“The maximum safe level of propionic acid for poultry is 10 g/kg complete feed, for pigs 30 g/kg complete feed. The corresponding safe concentrations in water for drinking would be 4 and 10 g/L, respectively. Ruminants show a high tolerance to propionic acid. Differences in the safety of propionates and propionic acid are not expected. Propionic acid, sodium propionate and calcium propionate are authorised in the EU for use in food. Ammonium propionate, not authorised as food additive, will essentially share the metabolic pathways of the other propionates. Propionic acid occurs endogenously as a by-product of normal intermediate metabolism and consequently residues in meat, milk or eggs are expected to be negligible. The use of propionic acid and its salts in animal nutrition is therefore considered of no concern for the safety of consumers. Propionic acid and sodium propionate are corrosive to the skin, the eye and mucous membranes; calcium propionate is not classified as an irritant. Propionic acid and its salts are likely not skin sensitisers. In the absence of data, ammonium propionate should be treated as propionic acid. No concerns for the environment are expected from the use of those additives up to the recommend use levels. Propionic acid, sodium, calcium and ammonium propionate have the potential to act as preservatives in feedingstuffs. The efficacy of propionic acid and its salts in water was not demonstrated. The use of propionic acid, sodium and ammonium propionate as silage additives did not result in a better preservation of silage. Improved aerobic stability of silage was not sufficiently demonstrated.”
© European Food Safety Authority, 2011
So, you want to accuse me of whatever because I work in the feed industry, but I will ask you one more time WHAT IS YOUR EDCUATIONAL BACKGROUND TO BE FORMULATING FEED??? It is really a pretty simple question that you should be able to answer. Do you have a resume’ or a CV to which you could refer?
Just out of curiosity, who toll mills your feed?
Come on, cutter. She reads things on the internet. That’s obviously much more important than getting an EDUCATION in animal nutrition. Pshaw.
:lol:
Just clicked on the links you’ve provided- where is the peer review scientific data???
Just google peer reviewed. It should provide you with a definition!
[QUOTE=cryptoaero;7896947]
here an article about whole oats:
http://www.aebm.org.au/documents/whole_oats.pdf[/QUOTE]
Opinion, not science
and one about the cost of by products in most commercial horse feed:
http://agebb.missouri.edu/dairy/byprod/AllCompanies.asp
What does cost have to do with this discussion?
and two on synthetic vitamins:
https://www.organicconsumers.org/news/vitamin-poisoning-are-we-destroying-our-health-hi-potency-synthetic-vitamins
http://www.academia.edu/5998423/DANGERS_OF_SYNTHETIC_VITAMINS_PDF_-Google_Search
Lots of blab about humans, nothing about horses, and I don’t believe the question has been asked about synthetic vitamins, only synthetic minerals. I don’t think a single person here will dispute the fact that the natural form of vitamins is always better than the synthetic
and one on whole food versus processed:
http://holistichorsekeeping.com/whole-foods-vs-processed/#.VIUL_IcRKcp
Opinion/blog, nothing about science. Where are the peer-reviewed cites for all the information in these blogs?
I have more on the fact that ulcerative colitis is only a disease in the US in horses as it is the only country that allows propionic acid as a preservative in grain and hay…but that one is in French…
http://www.thehorse.com/articles/32922/the-equine-digestive-system
“This microbial population resides within the large intestine (cecum and large colon primarily) of the horse, while they reside in the rumen of cattle and other ruminant animals. These microbes actually ferment fiber into volatile fatty acids (VFAs). These volatile acids include primarily acetate (acetic acid), propionate (propionic acid), and butyrate (butyric acid), but lactate (lactic acid) may also be produced.”
Summarized - the horse’s digestion creates its own propionic acid.
We have quite a few people who can translate French
Right dorsal ulcerative colitis is caused by, among a few things, NSAIDs. I’m pretty sure countries outside the use use NSAIDs, yes?
And I absolutely agree! Lets inform consumers on Cargill, owner of Nutrena, and what they do to our environment. Let’s inform consumers that Cargill and Southern States have partnerships with Monsanto! I want consumers to be educated on what is in their horse feed, the value of it, and what they pay for it! Let’s do that!
Here is the corporate rap sheet of Cargill:
http://www.corp-research.org/cargill
Let’s also inform them on recalls of contaminated livestock feed over the past 6 years:
http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/SafetyHealth/RecallsWithdrawals/ucm393160.htm
Let’s inform them that most veterinarian schools are sponsored by big feed companies. That they are very aware of soy and its detrimental effects on all living beings and that they refuse to acknowledge that.
I LOVE educated consumers that are aware that the same companies that fed their horses when they became IR, now claim to have a solution to make it better!
Let’s educate people! I am all for that!
People love to be educated. They don’t like to be told as truth things that they know to not be true.
Cutter99, Simkie, Ghazzu- what are your real names? What are your CVs? Who do you work for?
JB- What is your name? And are you saying that the FDA is not posting the truth?
[QUOTE=cryptoaero;7897030]
Cutter99, Simkie, Ghazzu- what are your real names? What are your CVs? Who do you work for?[/QUOTE]
You first, sugar.
[QUOTE=cryptoaero;7897030]
Cutter99, Simkie, Ghazzu- what are your real names? What are your CVs? Who do you work for?[/QUOTE]
You first, sweetcheeks. I’m not the one making totally preposterous claims about my feed on the internet.
