Crating throughout the work day (8-10 hours)

[clm08]

I have had dogs for the last 33 years of my life and never had to leave them crated while I’m away from home. Yes, my dogs are crate trained, as I take them to agility classes and trials. I’ve also taken overseas trips with my dogs, in crates in the cargo area or under the front seat in the cabin, so I know how important it is to crate train them. None of my dogs have been destructive, although one of my rescues does suffer from separation anxiety but after a week in my house he settled in and can be trusted to have the run of the house. Now, he still suffers from separation anxiety if he is elsewhere, barking madly at least for a few minutes.

I do have a doggy door from my back porch to the fenced-in back yard. When temps are above 50’s, dogs have the run of the house and access to the back yard. I worried that my dogs would bark and annoy the neighbors, so I asked my next door neighbor who works at home if my dogs were barking or being disruptive. He said no, he hardly noticed when my dogs were in the yard.

When my older dogs became incontinent, I restricted them to a very small area in the house, and covered the floor with pee pads. I knew they couldn’t hold for a long time so they’d have messed their crates and themselves if I didn’t provide enough room for them to relieve themselves.

I know my dogs love to look out the windows while I am gone: they will lay on the back of the armchair by the window downstairs, or in my daughter’s bed by her bedroom window, or on the trunk I have in my bedroom.

I make sure I provide plenty of exercise for the dogs on a daily basis, whether going for long walks in the neighborhood, dog parks, trail rides with my horses, running agility or playing fetch or tugging at home when weather is bad. I think all of this gives them mental stimulation and keeps them from becoming destructive at home. I know crating is the solution for most working people, but it isn’t my first choice.

[candyappy]

[QUOTE=HorsefaceDee;7176197]
I never crate my dogs. And have never crated any dog. I think it is cruel to leave a healthy dog in a crate/cage all day. I understand if they are sick or injured and need to be confined to prevent further injury. If a dog is destructive it needs more exercise. Not to be crated. JMHO[/QUOTE]

This is my personal opinion too. We have had a variety of dogs and a wide variety of breeds and I can tell you NONE of them would have been happy in a crate. I know people must do something with their dogs when they work. My parents always worked and our dogs were in the backyard with access to shelter and were fine. They yard was no showplace, but the dog was happy!

If your dog is destructive then he needs more attention from his person. I am one of those people who is able to be home with my dogs every day. They sleep a lot but they also burn a lot of energy every day doing farm chores. I feel bad for the dog in a crate for 8-10 hours every day then out for a bit then back in all night. Better not to have a dog at all.

[candyappy]

Since we have a farm my ideas differ from most " town people dog owners", i suppose. I see the need in some cases to use a crate and getting a dog comfortable in being in a crate is certainly a good thing. I have a real problem with the length of time that people find acceptable to keep their dogs crated. I admit that being able to be with my dogs all day /every day and keeping them busy with farm life is a plus when I need to leave them in the house when I am gone.

Don’t people have backyards to keep their dogs in anymore??

[kmwines01]

I’ve posted my dog’s situation on this discussion earlier but in regards to Candyappy, no. We live in a townhome situation where we have a lovely open space behind our home but the HOA is neurotic about the grass and about dogs being off leash in that area. So we built a pet area for our dog to potty and hang out. But it couldn’t be bigger than the HOA allowed so the fencing is not tall enough for my peace of mind to leave my dog out there for hours. I don’t think she’d leave but who knows what would happen when the neighborhood fox runs by?

I will say that I do feel that some people are very much attacking people regarding the crating. Just because you’ve never had a dog be destructive doesn’t mean they aren’t there. Each situation is unique and needs to be addressed as such.

I’m by no means perfectly happy with crating for the workday but at this point it’s the situation that works the best. It doesn’t mean that we aren’t working on the issue or haven’t tried other options but it’s more manageable at this point in time to put her in the kennel.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=candyappy;7180727]
Don’t people have backyards to keep their dogs in anymore??[/QUOTE]

I would never leave my dogs in the backyard if I were going to be gone 8-10 hours. A kennel, yes, but not just a fenced yard. At least not my fenced yard…I am positive my dogs could dig under the fence in just a few short hours; I am also pretty sure they might dig a few nice craters in the middle of the yard just for fun.

An indoor/outdoor kennel would be safer for everyone, but we don’t have one. We could build one, I suppose, but in general the schedule is pretty workable. If I did return to full time work, however, I might consider it.

In general, though, I still don’t think crating is a horrific situation if the dog is properly exercised and given liberty time. But I guess we have a variety of differing opinions here.

[bits619]

[QUOTE=Houndhill;7180272]
Sorry, I dont have any good photos to share, but the kennel building is nothing fancy, though we built it specifically for the wolfhounds, so it has served us pretty well over the years. The problem with the wolfhounds is that they are sized somewhere between conventionally sized dogs, and horses, so their facilities have to be bigger and more robust than most dog facilities. Also, they are social, so are ideally kept in groups, sort of like foxhounds, rather than individually.

