Is there a way, do you think, to get CL to actually prohibit the sales of dogs and other animals rather than just pretend that there is a rule about it?
I hear a lot of stories about people having “accidental” litters and after learning how much money they can sell their pups for, continue to populate the earth with ill-bred dogs or cats, or whatever animal. I think if CL didn’t make it so easy to do, there would certainly be less of it.
My complaint is you can’t even sell livestock in many places anymore. It’s ridiculous. The crazy animal rights people don’t want you selling poultry, rabbits, goats, HORSES, cattle, any live animal. The hoops you have to jump through to market a horse on Facebook are over the top. “Halter for sale, horse included”, spelling out the price “Ten thousand dollars or best offer”. Honestly, this whole “Craigslist shouldn’t allow animals for sale ads” is one step towards animal sales being banned, which is really extreme. Do we want to outlaw animal ownership? Craigslist just took the place of newspaper classified ads. Should all people who sell animals be reduced to word of mouth in the age of the internet? That seems foolish and very strange to me.
Well. I do think that the sale of animals should be regulated more strictly. I think that breeders of any animal should be licensed and required to adhere to health standards.
FB and CL make it too easy to sell animals. If you want to sell your horse, sell it on Dreamhorse. There are marketplaces online for animal sales. They don’t belong on FB. We are allowing puppy mills to thrive because it’s so easy for them to sell their pups.
The sentiment that that responsible breeding and selling practices is a slippery slope to ending pet ownership is silly.
No one goes on Dreamhorse anymore. Facebook is local and where everyone in the local horse community networks…everything.
Puppymills sell to pet stores or through their own online websites. You’re not going to shut down puppymills by making it impossible for a poultry hobby breeder to sell their chicks on Facebook. Or Craigslist.
Sketchy dog sellers are obvious on Facebook because of the platform and don’t survive. People don’t tolerate stupid and cruel for very long. They are flagged and removed. Isn’t that good?
And what’s the difference between selling a dog or selling a goat? Or a chicken or a hog. If you can no longer buy a dog, that’s the end of pet ownership.
Who would be in charge of licensing breeders? What makes this hypothetical person or entity the authority on what’s right and ethical? What’s to stop this hypothetical entity from becoming entirely corporate and refusing licenses to everyone but, say, Proctor and Gamble? So P&G starts breeding dogs (or horses or cattle or cats, oh gosh) and selling them since they have the market cornered. They can pay all the license fees you want. The dogs are still living in cages and bred frequently. People will still buy dogs but now niche hobby breeders of rare breeds will be shut out and shut down.
Intentional crossbreeds are a thing. Who’s to say that’s wrong? All of the AKC breeds in existence today started as intentional crossbreeds and every year the AKC recognizes some other random “breed” that up until that moment, was just a designer dog.
Who is the authority on who is a proper pet owner and therefore allowed to breed and who isn’t? If not you then who? This is America. We already license kennels. They are already subject to inspections and standards. If a kennel indiscriminately breeds their dogs because there is a market for them, but houses them properly and feeds them sufficiently and vets them as needed, they are above board. Who are you or I to say it’s improper? Lots of people want the product, so someone will produce it and sell it. All hail capitalism.
Don’t get me wrong, I think the vast majority of the public are pathetic dog owners. If you don’t do anything with your dog but have it as a pet laying around the house, I think that’s a pretty miserable life of confinement. But who am I to judge? I just do right by my own and that’s what matters. Live and let live except in cases of obvious gross criminal cruelty. I focus on my own animals that, thankfully, I’m still allowed to “own”.
Regardless, if you want to find backyard type puppymill sellers, go to Hoobly classifieds. Craigslist is nothing. Case in point, shut down Craigslst, another will pop up. And another and another. Because there’s a market. People want pets. One could argue people really need pets. And pets need people, they cannot care for themselves. The rescue groups are doing a great job of making themselves obsolete, so many threads on this board on the subject. Ridiculous, overbearing contracts, no call backs, false advertising, begging for donations and then refusing to “adopt” out, keeping dangerous, ill, and gravely injured animals alive for years wasting resources. Many chose to wash their hands of the nonsense, see no need to prove to any 3rd party that they are a worthy pet owner, get tired of jumping through hoops and getting the run around, and just go buy a dog in straight sale. Done.
Anyway, I think your heart is in the right place, but I think it’s worthy of further exploration. It’s not that easy and Craigslist, nor Facebook is not the perpetrator of cruelty.
They are not the perpetrator, they are the enabler. It should not be so easy to breed dogs. OR, spay and neuter should be mandatory.
Why? Why?
No really, why? Why should it be hard to breed dogs? They ship dogs from other countries into the US all the time because there is a demand for more and more dogs as pets, so there are clearly not enough dogs to meet demand already on the ground. Dogs live 10-15 years on average and one dog fancying person can own 10 or more dogs over their lifespan. Multiple dog owners can recall upwards of 20 beloved dogs in their lifetime. Should dogs be difficult to obtain? Should dogs only be allowed to be owned by the elite? Should poor people not be allowed to own dogs? Should we tighten the market so that dogs are a rare commodity obtainable only by certain people with the right connections?
