I believe in crate training dogs because it is a useful skill. If I travel with my dog, I always crate overnight in a hotel room because you never know if there is something that a dog could get into there. I think crates are useful for car travel, and also for when a dog is staying at the vet or groomer.
I am able to let my dogs out at lunch. I had one dog that had issues with bladder infections, and from that experience I became accustomed to giving the dogs bathroom breaks every 4 to 5 hours during the day (obviously I do sleep for more than that at a time, so they do go all night without going out).
I think the real problem with crating is that it is pretty easy for dogs to be crated not just 8 hours a day, but closer to 23 hours a day. People crate while they are at work, while they are sleeping, while they are running errands, and on and on. It can be very easy to get in a pattern where the dog spends very little time outside of a crate. Crate training is very useful, but it can certainly be overused - severely. It also really bothers me that a lot of dogs are crated without water. My dogs certainly don’t drink water continuously, but drinking water is healthy. If I do use a crate, I put water in the crate with them (or stop the car every couple of hours and offer water).
[QUOTE=paulaedwina;7176563]
I think it’s important to crate train dogs because they need to be familiar with being transported, boarded, or hospitalized should the need arise. It’s just like with horses -you’d hate that the first time your horse gets loaded is the day it needs to be evacuated or transported.
Having said that, I train them to it with the hopes of not having to use it regularly.
Paula[/QUOTE]
THIS.
Having worked for a vet, it is terrible when a “I don’t believe in crating my dog” dog comes in. They are difficult to get into a kennel. They whine, they cry, they get upset. It’s a traumatic thing all the way around, for everyone involved.
Even if you don’t crate your dogs, it’s a really, really good idea to teach them what it’s all about. Teach them to go in the crate willingly and rest quietly in the crate. It IS just one of those life skills, like trailer loading for a horse, that dogs should know.
I really question the idea that a dog sleeping on the couch is basically the same thing as a dog sleeping in a crate. A dog snoozing 4 hours on the couch, getting up and getting a drink, scouting the kitchen for crumbs again, checking the door for the mailman, and then going back to snooze for another 4 hours is not the same as a dog who’s able to get up, stretch, turn around and then lie back down. The first dog has far more autonomy and far more mental stimulation, and while that setup may be impossible in some dogs - severe anxiety, a medical issue, etc. - it’s possible in most. I’m just a little bothered by how far we’ve come from the early days of crates, when people reacted to them as little cages, to now viewing them so positively that they’re considered as an alternative to risking your rug. Not a slam on anyone here, just the reality that you know there are people jumping on the “crate good” zeitgeist to justify never letting their dog loose in their house.
Nobody here said they never let their dog run loose in the house. There’s times when it’s necessary to crate them for their safety as well as the health of the people who live there. Animal feces in the house isn’t good for anyone. Now matter how much you clean it up there will still be some there.
[QUOTE=vacation1;7177151]
I really question the idea that a dog sleeping on the couch is basically the same thing as a dog sleeping in a crate. A dog snoozing 4 hours on the couch, getting up and getting a drink, scouting the kitchen for crumbs again, checking the door for the mailman, and then going back to snooze for another 4 hours is not the same as a dog who’s able to get up, stretch, turn around and then lie back down. The first dog has far more autonomy and far more mental stimulation, and while that setup may be impossible in some dogs - severe anxiety, a medical issue, etc. - it’s possible in most. I’m just a little bothered by how far we’ve come from the early days of crates, when people reacted to them as little cages, to now viewing them so positively that they’re considered as an alternative to risking your rug. Not a slam on anyone here, just the reality that you know there are people jumping on the “crate good” zeitgeist to justify never letting their dog loose in their house.[/QUOTE]
snoozing, stretching, scouring the kitchen for crumbs, eating the dishtowel that has spaghetti sauce on it, peeing on the trash can, and going back to the couch…
My dogs are always loose in my house when I’m home; and currently loose in my bedroom when I’m not. But they have not always had this level of freedom when home alone…certainly not during the house training period. I have a dog now that tends to shred things also; so even though I let her stay in my room with the boys, I think we need to get the crate out again for her.