Our building has three interior “rooms”, each is 8 x 12, and contains the dog beds, toys, bones, etc. and usually 2-4 adult wolfhounds, or more younger puppies. Two rooms can be combined to make one 12 x 16 room if necessary. Each has a dog door that leads into a 50’ x 8’ run with six foot high fencing, and that leads into a paddock of about an acre, some wooded and some open, with 8’ tall fencing. The paddock leads down to the barn, so they can follow me and watch me at the barn. There is usually no one staying in the middle run, but it acts a a “buffer” so bitches in heat are not nose to nose with intact males. There is an aisle in the kennel, a sink, raised bathtub, fridge and freezer. It has a propane furnace and an efficient window a/c unit that does a good job.

Not to derail this thread, but, funny story. When we built the kennel, we had to get a building permit of course, and it turned out we would have had to put in a special septic system for the bathtub, as they considered water from bathing animals as “toxic waste”! So I had to fib a little, and say the tub was for me to bathe in. I can’t imagine why they thought I would suddenly be overcome with an urge to take a bath in the kennel, but they did allow us to do it. (Actually we did use it a couple of times, seems to me when we had a water heater issue in the house, it came in handy!). And it turns out I use the raised bathtub only for bathing puppies, because the adults can’t easily turn around in it, so they are usually bathed in the wash stall, where there is more room.

When my numbers have gotten down, there have been times that no one actually stays in the kennel, but has been very nice to have to feed them in, and keep all the dog equipment and smelly things like tripe in. It is also nice to have when I do have young puppies that cannot be trusted loose in the house unsupervised, or need to separate because of bitches in heat, etc. DH prefers not to exceed four or five wolfhounds in the house at one time, so we have a rotation schedule when numbers are greater than that.

We do also have a dog door out the laundry room that goes into another fenced area, and one off the back bedroom that leads to a privacy fenced area, which is great for guests, bitches in heat, and it is where I whelp and raise puppies while they are young.

Hope that clarifies! You got the thousand words instead of the picture! :)[/QUOTE]

This made me swoon with envy… If only I had planned our house out!!
We have a lot of dogs and three fenced areas in which we rotate dogs. Our personal dogs are allowed loose most of the time, but we just don’t have enough room to let them roam in, say, three groups of two, as any groupings larger than that cause them to make poor decisions when excited (have had more dog beds destroyed right as we were driving up the driveway than I care to share!). So if we think they’re a bit “up” we crate the troublemakers.
The fosters that we feel are unlikely to escape or get excitable are left in the backyard if we’re gone for a few hours in the day, rotating which group of dogs gets a turn. Fosters are crated longer than I like, but thankfully their situation is very temporary in most cases, and it’s safe to say every one of the nearly 250 dogs we’ve rehomed has been safe to crate!

[Houndhill]

Bb

[QUOTE=bits619;7181766]
This made me swoon with envy… If only I had planned our house out!!
We have a lot of dogs and three fenced areas in which we rotate dogs. Our personal dogs are allowed loose most of the time, but we just don’t have enough room to let them roam in, say, three groups of two, as any groupings larger than that cause them to make poor decisions when excited (have had more dog beds destroyed right as we were driving up the driveway than I care to share!). So if we think they’re a bit “up” we crate the troublemakers.
The fosters that we feel are unlikely to escape or get excitable are left in the backyard if we’re gone for a few hours in the day, rotating which group of dogs gets a turn. Fosters are crated longer than I like, but thankfully their situation is very temporary in most cases, and it’s safe to say every one of the nearly 250 dogs we’ve rehomed has been safe to crate![/QUOTE]

It sounds like you have excellent facilities and management for what you have to deal with!

Just wanted to ad, as there had been a previous thread on this…we have our 17 acres perimeter fenced, and I usually walk hounds out, but there had been fawns, and other deer, and unfortunate encounters, to the point where I was wondering whether I needed to acquire a " non-lethal, deer clearing dog". It turns out, I have such a dog! My dear Tulip, who will be nine in a couple of weeks, has renounced all coursing activities, and can safely clear the paths so we can all walk out. Yay, Tulip!!

[toady123]

[QUOTE=Anne FS;7180139]
Well, then, why not have one crated in a separate room and leave the other loose in the house, and rotate?[/QUOTE]

Because when we got them they had also never been separated and we were not sure how they would react to a long term separation. Short term attempts had been stressful and we were working on it slowly so they became more comfortable without the other. Again, crating was safer and less stressful for them at the time.

It’s a moot point now because they are no longer crated- we only did it for about 6 months. But I have no regrets with how we approached it. Nor do I make judgements about those who do the same.