If neutering were mandatory, how long until the above is true? 2 generations,3? What governing body should be given the authority to determine what dog gets to breed and why? How would mandatory neutering be enforced?
Dogs are personal property and it should stay that way. If I chose to breed my Titled mutt dog I should be subject to public shame–but then my trainer implored me to keep him intact because she thinks he’s something special and has talent that should have been passed on. No one at the dog club would have even raised an eyebrow if I had bred him. What governing body knows better then people who work and train in the sport their whole lives? I neutered him anyway but that was my choice.
That’s unrealistic and pointless. There are a lot of very good breeders and very good dogs. No need to mandate spay and neuter for all…because, you realize…there would be no more dogs.
Buyer education is the better option. It’s very frustrating to read posts on FB or even here - where people complain about the problems their poorly bred dog has, and then blame the “breeder” - who was exactly what they were looking for when they bought the puppy - someone that would sell them a puppy without judgment, without having to provide references, and for less money than a “fancy purebred dog.” Except those who bought designer crosses, and paid more for a mutt with no health testing or breeding criteria other than “ka-ching”. 
That makes sense.
Craigslist isn’t the problem. People are the problem. Unfortunately we can’t regulate “not being stupid or greedy.”
And what about people who no longer want their dog? I’d rather see them listed on CL than dumped in an overcrowded shelter where they’ll be euth’d in a week. Rescues are a nice thought, but it’s hard to get a dog enrolled, and most rescues would rather keep them forever than adopt them out because they seem to think no one is worthy of their dog. That’s no life!
If you want puppy mills reduced, go after the Amish.
Who is going to mandate, pay for and enforce this??
Mandatory? So you’d like to end all dog ownership all together?
Mandatory spay/neuter = NO dog ownership in about 15 years. Or, it just becomes something for the elite as they pay the bucks to import from other countries.
Seriously??? :rolleyes:
Lots of puppy mills are not run by Amish people. And lots of shitty breeders that aren’t puppy mills.
How to sort them out? That has to be the buyers. I am constantly astounded by the ignorance and sometimes just plain stupidity of people who buy puppies. It’s not as if dogs are uncommon (like…maybe hedgehogs?) and people are totally unaware of their needs for exercise, vet care, feeding, etc.
Not to mention, the average person walks around with a powerful computer in their hands all day long. Read and research for a few minutes before buying a living animal that will live 15 years, for Pete’s sake.
My original post states that breeders should be licensed. So there would be puppies, just not ill bred ones that have paws on the ground for the profit of a back yard breeder.
And who on earth do you think is going to do that? Who comes up with the regulations? Who pays for it?
“Ill bred” is a very nebulous concept. My definition of ill bred is probably different than your definition of ill bred is different than what the guy down the street thinks it is.
And why is profit the devil? Money makes the world go round and everyone has to get it somewhere.
Some people make their money off the backs of animals. I’d argue that makes them hypersensitive to providing the needs of those animals. Your animals are unhealthy or die, there goes your income.
If the dogs are properly housed, fed, and vetted the breeder is above board and the rest is none of anyone else’s business.
I bet a lot of internet finger pointers would say my dog was ill-bred. He’s Amish after all. Bought him from a dog broker. He’s also an AKC Titled agility dog and the absolute delight of my life. I’m very glad he was “ill-bred”, lol.
In fact, every dog I have ever owned in my life was what some of these folks would classify as “ill-bred”. I have loved every single one of them to pieces. One was even bought at a pet store. There was a time in my life when I never could have afforded a ‘well-bred’ dog. I suppose some would say I shouldn’t have owned a dog then. I have no kind words for that mentality.
What exactly is a “back yard” breeder??? Does someone just need to make up a ‘kennel name’ to move from back yard status to “legit” breeder?
All of my dogs over the last 35 years have come from small breeders that carefully, thoughtfully breed a litter and with the same care and thoughtfulness choose new homes (well, one I have now I’d almost class as rescue but that’s a different story). Maybe one or two litters a year. Maybe the bitch was bred 2-3 times before retiring her and moving on to the next generation.
I’m pretty sure the small breeders I have worked with over that same time are not rolling in the dough from their breeding activities.
Yeah, there are puppy mills but I’d also guess a lot of the unwanted puppies are coming from the owners Sswor whose dog is not neutered, running around and breeding whatever will hold still.
My comments in red.
Come again? Feel free to post what you like but you cannot pull stuff straight out of your rear end and have it go unanswered.
I am one of those ‘backyard breeders’ (or was). I bred good dogs, took care of them and had a loyal following for years.
This board has a strong vocal set who think that there is something very wrong with a family raised dog. I’m not talking about accidental ooopsies, or irresponsible people who let anything with the wherewithal to get pregnant and then sell them for the same price as a purebred dog.
My dogs were not ‘rescues’ or whatever the badge of honour is when you take in a dog from an organization that brings the dogs in from all over and finds homes for them.
In fact, my current dog (I’ll admit it) came from Kijiji - and she is a wonderful dog. Not to be recommended, tho, but the family was known.
OTOH I do not understand people who do not spay/neuter dog and let them run around willy nilly.
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