Crypto Aero for the easy keeper?

[3rottenponies]

Hi, I am looking at some alternative feeding programs for what is probably the world’s easiest keeper ever. I have seen people rave about crypto aero, and seen ads for it on Facebook, but only actually checked the website out last night. On it, there are a few testimonials for people with easy keepers…but I thought I would see if anyone here has used it as well.

Or, what do YOU feed your fatties that works well?

Horse in question is a 15 yo National show horse…retired, has had one bout of laminitis and also has sesamoiditis. He is in during the day with coastal in a slow feed hay net. Turned out all night with two buddies on the least lush of my pastures. I do not ride him anymore, but he has a pretty high play drive and is a relatively busy guy. He currently gets a handful of Enrich, salt, and Thyro L. During the winter, he gets a few(and by that, I mean two or three small ones)alfalfa cubes soaked in about 1/2 gallon of water with his feed as he is not the best drinker. I have tried to put him in a graing muzzle, but the last time I did that, he managed to obliterate his leather halter, tried to rip his leg off, and managed to totally lose the muzzle attachment in the process. Needless to say, I am hesitant to try that again.

[Scribbler]

There have been several threads on here about crypto aero.

It doesnt sound like it would be appropriate for a metabolic horse or easy keeper. The company doesn’t even state the nsc but it’s probably fairly high as it’s basically fancy sweet feed. And it isn’t fortified.

Why do you need grain at all? Why not just get a good complete vitamin mineral supplement and add that to the small alfalfa mash. That’s probably the most effective way to cover basic nutrition without adding extra calories.

Do you test your hay and know where the gaps are?

[S1969]

I agree about skipping the grain. Probably the bigger issue is the overnight turnout on the “least lush of your pastures.” You can’t make up for too much hay/grass by feeding fewer calories in a concentrate.

I know that’s the issue with my fat horses; even sparse pastures is a lot for some easy keepers.

[islgrl]

I feed Poulins ration balancer to my air fern.

[Palm_Beach]

Why do you want to feed a laminitis prone easy keeper? He needs a dry lot or a muzzle, not “least lush” pasture. Test your hay and pasture and IF it’s deficient, supplement for what is deficient.

[JB]

@3rottenponies

He currently gets a handful of Enrich, salt, and Thyro L.

Your handful of Enrich is better than a handful of CA. Even then, I’d replace the handful of Enrich with a handful or 2 of alfalfa pellets (soaked) and a good quality v/m supplement.

I have tried to put him in a graing muzzle, but the last time I did that, he managed to obliterate his leather halter, tried to rip his leg off, and managed to totally lose the muzzle attachment in the process. Needless to say, I am hesitant to try that again.

Try a Greenguard - most horses are so much happier in that, and don’t have the intense drive to get it off.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

Probably needs more than a handful of enrich. I would increase that and skip any grain.

[JLR1]

Crypto would be a very bad choice for your horse.

[3rottenponies]

VM supplements are something that I have been looking into, but I wanted to ask about the CA. Looking at the nutritional analysis, I said ‘no’, but then looking at some of the testimonials made me curious, which is why I came here.

Thanks for all of your input!

[Scribbler]

@3rottenponies

VM supplements are something that I have been looking into, but I wanted to ask about the CA. Looking at the nutritional analysis, I said ‘no’, but then looking at some of the testimonials made me curious, which is why I came here.

Thanks for all of your input!

Yeah well. Trust your knowledge of nutrition and not the testimonials on any website!

You will want to know if there are any idiosyncrasies with your local soils or your hay supply, like high iron or selenium levels. If nothing is unusual there are a number of supplements out there. Feed the recommended amount.

What is your horse’s weight like? Obesity is a big risk factor for metabolic issues. Keep his weight under a Henneke 5 out of 10.

I know, easier said than done. But many recreational horses these days, like many older dogs (and people) are overweight tending towards obese. It sneaks up on you. A weight tape might be useful.

I’m starting to see the fat older horses at our barn succumb to founder and it’s scary.

Maresy gets every pound of food weighed out. And she’s still voluptuous.

[JB]

@3rottenponies

VM supplements are something that I have been looking into, but I wanted to ask about the CA. Looking at the nutritional analysis, I said ‘no’, but then looking at some of the testimonials made me curious, which is why I came here.

Thanks for all of your input!

Yep, trust your gut on this

There’s nothing inherently wrong with it. But it’s a mix of whole foods, unfortified, and unbalanced. That’s what it is. I don’t believe for a minute the testimonials from people who say the 1c of this they feed turned their horse around from looking unthrifty and just generally ADR, to a glowing picture of health. You’d be amazed at what’s still on their website. I know for a fact one of the testimonials there was valid at the time, but after several months of being on a bit of CA, she switched because the horses were starting to look like crap. She’s by far not the only one. I know others who proclaim how wonderful the stuff is, then talk about how they removed the sweet feed, added flax, added alfalfa pellets, and a handful of CA. But it’s the CA that gets the credit

[Cynical25]

My super easy keeper (7 yrs, 15hh, best-around-950lb QH) is currently on SmartVite Thrive multi-vitamin pellet and SmartBugOff pellet - no grain/concentrates, but blindingly shiny and energetic. 10 hrs day on pasture/dry lot overnight. Much of last summer he could only tolerate 6 hrs pasture, lived in the dry lot with 2-3 flakes coastal in doubled-up slow feed nets.