[Nicker]

[QUOTE=Houndhill;7179630]
While I completely understand why you would not allow a dog who was destructive or not reliably housetrained to have free run of your house for 8-10 hours a day, I wonder whether some dogs might thrive with a bit more space and choices. I understand that some live in a “sketchy” area and are afraid thieves might come into their house or steal their dogs, but others, who live in more secure or rural areas, might consider a dog door from someplace like a laundry room (of course I know there are dogs who would eat the drywall!).[/QUOTE]

When our house was broken into we lived in a very secure, rural area. It has the lowest crime rate for the city we live in, and is nearly the lowest when compared to surrounding areas.
Every dog(whether puppy or adult) that I foster starts crate training immediately. A crate is a tool, that like any other tool, can be abused. It’s all about finding balance with what works for you and your dog.

[Houndhill]

[QUOTE=Nicker;7182910]
When our house was broken into we lived in a very secure, rural area. It has the lowest crime rate for the city we live in, and is nearly the lowest when compared to surrounding areas.
Every dog(whether puppy or adult) that I foster starts crate training immediately. A crate is a tool, that like any other tool, can be abused. It’s all about finding balance with what works for you and your dog.[/QUOTE]

I am so sorry you were broken into!

But I don’t recall, did you have dogs loose, crated, what happened?

I am very sorry, I am sure it was awful!

[trubandloki]

[QUOTE=S1969;7180792]
I am positive my dogs could dig under the fence in just a few short hours;[/QUOTE]
Funny story on this.
We tried once to leave our dog in the backyard. Note I said once. Nicely fenced with 6’ stockade fencing. Really nice dog house and an access door into an area of the house.
We left for work.
An hour after getting to work the neighbor called and told Mr. Trub that he was pretty sure he just found our dog wandering around so he has him in his house for us when we get off work.
The dog that had never tried to dig under the fence, who had access to the house and a nicely fenced yard clearly started to dig his way out as soon as he heard the car leave the driveway.
Thank goodness that neighbor was home.

[QUOTE=Houndhill;7182987]I am so sorry you were broken into!

But I don’t recall, did you have dogs loose, crated, what happened?

I am very sorry, I am sure it was awful![/QUOTE]
I think that is in response to your post implying that you get why people in bad areas worry about people breaking in. This person is telling you that you do not have to be in a bad area to get broken into.

[Houndhill]

[QUOTE=trubandloki;7183738]

I think that is in response to your post implying that you get why people in bad areas worry about people breaking in. This person is telling you that you do not have to be in a bad area to get broken into.[/QUOTE]

Oh yes, so true, people get broken into everywhere. In fact there is a development behind us, there have been waves of people getting broken into over the years. Fortunately, we have not. We do have an electric gate out front, and are perimeter fenced, and then there are the wolfhounds, some in the house with access to outside, others in the kennel. Evidently they are not particularly friendly if we are not at home when people they don’t know come onto the property. I was surprised when people told me, they are very different when we are not at home. They are generally friendly to people when we are at home, but morph into a more protective mode when we are gone.

I know it is hard to know what to do…if you crate your dogs, and are broken into, they won’t escape accidently, but could more easily be stolen…if not crated, they could escape or be harmed by intruders.

I am sure every situation is different, everyone must assess the risks to their dogs according to their circumstances.

[LauraKY]

I had a GSD years ago, who would dig out from under the fence and come sit on the front porch. She never went anywhere but the front porch. After two tries, I gave up. No dog door in her future.

[meupatdoes]

[QUOTE=trubandloki;7177987]
I am sorry that you have not been told this but crates come in lots of various sizes.[/QUOTE]

Lol, exactly.

My three dogs, who collectively weigh 50 lbs, are crated together in a giant crate in which all three can simultaneously stand and turn around and lay down at full stretch. They can stand up on four legs or two in there.

I could fit in there with them if I wanted to, but it’s easier to have them come sleep in my bed.

ETA: The three of them do all ride in a smaller crate together when they go for rides in the car. This is because the purpose of the car crate is to limit the amount of space they have to fly around in in the event of an accident, and also ideally to have the crate FIT IN the backseat so the dogs can ride inside and not come along Romney style. They still all have room to stand, but just.
99% of these sojourns last 25 minutes per ride and go between my house and the state park where we hike, so they pretty much fall over themselves to get in there so we can get going. But I have been looked at askance in the parking lot when people are like, “They ALL ride in THAT?” Yeppers and no one will be flying through the windshield or escaping onto the highway in the event your car-roaming dog distracts you and causes a pile up.

Note how it is amazingly possible to buy crates IN DIFFERENT SIZES appropriate for the size of the dog(s) and the specific purpose and planned duration of the crating.

[Houndhill]

Yes, same as different stall sizes apply to different horses/periods of time confined/what horse is doing when out of stall.

