Color of Light, thank you for caring about a helpless animal. There seem to be a few here who want to attack you for caring. The same happened to me awhile back when a dead horse was filmed in a pasture during extreme winter weather and I posted about it, hoping there was someone in the area to help with the remaining animals. I was immediately attacked as though I was overreacting, when in fact, some of the remaining animals were then surrendered to a rescue due to the attention that was focused on them. They received badly needed care they might not have gotten otherwise. Just follow your instincts, COL, and ignore the negativity.
[QUOTE=RodeoFTW;8664305]
Ascpa will seize neglected and abused animals. They also will take the owner to court if thereâs a criminal case.[/QUOTE]
A slight nit. Any type of âASCPAâ canât press criminal charges with LE being involved. They have no legal standing in a criminal case on their own. They may assist in the seizure if one is approved. It would depend on the âascpaâ (as ASCPA is an actual organization which may or may not be involved in the seizure of livestock).
[QUOTE=WhereâsMyWhite;8664667]
A slight nit. Any type of âASCPAâ canât press criminal charges with LE being involved. They have no legal standing in a criminal case on their own. They may assist in the seizure if one is approved. It would depend on the âascpaâ (as ASCPA is an actual organization which may or may not be involved in the seizure of livestock).[/QUOTE]
They will get the LE involved if a vet thinks there is abuse and the case manager thinks there is reason to press charges.
Regardless, if thereâs one available in the region, it would make sense to see if they will involve themselves so the cow can be cared for.
If not, there are other avenues to take.
Thanks op for trying to do something.
Itâs ridiculous some of the responses.
Thanks op for trying to do something.
Itâs ridiculous some of the responses.
[QUOTE=sascha;8664515]
How long does it take for a âcaring ownerâ to check a calved out cow? Should it be longer than your bathroom break? Or have you been wearing Depends this last week so you donât have to take them :lol:
It doesnât take long to check a cow. They are either well and fine. Sick and needing attention which doesnât take a long time, because fawning over and wringing hands about it does nothing for a farmer that GASP has other things to do on the property. Life canât stop for a sick cow. Oh, I digressed for a second, or, the cow is sick or lame with little to do but offer Dr. Green, Tincture of Time, steroids, and anti-inflammatories. Dosing a cow with banamine and dexamethasone takes but moments in a 24 hour period.
Although I too disagree with pulling a calf with a tractor, I canât out of hand disagree with the way the cow is being treated for her illness or injury without having a whole lot more information and a whole lot less emotion.
A cow without water for 6 days is deadstock. Iâm sorry, but some of your information isnât, canât possibly be, accurate.
I hope the cow recovers, but am doubtful. Iâm reasonably certain from the bit of information that you give between hand wringings that a cow in that shape would be shot or euthanized at my workplace. It doesnât make economic sense to keep a crippled cow around. And with that, ack, your livestock shipping laws are outdated. The owner may be waiting for her to recover just enough (and/or expel any meds from her system) to send to slaughter. On this side of the border we have laws that prevent that particular brand of cruelty. Sadly those laws havenât drifted south of the border just yet.
If it is calving paralysis, it can take weeks for recovery. Any sort of nerve damage is a crap shoot. Iâve seen radial nerve paralysis in an older cow (who knows what happened in the barn between the hours of midnight and 3:30am) who I was sure was a goner. Nope, she got a loader (yes, in a large FEL on a GASP tractor and lemme tell ya, getting a down cow into a loader is not a pretty, nor fun thing to have to do) ride to a hospital pen in another part of the barn and recovered fully in a couple of weeks. You just canât always tell with cows. They are tough and also at time terribly fragile.[/QUOTE]
Well, that depends now doesnât it? :lol: No, not that day. I pee like a race horseâŠ2 minutes or less. That guy can neither walk down that hill that quickly, nor drive his tractor down there that fast. So no, I didnât miss it. :winkgrin:
Uhhhh, the calf was dead. And you suggest leaving it until it fell out??? She was practically dead with it stuck inside her. I originally thought it was a dead cow in his pasture that he was approaching with his tractor. Instead, he pulled a dead calf out of her, hauled it away, and never went back down the hill to check on her. I know, because I watched. Who knows how long sheâd been laying there with a calf stuck in her, poor thing. I was working at my computer the rest of the day, right in front of my window open facing that cow. I am very aware of what did and did not happen.:yes: (I actually have ears and can hear. I actually have eyes, and peripheral vision (I am a rider with 40 plus years under my beltâŠI think people who are actually real riders have a sharp sense of there surroundings. Maybe you donât, but I certainly do).