I’ve tried Nutrena Empower Balance and Triple Crown 30% Ration Balancers, but he put on weight at even less than the recommended amounts.

[warriorhorse]

Fat horse’s need nothing but hay.

[3rottenponies]

@Cynical25

My super easy keeper (7 yrs, 15hh, best-around-950lb QH) is currently on SmartVite Thrive multi-vitamin pellet and SmartBugOff pellet - no grain/concentrates, but blindingly shiny and energetic. 10 hrs day on pasture/dry lot overnight. Much of last summer he could only tolerate 6 hrs pasture, lived in the dry lot with 2-3 flakes coastal in doubled-up slow feed nets.

I’ve tried Nutrena Empower Balance and Triple Crown 30% Ration Balancers, but he put on weight at even less than the recommended amounts.

Thank you for chiming in. Many of my retirees are on smartpaks, and I have been curious about the Smartvite supplements, but none of my boarders get them and I don’t know anybody else who feeds it

Are you able to feed the Smartvite as recommended or have you had to customize the dose for your boy? I haven’t fed Nutrena’s balancer, but had the same experience with TC…and Seminole Equalizer, and Buckeye, and now Enrich.

[3rottenponies]

To the person above who said they think my horse needs more than a handful of Enrich…well, I can’t do that, he blimps out even more, which is why I am looking at alternative options.

Fat horses might not need anything but hay, but sometimes they need Thyro L. :rolleyes: My horse won’t lick that out of his bucket for shits and giggles without some sort of feed, again, thus trying to find a vit/min supplemet with minimal calories. I am all for feeding horses forage first and foremost.

[Scribbler]

@3rottenponies

To the person above who said they think my horse needs more than a handful of Enrich…well, I can’t do that, he blimps out even more, which is why I am looking at alternative options.

Fat horses might not need anything but hay, but sometimes they need Thyro L. :rolleyes: My horse won’t lick that out of his bucket for shits and giggles without some sort of feed, again, thus trying to find a vit/min supplemet with minimal calories. I am all for feeding horses forage first and foremost.

I think easy keepers may need vitamin mineral supplements more because in restricting their grain, grazing, and even hay for their own good, we are also restricting the nutrition along with the calories.

[JB]

@warriorhorse

Fat horse’s need nothing but hay.

Not a valid statement. In terms of calories, that might be true, but in terms of nutrition, it is not valid.

@Scribbler

I think easy keepers may need vitamin mineral supplements more because in restricting their grain, grazing, and even hay for their own good, we are also restricting the nutrition along with the calories.

Exactly this. All forage - ALL of it - is deficient in some way, either as an outright deficiency (maybe not enough selenium, maybe such high iron that there is pitfuly little copper), or a “deficiency” as an imbalance (maybe enough total copper, but not enough relative to high iron).

And if it’s really “nothing but hay”, forget any Vitamin E, and not a whole lot of Vitamin A, in addition to the above.

Then even if it’s grass, and the horse is muzzled full time, then you may be in an even bigger deficit.

Calories vs nutrition. The separation and distinction is critical.

My 1500lb WB air fern needs the same calories as your 1500lb hard keeper, despite what may be a 2x difference in calorie needs.

[Scribbler]

It’s like the advice for humans to take a good one a day vitamin pill if they are on a weight loss diet.

[JB]

@Scribbler

It’s like the advice for humans to take a good one a day vitamin pill if they are on a weight loss diet.

That’s a terrible weight loss diet (or at least a “severe” one under Dr’s supervision), if the quality of the diet suffered that much. In what I do, helping people move from a C.R.A.P. diet to a more healthy one, nutrition actually improves some or a lot. But for sure, I understand there are some very restrictive diets for medical reasons which prompt very targeted nutritional supplements.

That said, even our healthy foods are nutrient-deficient, so everyone would benefit from some targeted “ration balancer for people” :winkgrin:

[Scribbler]

@JB

That’s a terrible weight loss diet (or at least a “severe” one under Dr’s supervision), if the quality of the diet suffered that much. In what I do, helping people move from a C.R.A.P. diet to a more healthy one, nutrition actually improves some or a lot. But for sure, I understand there are some very restrictive diets for medical reasons which prompt very targeted nutritional supplements.

That said, even our healthy foods are nutrient-deficient, so everyone would benefit from some targeted “ration balancer for people” :winkgrin:

I dunno. In my 20s (pre internet) I sat down with a nutrition almanac with all the stats on all the whole foods.

I found that if I wanted to lose weight while exercising every day, I needed to come in under 1800 calories a day. And if I really wanted to hit the RDI of various nutrients I had to be really strategic with carrots and papayas and skim milk products and fish and what not. So maybe it wasn’t the calorie restriction so much as the RDIs.

But even 1800 calories a day did mean that you couldn’t have several glasses of orange juice for Instance, because that was a bad trade-off of calories for vitamin C.

Though I’m not a fan of vitamin pills. I’ve never liked how they sit in my stomach.