Well, expecting an argument, even did a google search before posting last night. A strong argument is supported it is science that dogs are den animals. And crating is strongly recommended. Something I’ve picked up from professionals, supported by training books. With that same google search, is is stated by the majority of results, but PETA being the only exception. But then again, they have a different purpose. As another author found,
…it became quite clear to me that PETA is not against the practice of crating, but it is actually against the practice of pet ownership.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201203/the-politics-pet-dogs-and-kennel-crates
And I am very happy that many responsible pet owners have taken up crating. Much better than the run lines and other tied outside options that had been around for years. Think the argument is about the length of time. But also disagree about their ability to relax. Again, in the crate, they do not have the responsibility that is required of them loose, thus so many issues with many being left alone in an open space.
There are other options, like indoor kennels, that are just like those sold for outside, but maybe only 4’ to 6’ high or so, have a roof and come in several sizes, from 4’ x 4’ to 10’ x 6’.
You can put a crate in there, water and even food, for puppies a puppy pad if necessary to leave them for long.
Many breeders and trainers I know use those on a wall of a designated dog room, so do individual dog owners that have to confine a dog for many hours.
I think if I had to crate a dog for many hours a day, I would check those out, in case I could make them work for my needs.
Those come all apart, bolt together, just like outside, larger kennels.
Scroll down to the cheaper ones:
http://www.overstock.com/Pet-Supplies/Crates-Kennels/314/dept.html
Just one more option to crating for many hours, for those where that may work.
My issue with an “indoor kennel” is that the dogs would use it as an indoor bathroom. Some might not, but that is the primary difference between a kennel and a crate – a crate is not supposed to be big enough where a dog is comfortable going to the bathroom in the space; a kennel is large enough.
An indoor/outdoor kennel might be a great option if you have a way of building one that is safe for your dog and so it won’t be barking at the neighbors all day long.
With the theft of dogs on the rise (for resale or dog fighting bait), I wouldn’t leave my dogs outside if I’m not home.
[QUOTE=LauraKY;7177352]
With the theft of dogs on the rise (for resale or dog fighting bait), I wouldn’t leave my dogs outside if I’m not home.[/QUOTE]
Me either!
Add that I have a grumpy neighbor and I am sure if my dog was out and barked at all he would be complaining to anyone who would listen.
I was just thinking there are dogs that chew up the carpet and then there are dogs that chew it up and eat it. So you get a double whammy cost wise, pay to replace the carpet, and pay to have surgury done on the dog to have the ingested carpet removed. And then theres the which one will cost more.
[QUOTE=Hulk;7176301]
And why I think crate training is paramount to a dogs life. Well dogs would come into the clinic and when they stay guess what they go, into a kennel. I have seen dogs smashed up beyond belief that recovered because they crated so well, and I have seen dogs not so bad die because they wouldnt crate or kennel.[/QUOTE]
This is very, very true and really happens. Owners don’t think about this. Dogs are caged at vet clinics. Dogs who panic, pace, or fight (pawing, biting, launching) have odds stacked against them, health-wise. Dogs who know to rest in a crate have a better outcome. Even for simple speuter surgeries, dog will likely be confined to cage pre-op and recover in a cage post-op.
[QUOTE=vacation1;7177151]
Not a slam on anyone here, just the reality that you know there are people jumping on the “crate good” zeitgeist to justify never letting their dog loose in their house.[/QUOTE]
Here’s a twist I haven’t seen mentioned: crates are used in deprivation-based training methods. Is using a 10 x 6 outdoor kennel for the same ‘motivational’ purposes better?
For the purpose of the original post, how about you make a poll? That would make it easy to see what people do, rather than having to read every post to learn if they crate or not, how long, what ages, etc. Posters with strong opinions will still post comments.
