Well, I will probably be crucified for this, but believe it or not, there is still a market in rural areas for a good farm dog. Not an expensive, well bred dog- just a farm dog to do farm dog duties. I wanted such a dog, and yes, I looked at craig’s list ads. Luckily, a puppy litter was brought into a rescue that was also just what I was looking for, so I got one of those puppies. I like to think she has a great life - living large on the farm - and in the house. And she cost about the same as one of the craig’s list dogs. Not fancy bred, obviously - but so far she has been an awesome puppy. Craig’s list isn’t evil and neither are the “breeders” putting out good farm dogs for the area…
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Yes I’ve bought a few and they are my preference anymore. They can’t crucify all of us, not enough timber.
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Puppy mills don’t thrive because they can advertise on FB and CL. They thrive because there is a demand for cheap(er) (than $$$$ breeders) dogs that do not require 1,000 hoops and lifelong contracts (i.e. rescues) to jump through and are a “known” quantity (e.g. not pulled from a shelter, although we can debate the perception of the “known” quantity vs the reality for puppy mills).
As long as that demand is there, puppy mills aren’t going away. Texas has breeding laws on the books. The Houston pet overpopulation is still so huge that rescues/shelters routinely export busloads of dogs and cats to other areas in the country that are in a demand situation. Licensing and inspecting high-volume breeders hasn’t fixed that problem.
Consumer education on where to get a dog, what to look for in a breeder, how to train the dog as they move past the cute puppy stage, how to work through the possible issues of taking in an adult dog from a shelter vs. a cute puppy from your neighbor’s oops (or not so oops) litter, access to (and education about) low cost spay/neuter programs, etc, are going to go a lot further towards reducing the number of puppy mills and pet overpopulation in general than trying to legislate puppy mills away without addressing the real reason they exist–
There is a demand for what they provide.
As long as that demand + a general lack of education about pet ownership and responsibilities exists, no amount of chasing after free online marketplaces or trying to license compliance will solve the problem.
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My apologies… lost a few words in my original post and also quoted the wrong person 
not my finest day
Was thinking of the post from S1969 (not Sswor)
I am constantly astounded by the ignorance and sometimes just plain stupidity of people who buy puppies.
who often don’t neuter their pets and don’t always deal well when their pets go out and inadvertently make more puppies.
Sswor, I don’t have an issue with how and where you got your dogs. They are obviously loved and well cared for.
Bad WMW.
Which then does lead back to the question, what exactly is a BYB and why are they so bad?
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OTOH I do not understand people who do not spay/neuter dog and let them run around willy nilly.
Ah I got it. I was wondering what was up. No worries, thanks for the clarification.
A “backyard breeder” is a term of art - it refers to the type of breeder that basically mates two dogs without any specific selection criteria and/or health testing.
Selection criteria meaning - more than just “cute” - dogs were chosen for breeding because they exhibited exemplary something – physical specimen and/or correct temperament and/or performance sport/activity, etc. - AND the dogs were determined not to be affected with congenital issues known in the breed.
I personally believe that there is a market for healthy, purpose bred pets. They would not need show titles - they would not need to be conformationally perfect and prove it in competition, but they should be fairly correct. They should have the correct temperament, and they should pass health screenings. Those things are NOT that expensive. There really is no good reason not to health tests parents for any/all intended breedings…. for most breeds it’s a few hundred bucks. If you can’t spend that kind of money to make sure you’re not breeding dysplastic or deaf dogs, you shouldn’t be breeding at all.
Skipping those steps makes someone a “backyard breeder” in my book - which doesn’t have anything to do with whether they were actually bred in the backyard (because my younger dog was in fact, bred in my backyard with my older dog as stud.)
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S1969, your definition would work for me although enforcing would be a challenge IMO. Health testing may be easy to check (I know I checked my second BT’s parent’s for sure). Selection would be harder to determine as your idea of specific selection and mine might be different.
I was more curious what the OP’s definition of BYB was, as often BYB are painted as the evil players in the over breeding “problem”.
BYB is a mythical, villainous, blanket term reserved for internet warriors.
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Thank you, Sswor - I’m a BYB (was) and have, without fail, had wonderful dogs, bred for temperament and health
from my original dog bred at the Portman Hunt in Dorset, England. Family raised, not in breeders’ kennels kept outside
like so many breeders do. I can spot my dog’s descendants after all these generations, they have a stamp.
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Actually, no. It’s not. It’s a term regarding irresponsible animal breeders that are contributing the the over population of all animals for money. I am far from an internet warrior. The quantity of animals put on the earth for profit really bothers me. It bothers me because there are so many needy and homeless animals in the US. The rescues do what they do and some are good and some are nuts.
Free advertising for animals with the vague veil of “rehoming” is a vehicle for people to just breed animals and I don’t like it. It think it’s a bad thing.
My next dog will be a purchase from a breeder because there is something specific that I want (female GSD pup). I will be purchasing her from a reputable breeder.
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CL is a self-policed site. All you can really do is flag, that’s how CL is designed to work.
I can’t like this enough. There’s just no valid excuse for not following the health testing recommendations for the parent club for the breed. The health testing costs are a drop in the bucket compared to what I spend training and competing. But, as a veterinarian, I want to scream every time another litter of labs is brought in where the parents are devoid of all health testing. If you’re going to bring puppies in to this world, you OWE it to them to stack the deck in their favor as best you can.
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Well then you should put your money where your mouth is. Your future intentions don’t seem to square with your expressed concerns, at all.
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In what way?
OP wants mandatory neutering because OP is worried about all the needy and homeless pets yet OP now going to buy next dog from a breeder. Apparently neutering should be mandatory for all except when OP wants a specific puppy.
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Daughter’s friend bought a purebred Doberman puppy from a ‘breeder’ seven years ago. Today it was put down from congenital heart disease - She paid over $2,000.00 for this dog. This breeder did not do health checks, apparently.
I bought my dog with a money back guarantee if my vet found any health deficiencies. She’s perfect, but whether I actually would have got my money back is debatable.
Due dilligence.
So yesi would afree that the 1st breeder is a BY breeder if this is a known congenital defect that can be screened for to prevent
2nd…hard to know. Health guarantee doesnt mean that the puppy was well bred or doesn’t have genetic defects. It just means that you can get your money back (in theory) for some period of time if it does. 7 years is usually way outside the window for a health guarantee, for example.
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Actually, I said that I think breeders should be licensed.
OP has already clarified it and referred you back to her first post-
“My original post states that breeders should be licensed. So there would be puppies, just not ill bred ones that have paws on the ground for the profit of a back yard breeder.”
In my state they help encourage spay/neuter by having the dog license prices higher for unneutered/unspayed dogs.
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