I think it’s hilarious that you’re railing about people who “hide” behind usernames when you’re sure as hell not posting under YOUR real name.
Please post your CV. Throw in where your feed is milled for good measure.
PS: I “know” Ghazzu in that I’ve been reading her posts for … damned near 20 years. First on req.eq and now here. I even asked her to PPE a horse for me once (wasn’t her locale, but she recommended a guy who was in the area.) I have more respect and trust for her knowledge than I do for yours.
RDC in Australia and NZ:[URL=“http://www.sciquest.org.nz/node/32083”]
http://www.sciquest.org.nz/node/32083
RDC in Netherlands and Germany:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?db=pubmed&cmd=Link&LinkName=PubMed_PubMed&from_uid=18714939
Blogs are not facts.
Madalyn Ward, DVM is a holistics only vet. Who believes physical health issues are caused by treating your horse as the wrong element. Treating a Fire Horse as a Water Horse, or riding your Metal Horse like and Earth Horse.
She doesn’t use allopathic treatments on horses with physical health problems, instead she ‘correctly’ diagnoses your horse as it’s correct element and then channels the new element into it via acupressure.
Sooo, guessing not a whole lot of science or reality there.
If it’s necessary…my full name, photo, etc is in my profile on here.
What do I do?
For starters, I read and comprehend facts. Usually.
Unless it’s complicated word problems in math. I’m not a fan of those.
Your turn.
love the fact that none of you wish to reveal your real names and call me sugar and such… I am Anna Frensemeyer, very proud founder of Crypto Aero. And your names?
Anyone with rudimentary search skills can find out who I am.
However, that’s quite beside the point, unless you’re planning on launching an ad hominem attack, which will further damage what credibility you may have left.
One would need no credentials to point out the inaccuracies in your marketing materials, merely, as Misty puts it, the ability to “read and comprehend facts”.
So I have no idea what recalls have to do with your lack of scientific research. If you don’t have your own mill where you ONLY mill your own grain and stringent quality control, you may be subject to recalls as well due to inaccuracies in your labeling or contaminated feed.
I’m also confused at what you think a GMO is and what you think a “whole food” is. Almost ALL of the food we eat, including grains, are GMOs. They have been genetically modified over 1000s of years through selective pollinating and culling of “insufficient” plants. How do you think crops were domesticated? Oats have not escaped the genetic modification through selective pollination. How do you think some of our better grasses have been able to become hay crops? A good hay field is tilled and re-seeded every year or it goes “wild” and is not suitable for haying in short order.
ETA: So you have an RN, BSN, BS Biology. That’s a little redundant. You’re a registered nurse, with a bachelors of science in nursing (no really? don’t you have to have that to sit the test?) and a BS in Biology (so you like school but not enough to get an advanced degree in your current career field?). You don’t have a degree in equine nutrition. Just because you know how the human systems work doesn’t mean they correlate directly over to horses, and not being willing to admit that you are not the answer for every horse in all situations make you weaker than admitting that you may have some missing links and producing another feed that may meet those needs. Your product has a lot of cool things to it but it’s buried under so much “hugs and kumbayah” that no one gets past the first few sentences.
Thank you Ghazzu- you just lied on here. You said you would reveal your name if I did and you did not… must be for good reasons.
[QUOTE=yourcolorfuladdiction;7897069]
So I have no idea what recalls have to do with your lack of scientific research. If you don’t have your own mill where you ONLY mill your own grain and stringent quality control, you may be subject to recalls as well due to inaccuracies in your labeling or contaminated feed.
I’m also confused at what you think a GMO is and what you think a “whole food” is. Almost ALL of the food we eat, including grains, are GMOs. They have been genetically modified over 1000s of years through selective pollinating and culling of “insufficient” plants. How do you think crops were domesticated? Oats have not escaped the genetic modification through selective pollination. How do you think some of our better grasses have been able to become hay crops? A good hay field is tilled and re-seeded every year or it goes “wild” and is not suitable for haying in short order.[/QUOTE]
Hi- there is no GMO in my feed. It is all wholefood. Thank you for your input. What is your name? Thank you, Anna Frensemeyer.
[QUOTE=cryptoaero;7897077]
Hi- there is no GMO in my feed. It is all wholefood. Thank you for your input. What is your name? Thank you, Anna Frensemeyer.[/QUOTE]
And no- I am not subject to recalls as I would never use a feed mill that uses any chemicals that can harm any species of animals. I am glad to hear that this is a concern of yours, which it should be to all horse owners!
[QUOTE=Ghazzu;7897067]
Anyone with rudimentary search skills can find out who I am.
However, that’s quite beside the point, unless you’re planning on launching an ad hominem attack, which will further damage what credibility you may have left.
One would need no credentials to point out the inaccuracies in your marketing materials, merely, as Misty puts it, the ability to “read and comprehend facts”.[/QUOTE]
Ghazzu- who are you? Who do you work for?
[QUOTE=cryptoaero;7897074]
Thank you Ghazzu- you just lied on here. You said you would reveal your name if I did and you did not… must be for good reasons. :-)[/QUOTE]
I did not lie.
I said, “you first.”
CMNewell, DVM
Happy now?
[QUOTE=cryptoaero;7897083]
Ghazzu- who are you? Who do you work for? :-)[/QUOTE]
The Trilateral Commission
