this wins converts?
I donât think so. I think the only reason people donât argue with you more often is that the entire cackling herd is apparently on speed dial, and nobody wants the terrible treatment inflicted on the OP.[/QUOTE]
Do you really think cursing up a blue streak and being exceedingly rude and obnoxious does?
[QUOTE=Red Barn;8659746]
I think youâll find that the general public is becoming less and less amenable to the idea that livestock is infinitely abuseable âpropertyâ.[/QUOTE]
And this general public attitude is coming from people that are completely clueless about the species that they are concerned about.
What may constitute âabuseâ (whatever that is) for one species may not even be close and sometimes, as pointed out, necessary for another species⊠even a beloved, very humanely treated cowâŠ
^ And if all thatâs so, then you can easily explain the truth in a sentence or two, just as a reasonable horse person explains the protocols for colic, or the purpose of fly masks, or any other thing that non-horse people might bring up . . . right?
Itâs only the factory end of the ag industry that refuses to do this, and instead falls back on ag gag laws, smear campaigns, attacks on the consumer base, and, of course, the kind of petty, nasty. bullying behavior we see right here.
[QUOTE=Red Barn;8660036]
^ And if all thatâs so, you can easily explain the truth in a sentence or two, just as a reasonable horse person explains protocols for colic, or the purpose of fly masks, or any other thing that non-horse people might mention . . . right?[/QUOTE]
A person can not explain if not asked.
A person can also not explain away exaggerated or made up issues.
[QUOTE=Red Barn;8660036]
^ And if all thatâs so, then you can easily explain the truth in a sentence or two, just as a reasonable horse person explains the protocols for colic, or the purpose of fly masks, or any other thing that non-horse people might bring up . . . right?
Itâs only the factory end of the ag industry that refuses to do this, and instead falls back on ag gag laws, smear campaigns, attacks on the consumer base, and, of course, the kind of petty, nasty. bullying behavior we see right here.[/QUOTE]
Here is a link you may find useful
http://www.nadis.org.uk/bulletins/calving-module/calving-part-3-nerve-damage.aspx
If you scroll down to âTibial Nerveâ You find a cow that looks like the description of OP âhunching and shuffling forwardâŠâ
Note that the prescribed treatment is
âŠNONE. Just time.
While it may be difficult to watch, it doesnât mean the cow is a hopeless candidate for Euth.
Unless you are of the painless death is better than pain before recovery mindset.
[QUOTE=Red Barn;8660036]
^ And if all thatâs so, then you can easily explain the truth in a sentence or two, just as a reasonable horse person explains the protocols for colic, or the purpose of fly masks, or any other thing that non-horse people might bring up . . . right?
Itâs only the factory end of the ag industry that refuses to do this, and instead falls back on ag gag laws, smear campaigns, attacks on the consumer base, and, of course, the kind of petty, nasty. bullying behavior we see right here.[/QUOTE]
The OP never asked! So the farmer never had the opportunity to explain.
I am pro conventional ag and would encourage anyone to ask about the steps taken to improve animal welfare over past several decades.
Ag-gag laws arenât about hiding anything untoward, rather protecting against video being taken out of context (ie the colicing horse becomes a video of show people beating their horses). There have even been cases where the undercover filmers intentionally created situations to depict abuse. Are there cases where undercover filming exposed abuse, yesâŠbecause there are crappy people in every industry and walk of lifeâŠbut it has also been abused by organizations that aim to end animal production rather than improve animal welfare.
ETA - impossible to comment on the status of this cow based on the info given, but while I am in the pro-ag camp I am not in the livestock are property hence owner can do whatever they want. The op was perfectly justified in her concern, itâs the approach the op took that I donât agree with. Step 1, talk to the farmer.
[QUOTE=Red Barn;8660036âŠItâs only the
factory end of the ag industry that refuses to do this, and instead falls back on ag gag laws, smear campaigns, attacks on the consumer base, and, of course, the kind of petty, nasty. bullying behavior we see right here.[/QUOTE]
Could you please describe and show me what a âfactory farmâ is???
Raised by a 5th generation ag family, married to a 5th gen ag family, attended a major ag school, lived in and traveled thru ag areas all over the country, and I STILL have not seen a âfactory farmâ.
Where are factory farms hiding?
[QUOTE=Red Barn;8660036]
âŠItâs only the factory end of the ag industry that refuses to do this, and instead falls back on ag gag laws, smear campaigns, attacks on the consumer base, and, of course, the kind of petty, nasty. bullying behavior we see right here.[/QUOTE]
Could you please describe and show me what a âfactory farmâ is???
Raised by a 5th generation ag family, married to a 5th gen ag family, attended a major ag school, lived in and traveled thru ag areas all over the country, and I STILL have not seen a âfactory farmâ.
Where are factory farms hiding?
[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;8659912]
That may well be, but it will probably come from a cow who was actually treated humanely instead of the awful conditions so many suffer with now.
The fact that anyone objects to humane treatment of all animals is shocking.
There is no difference between pets and livestock. These are merely arbitrary designations assigned by people.
Let me state what should be so obvious: ALL animals are animals. Calling a cow âlivestockâ doesnât change anything. And all animals deserve humane treatment whether they wind up on your plate, in the show ring, or sleeping at the foot of your bed.[/QUOTE]
I am not sure what awful conditions with beef cattle you are referring to. Feedlots?