No where did I say that she did not get ANY water during those 6 days. You might want to go back and read.
[QUOTE=Haybert;8664681]
Thanks op for trying to do something.
Itâs ridiculous some of the responses.[/QUOTE]
You are welcome. I care a lot about animals.
I agree!
[QUOTE=downen;8664581]
Color of Light, thank you for caring about a helpless animal. There seem to be a few here who want to attack you for caring. The same happened to me awhile back when a dead horse was filmed in a pasture during extreme winter weather and I posted about it, hoping there was someone in the area to help with the remaining animals. I was immediately attacked as though I was overreacting, when in fact, some of the remaining animals were then surrendered to a rescue due to the attention that was focused on them. They received badly needed care they might not have gotten otherwise. Just follow your instincts, COL, and ignore the negativity.[/QUOTE]
You are welcome! I know. And hear I thought all the people were animal lovers here, just like me.
That is so wrong and sad that you were attacked for âover reactingâ about a dead horse and other horses in need. Simply wrong. Good for you for saying something which lead to getting help for the others.
What exactly do you want done, COL? What is the treatment you are referring to? Do you want her hauled to a vet hospital (not likely to happen, nor would anyone reasonably demand this of a cattleman)? Do want a vet out to look at her? Do you have proof that one hasnât already? How do you know she hasnât gotten antibiotics (for the dead calf) and steroid shots (that usually helps downed cattle get up by reducing swelling)? Do you want her on painkillers? Two issues with that. One, they have limited effectiveness in cattle. Two, if they intend to slaughter the cow for beef, if she doesnât make it, well, there are withdrawal times and warnings with many drugs. If one of my cows were down, the vet might have me pick up the shots without even needing to come out to see for himself/herself. The main issue here is that your neighbor may be perfectly within the law in regards to treatment of cattle. Unless your state is unusual, he should be. It may not be how you would do it (or even how I would do it-impossible to tell) but it sounds perfectly legal for him to do minimal care and minimal expense for this animal. His wait and see method may also be within his rights. Iâm not telling you to lay off, but you should familiarize yourself with livestock laws in your state before pursuing further.
Poking with a stick is to get her up, or see how willing she is to get up. I worked on ranches to gain experience before getting my own cattle and sometimes you do everything you can to get a cow on her feet, including rolling her, shoving her, dragging her feet around, and pushing her. They need to try to get her up however they can or she never will. However, it sounds like she is getting up on her own and hobbling around.
Thank goodness none of my cows have ever had an issue with paralysis from calving (we raise a breed with a very low dystocia rate). It can be very difficult to treat and take time to recover.
In regards to any membranes you might be looking at. Cattle are different than horses. We had a cow we bought that was bred AI to a really good bull. Unfortunately, she slipped the calf at 6 months. I never saw the calf (something must have dragged it off). We gave her shots to help her pass the placenta, but it took over two weeks for it all to finally come out. She looked pretty messy for awhile, with membranes hanging out of her back end. It finally came out on itâs own. We did have the vet out and her in a chute for an exam and the vet opted not to pull it. I know horsemen get very concerned about retained placentas. I have to show you a diagram to show you why this isnât the same in cattle. (I donât know this blogger, but she has good pictures).
https://theadventuresofbecky.wordpress.com/category/bovine-club/
We treated Buttercup with injections (I seriously doubt any of the neighbors saw either the vet or me treating her). We separated her from the bull to recover and then put her back in with him after a few months, and she bred right back for a normal calf this year.
COL, I know some folks have expressed opinions about you as a neighbor to this cattleman, but I wouldnât mind you being my neighbor at all. I would be happy to explain anything to you. I love cattle and Iâd really enjoy teaching someone about them. They are unique animals. I also know that my neighbor would have my back if anything was going on in the pasture when I wasnât watching. 
Please proceed with caution on using the media. From the publicâs standpoint, we are all lumped together; cattlemen, horsepeople, small livestock people⊠This sort of story leaves a bad taste in the mouth of the general public and could have bad consequences on trail access for horseback riders and zoning for farms in the future.
Whatever you decide to do, please, for the sake of good farmers in your area, just keep it among yourself and the authorities.
[QUOTE=Haybert;8664681]
Thanks op for trying to do something.