Standing stalls used to be quite acceptable for hard working horses. Some of us confine horses in 12 x 12 stalls, some larger, some smaller, some 24/7 in pasture with choice of stall…I think it is similar with dogs. We all have different styles, what we think is incredibly risky, unduly restrictive, etc.

What seems similar is that a great variety of types of confinement and management work for different people and different animals. Judgement seems not very helpful to anyone, nor does feeling like your way is the best way, or the only way. Clearly, the animals under our care thrive in a variety of management options.

[Houndhill]

However…I have encountered people who seem to believe their dog of any age, including puppies, goes into a state of suspended animation when they are not at home ten hours of the day, and do not entertain any alternative to confinement in an enclosure just large enough to lie down and turn around in. I think that thought should be given to the dogs age, activity level, etc., before embracing this option without considering other options. For some dogs, perhaps this is ideal, or the best of available choices, for others, not so much. I just hope this is not the “default option” if people work outside the home full time, and hope that other options might be considered.

[Nicker]

[QUOTE=Houndhill;7182987]
I am so sorry you were broken into!

But I don’t recall, did you have dogs loose, crated, what happened?

I am very sorry, I am sure it was awful![/QUOTE]

It was the day after I had taken in a dog that a coworker no longer wanted and I had to spend a few hours at a neighboring city taking out building permits. Since he was a puppy he went in the crate and my dog was loose. Though I completely trusted her in the house, she was never locked in her crate, but chose to spend the majority of her time in there while we were gone. She was a timid dog and fearful of men, she must have taken off at some point. I wonder if she could have hidden in her crate would she have done that. Once we realized she was gone, we searched for over 3 hours, though she was probably out for alot longer. My DH found her while heading back to a job site to pack up for the day, she was very close to the bypass that runs to the Outer Banks. She was not the type of dog that would go to just anyone, despite being a show dog for the first six years of her life before we got her.

I really do wish I could trust my current dog in the house, I would worry more for the intruder should they make it in! But so far she is proving hell bent on self destruction, and I consider my house pretty dog proof. I’ve had foster puppies I give more freedom to. My DH hates crating her more then I do, he is planning a kennel off the back of the garage so she can come and go from the garage when we are not home. It will have a concrete floor(she digs) and a solid roof(she has climbed a 6’ chain link fence before).

Not every set up would work for every dog, I can’t help but get my hackles up when someone insinuates I am a bad owner for crating my dogs.

[Jaideux]

My dog likes her crate and has from the moment we brought her home from the shelter. Hangs out in it even if we are home sometimes, and always puts herself away in the crate if she thinks we are leaving the house (ie one of us is showering, or if we walk her in the morning wearing street clothes instead of PJs. She’s oddly attuned to that.). Sometimes she guesses wrong, which is a little cute. Growing up I had a German Shepherd who was so riddled with separation anxiety we did our best to crate him no more than 4-hrs/day because of how would sometimes hurt himself trying to get out of the crate. But my mom was a stay at home mom so we had that luxury of rarely crating him.

Is crating a dog 8+hrs/day ideal? No. But when there are more dogs than homes to go round, it doesn’t seem so unreasonable. It’s certainly not abuse that makes me say, “Wow, not being alive is probably the better alternative for this dog…”. Crating her means I can live in an apartment with no worry of surprise charges after an accident of boredom. It means I can also go to work and pay for her food, her beds, her vet visits, and her toys. It means I never have to worry that the cat is going to start something with her while I’m gone. And I also try to include her in as much as I can when we are home (including letting her “sneak” into our bed at night if the fiance is already asleep and can’t object!).

[aucowwy]

I have an inside dog that is crated about 8 hours while we are gone from work. If she is not crated she has been known to pee all over the house. She also loves her crate and gets in it every morning herself. I also have friends that chose a crate over their house being destroyed. My dog has been crated for years and if happy, healthy and normal.

[englishcowgirl]

I have to crate mine for 10 hours so I can work. She is not a young dog, but will eat every single plant that we own, then move on to the furniture. If she is in a room with nothing, she will start on the carpet and then eat through the dry wall. She has eaten through the garage drywall and was working on getting through the plastic siding when we tried to let her free roam in there. She gets regular daily exercise and that tends to make the issue worse. The only things she will not rip apart are cars. She will sit all day and not touch a thing. I leave a door open for her and she stays in there (if the weather is ok for that). If the car is not available I must watch her at all times when I am around and she is out because she will start her behavior if she thinks no one is watching. If I am not home, but the car is there nothing happens. As soon as the car is gone, all hell breaks loose. I found this dog on the side of the road and I think we know why she was out there as I believe she is a very expensive pure bred dog. I do not think there are many homes for a dog like this. We are able to manage it with the crating and she seems very happy with her life. If anyone wants to take a crack at explaining her behavior or can help to fix it, I would welcome the assistance. I try to give this dog the best life possible.