What Red Barn does not realize is that 97% of all farm in the US are family owned and operated.
[QUOTE=cutter99;8660111]
What Red Barn does not realize is that 97% of all farm in the US are family owned and operated.[/QUOTE]
But but but they are evil corporationsâŠfarmers are supposed to do things like they did in the 1900âs
[QUOTE=cutter99;8660111]
What Red Barn does not realize is that 97% of all farm in the US are family owned and operated.[/QUOTE]
Last time I checked something approaching 5% of the U.S. population lived on farms. That means 95% does not. This doesnât mean the 95% is wrong on any given ag. issue, only that they donât live with the issue and itâs consequences. Thus they can advocate for all manner of âpie in the skyâ stuff that sounds mondo kool but doesnât work.
G.
Family Farms are the Focus of New Agriculture Census Data
97 Percent of All U.S. Farms are Family-Owned, USDA Reports
WASHINGTON, March 17, 2015 â The U.S. Department of Agricultureâs National Agricultural Statistics Service (NASS) reports that family-owned farms remain the backbone of the agriculture industry. The latest data come from the Census of Agriculture farm typology report and help shine light on the question, âWhat is a family farm?â
âAs we wrap up mining the 6 million data points from the latest Census of Agriculture, we used typology to further explore the demographics of who is farming and ranching today,â said NASS Statistics Division Director Hubert Hamer. âWhat we found is that family-owned businesses, while very diverse, are at the core of the U.S. agriculture industry. In fact, 97 percent of all U.S. farms are family-owned.â
The 2012 Census of Agriculture Farm Typology report is a special data series that primarily focuses on the âfamily farm.â By definition, a family farm is any farm where the majority of the business is owned by the operator and individuals related to the operator, including through blood, marriage, or adoption. Key highlights from the report include the following five facts about family farms in the United States:
Five Facts to Know about Family Farms
Food equals family â 97 percent of the 2.1 million farms in the United States are family-owned operations.
Small business matters â 88 percent of all U.S. farms are small family farms.
Local connections come in small packages â 58 percent of all direct farm sales to consumers come from small family farms.
Big business matters too â 64 percent of all vegetable sales and 66 percent of all dairy sales come from the 3 percent of farms that are large or very large family farms.
Farming provides new beginnings â 18 percent of principal operators on family farms in the U.S. started within the last 10 years.
âWhether small or large - on the East Coast, West Coast, or the Midwest - family farms produce food and fiber for people all across the U.S. and the world,â said Hamer. âItâs due in part to information such as this from the Census of Agriculture that we can help show the uniqueness and importance of U.S. agriculture to rural communities, families, and the world.â
The 2012 Census of Agriculture Farm Typology report classifies all farms into unique categories based on three criteria: who owns the operation, whether farming is the principal operatorâs primary occupation, and gross cash farm cash income (GCFI). Small family farms have GCFI less than $350,000; midsize family farms have GCFI from $350,000 to $999,999; and large family farms have GCFI of $1 million or more. Small farms are further divided based on whether the principal operator works primarily on or off the farm.
To access all the data products from the Census typology report, including Highlights, infographics and maps, visit www.agcensus.usda.gov.
To learn more demographic data about women farmers, join a USDA Google+ Hangout on March 18, 2015 at 2 PM Eastern by visiting www.usda.gov/live.
[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;8659912]
The fact that anyone objects to humane treatment of all animals is shocking.[/QUOTE]
I think the only ones on this thread objecting to anything are those of us objecting to wilful ignorance about animal husbandry. Oh, and those objecting to having their feewings hurwted by the big meanies who actually know something about animal husbandry and will call a spade a shovel and not go naming it a delicate runcible spoon when it comes to someone possibly getting confused by a scenario because they know nothing about raising, maintaining, nursing, or putting down cows. (do I win an award for worst run-on sentence? lol)
But I could be wrong. I totally could be objecting to humane treatment of all animals without even knowing it!
Those numbers donât tell the whole story. The average size of farm has more than doubled since the 1980s and corporate farming is more and more prevalent. For example, many chicken producers are under contract from Perdue, Tyson, etc. One farmer may operate his own houses, but the way by which he operates is 100% controlled by those companies. Heck, lots of poultry houses in the US are owned by Chinese companies now. Theyâve been buying into Big Ag for years. The same is true with other parts of the industry.
It is also well known that there are many commercial feedlots that âfinishâ cattle from small farmers under horrific conditions.
[QUOTE=Dressagelvr;8660236]
It is also well known that there are many commercial feedlots that âfinishâ cattle from small farmers under horrific conditions.[/QUOTE]
Well known?
PS - you have not answered the question I asked you above. Let me quote it here for you so you can answer it, in case you missed it.
But tell me⊠would you have thought it was humane to see someone yanking, pulling and hitting a horse that wanted to (in the eyes of someone not knowing what is going on) lay down?
. Oh, and those objecting to having their feewings hurwted by the big meanies who actually know something about animal husbandry
See, what you refuse to see is that many of us DO know something about animal husbandry. That is how we KNOW what is humane and what isnât.
I guess It comes down to this: do you (meaning everyone) agree with the 5 freedoms for farm animals posted on page 3 of this thread?
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