Our 1.5 year old dog is crated while we’re at work. When she was being housebroken I was able to come and let her out but it’s not possible now. She was kept in the kitchen when she was a puppy until she figured out how to open the fridge. And we attempted to introduce her to being loose until she ate a textbook, pulled dvds off a shelf and destroyed those, and destroyed her bed. Really the destruction doesn’t worry me as much as a foreign body. She also is never left in the crate with anything she could easily destroy and eat. No stuffed toys or ropes because she will shred them.
She still happily goes in her crate and has ever since she was a puppy. She actually preferred it to the couch when she was really little. At night she is in the bedroom with us and goes to the dog park almost every day.
ETA: We also tried doggy daycare since she loves the dog park but her anxiety about strangers made that a way more stressful experience than being at home.
I think it’s weird that so many dogs are so destructive. My family has always had dogs, lots of dogs, everyone in the extended family has at least one and always has had… and my Aussie that tunneled out the side of the house is legend b/c he was the most destructive one we’ve ever known. We’ve had springer spaniels, airedales, poodles, a black shepherd mix, mutts, chis, blue heelers, an elkhound, aussies, more mutts, dachshunds, labs and boston terriers over the years in the family. They’ve all just been dogs, left in the house when someone isn’t home, usually with a dog door to the yard, no crates, nobody in the family crates their dogs. All the dogs are long lived and well behaved…
I used to know someone whose father raised Chesapeakes and trained them for hunters… he thought that tying a dog was kinder than a fence b/c there wasn’t the visual barrier. His dogs were tied to dog houses, just like you see with sled dogs now. He was a very kind educated man and loved his dogs, they weren’t always put away but when they were, they were tied and yes, probably tucked into their dog house dens. He was very intelligent and intellectual; he would be fascinated by all the dog training and psychology today.
Just musing over dog keeping methods and methodology. Many times I feel as if I live on a different planet than a lot of people that post here; most (all?) dogs I know just hang out on their porches, sleep on the living room floor, hang out with their people, go for hikes and horse back rides “off leash”, go hunting and are generally dang happy well behaved critters.
[QUOTE=cowboymom;7177618]
Just musing over dog keeping methods and methodology. Many times I feel as if I live on a different planet than a lot of people that post here; most (all?) dogs I know just hang out on their porches, sleep on the living room floor, hang out with their people, go for hikes and horse back rides “off leash”, go hunting and are generally dang happy well behaved critters.[/QUOTE]
Well, you do live in Montana - that is like living on a different planet than most people. 
My dogs are probably kept similarly than yours except that they just can’t be hanging outside by themselves except in the fenced backyard. Too many dangers - the road, horses, nearby highway, railroad tracks, not to mention even my country neighbors would probably prefer my dogs not be in their yards.
But I don’t work outside the house - I am a SAHM mom and homeschool my kids. And we live in the country, have 20 acres of our own and back up to about 40 empty acres owned by the neighbors. Dogs get to run twice a day just outside of the yard, and also have a big fenced yard to hang out in if they feel like a change of scenery from being in the house.
So my dogs don’t have to be left all day long, and we don’t have to do a lot of things we used to have to do when we lived in a city brownstone and both worked full time.
My current dog was crated when we weren’t home for the first 4 months we had him. He was a rescue and we had to see what he was going be like on his own before we would let him wander around the house unattended. We started letting him sleep outside the crate at night, then stay out for short periods when we were gone. After the 4 months he was totally out of the crate. My dog is one of those who will never go into a crate on his own. We left his crate up for over a year in case he wanted to use it as a den and he never once went into it on his own. I think it’s bc he was crated at a vet’s for 5 months before we got him.
I am very glad he IS crate trained though. It’s been helpful in boarding situations, at vets and especially at dog shows. It’s very difficult to be at a dog show and NOT be able to crate your dog. I have seen this with several of my friends who at a very late stage in their dog’s life are having to get them used to a crate. At the show they aren’t in the crate long, but we HAVE to be able to walk the course without them and also it’s nice to go to the bathroom without them tagging along ;). It is easier on them bc all their buddies are crated next to them, but it’s been a struggle for some of them.