Itâs ridiculous some of the responses.[/QUOTE]
Beyond ridiculous.
But the fact that so few people are apparently willing to stand up to counter this kind of clear and obvious bullying is even worse. Puts me off the entire forum.
Best of luck to you, OP. You sound like a person with real gumption.
[QUOTE=Color of Light;8664754]
Well, that depends now doesnât it? :lol: No, not that day. I pee like a race horseâŠ2 minutes or less. That guy can neither walk down that hill that quickly, nor drive his tractor down there that fast. So no, I didnât miss it. :winkgrin:
Uhhhh, the calf was dead. And you suggest leaving it until it fell out??? She was practically dead with it stuck inside her. I originally thought it was a dead cow in his pasture that he was approaching with his tractor. Instead, he pulled a dead calf out of her, hauled it away, and never went back down the hill to check on her. I know, because I watched. Who knows how long sheâd been laying there with a calf stuck in her, poor thing. I was working at my computer the rest of the day, right in front of my window open facing that cow. I am very aware of what did and did not happen.:yes: (I actually have ears and can hear. I actually have eyes, and peripheral vision (I am a rider with 40 plus years under my beltâŠI think people who are actually real riders have a sharp sense of there surroundings. Maybe you donât, but I certainly do).
No where did I say that she did not get ANY water during those 6 days. You might want to go back and read.[/QUOTE]
Wow, so 24/7 watching your neighbourâs pasture. Thatâs um, impressive.
Nowhere did I say the calf should be left in the cow. I said the use of a tractor to pull the calf (dead or alive) should have been avoided. It has to do with the direction of the pull. There is an optimal angle which can be achieved by calf pullers and not so much with a tractor.
[QUOTE=Red Barn;8664789]
Beyond ridiculous.
But the fact that so few people are apparently willing to stand up to counter this kind of clear and obvious bullying is even worse. Puts me off the entire forum.
Best of luck to you, OP. You sound like a person with real gumption.[/QUOTE]
Clearly our definitions of âgumptionâ differ. Using a phone is not gumption. Taking action is gumption. It appears as though she finally did speak to the owner - or did she? - that is gumption. Too many of us hide behind our cell phones and the anonyminity of the internet.
[QUOTE=RodeoFTW;8663403]
Yes. Which is why I donât go to them. You shouldnât make assumptions about me from a username, I donât even ride western.[/QUOTE]
Then why on earth would youâŠoh NMâŠ
[QUOTE=MoonWitch;8664900]
Then why on earth would youâŠoh NMâŠ[/QUOTE]
Moonwitch - Iâm going to change my user name to Sport Horse Queen since I loathe them with most of my being. 
Can I change mine to Big Bull?
Iâm just going to relate to a story that happened to me. I had four very plump, happy barn cats. A lady riding by the barn one day, took it upon her self to notice my cats and call me later. She informed me (on voicemail) that my cats were all âhorribly pregnantâ and if I didnât intend on doing something, she would be happy to come gather them up and take care of the problem. I called her back to politely decline since three of the four were males and all were already neutered. :eek:
Just sayinââŠ
Iâm still shaking my head at the thought of OP surveilling the neighborâs farm 24/7 with binoculars. You donât sleep? You donât walk away to prepare yourself a sandwich? It only takes you 2 minutes to pee??? You havenât left your home at all in the past 2 weeks??? There is literally NO way you are watching this cow round-the-clock with no breaks and no chance for the cowâs owner to have done something you might have missed.
If youâre going to sit here and claim there is NO chance for you to have missed something, then it means you must have security cameras trained at this downed cow for the brief moments you step away from your window. Otherwise, I call bulls***.
Sorry, OP⊠While I agree that your heart is in the right place, you are really coming off as bit of a creeper.
[QUOTE=Color of Light;8664296]
Sheâs alive but crippled now. Not sure theyâd be able to do much.[/QUOTE]
This animals suffering needs to end⊠Now. The farmer should go out and just put the cow down. It is a part of farming, its a part of life.
[QUOTE=OTTB_;8665065]
This animals suffering needs to end⊠Now. The farmer should go out and just put the cow down. It is a part of farming, its a part of life.[/QUOTE]
If she is improving why? Do you want every injured horse or dog euthanized as well? Let me tell you there are many many people who love their dogs who let them live on a degree of pain. I am sure you can find evidence of that on this board even. How is that different? And before you say it we still donât know if he has had veterinarian contact.