And I am one of those that would never leave my dog outside during the day - I live in suburbia, and I wouldn’t want my dog bothering anyone. Plus he could definitely get himself into a LOT of trouble outside on his own all day.
Before this puppy, all of our family dogs were very chill and non-destructive. Our greyhound was crated when we first adopted him as he was not completely housebroken and would pee on the couch. As he got older, he was left to roam but he always slept in his kennel at night.
I would love to be able to leave our pup out but I worry about her eating something and choking/foreign body. At the farm she is able to be left out during the day. Her cousin dogs, two weimaraners, would get out commonly so it makes me very nervous to leave her out unsupervised for too long, lol.
[QUOTE=S1969;7177779]
Well, you do live in Montana - that is like living on a different planet than most people. ;)[/QUOTE]
Second time I’ve heard this this morning-my friend in Phoenix said it when she saw we are under a winter storm warning today! :lol:
I miss being a HS’ingSAHM! It was really good for the dogs as well as the kids!
I sympathize with those who must crate their dogs while they are at work because the dogs may be destructive. I am sure that some dogs adapt perfectly well and are not stressed by this, like being crated, etc.
However, with wolfhounds, that isn’t how we usually keep them. I have a kennel, which is heated and air conditioned, that has dog doors that lead into paddocks. The house also has dog doors that lead into paddocks. Someone is nearly always at home. We usually have about four in the house and about four in the kennel. The older ones are usually “Perma-Housedogs” while there are two or three housedog slots that are rotated, so everyone comes in the house sometimes. However, the only times the hounds seem to choose being in the house are when we are in the house. We also have a back bedroom with a dog door that leads to another fenced area, so bitches in heat and visitors and sometimes others can stay there too.
Young puppies can indeed be destructive, and are usually not in the house unsupervised. If we are not at home, puppies are usually in the kennel/paddocks. But some puppies are not destructive, and anyone who isn’t can “graduate” to being a housedog even when we aren’t home. They seem to housebreak themselves, if they can go out from a young age, it is not an issue.
I dont board them or keep them at the vets unless I am there. I have a great vet who lets me stay with them during and after surgery. They do sometimes stay in ex-pens at shows, and this hasn’t generally been a problem. I travel with them extensively and they are not crated in the room. I have never had a problem. If I have been travelling with young puppies, I will put a tarp down in the room and use an ex-pen, but have never had an accident in the room (knock on wood!)
Most people who raise IW puppies do not crate them. Partly I think we are a bit outside the “crate culture” because a crate that is really large enough for an adult IW to stand up in, stretch out full length, etc. is so large it is basically a small room. I have run into this problem when attending some obedience seminars where they want the dog crated. I have used a 4 x 4’ ex pen with a roof, but even that is not really big enough, my bitch had to lie diagonally and still her toes stuck out!
I do want to point out to those who say dogs don’t mind being crated because “they are den animals”, that wolves, close relatives to dogs, only use dens when a bitch has puppies, and even then…it doesn’t have a closed door, and she is always free to leave periodically. Many dogs adapt well to being closely confined, I just don’t think wolf behavior is a justification for crating dogs. Most of the time, wolves sleep out in the open, unless they are nursing puppies. It can be convenient for people to crate dogs and most dogs can be acclimated to accept it and even like it. Most wolves would not like or accept it, despite their “denning” while nursing puppies.
Research facilities would not be allowed to crate dogs as long as many private owners do. A crate is considered too small to be acceptable as a “Primary Enclosure”. Just saying.
The puppies that are raised here grow up with a certain amount of freedom and activity. I have been fortunate to place puppies with people who have similar set-ups. I think that IW puppies benefit from some activity and companionship during the day, though they certainly need sleep and quiet time as well.
That said, if I had a more “conventional” breed, where it was convenient to use crates judiciously, I am sure I would.
