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Crypto Aero Horse Feed

Horse Care
#81

[QUOTE=cryptoaero;7897036]
JB- What is your name? [/QUOTE]
My real name is irrelevant, because all it would do is put you down a path of “you aren’t even a vet/Dr/scientist therefore nothing you say holds any water”, and rankly, that argument gets old. One does not have to be any of those things to know when “proof” is just someone opinion posted on a blog without any scientific cites. One does not have to be any of those things to go find peer-reviewed studies and valid research articles to understand to at least some basic degree that, for example, horses created the very same proprionic acid that you clearly state causes ulcerative colitis, nor to find the valid information and know from firsthand experiences that NSAIDs can cause ulcerative colitis anywhere in the world, not just the US.

Why do you ignore the factual information that has proven some of your statements wrong? Do YOU not want to be educated?

On the GMO point - I suspect Cyrpto only counts Monsanto’s Roundup-ready products to fall into the GMO category. It’s not difficult to make a feed product that doesn’t contain any of that, so that’s not a huge deal. Not all corn or alfalfa is GMO. There aren’t any GMO oats. I don’t think there is any GMO Timothy. There is currently no GMO wheat approved for us in the US (though we know it has escaped into “clean” cultivated fields :frowning: ) Yes, it’s great to be able to claim GMO-free status, but it’s not rocket science to be able to do that.

And are you saying that the FDA is not posting the truth?

I never said that at all. I never debated the issue of recalls.

Beau in the Testimonials certainly is quite fat. Hopefully it’s just a matter of his owners feeding him too much, and not the high sugar feed making him on the verge of becoming laminitic. He sure does look to have some unhealthy fat deposits in scary places :frowning:

One of the testimonials called this a “complete grain” and it’s no such thing. See why one should never look at testimonials as anything but opinions, possibly filled with either wrong information, or leaving out important pieces of information? If the owner of a show jumping barn (I’m assuming that’s what his by-line means) doesn’t actually know what he’s feeding, why should we be all ga-ga over the Peters feeding this? Many top names feed X feed and rave about it, but that doesn’t mean they actually understand what’s in the feed.

And no- I am not subject to recalls as I would never use a feed mill that uses any chemicals that can harm any species of animals.

Why do you think recalls are only about chemicals? Any of your components could be contaminated before they even get to you, your oats could mold, I’m sure the cabbage could be bad as well. All of those things would necessitate a recall if that batch were to be distributed. Hopefully you aren’t so naive in thinking that only chemicals directly in your or “your” mill are the only potential problem, and therefore don’t do any quality control testing on every batch that you make.

Let me make it clear, since a couple seem to have an issue with what’s really not an issue: I, and apparently others, do not think this is a BAD feed. It’s not going to harm most horses. I like the ingredients in it as a whole. I’m quite sure many horses do well on it.

However, it is absolutely not appropriate for all horses, especially IR horses. There are many other feeds that are just as good AND better (because they are actually fortified). The same can be said for quite a few other feeds, from the “not appropriate for all horses but work well for some”, to “not a fortified feed no matter how many times one says it” like Thrive.

Other than some little nit-picky details like that pesky 28% NSC level (which really is the only reason I’d never use it), I don’t have a problem with this feed at all. I don’t think anyone does. The problem is solely in the how and why being put forth by the owner and the testimonials.

#82

This is not a matter of being rude. There is nothing I, or my husband for that matter, have said here that I would not say to someone’s face. And if asking someone what their qualifications are is rude, then I guess I am rude! I will gladly call out ANYONE for making false claims and unscientific statements, especially when it comes to the health of an animal. This is not the first person I have gone toe to toe with and she certainly won’t be the last!

AAFCO has standards in place for a reason- to avoid pseudoscience and false claims- in other words ripping consumers off.

If you choose to bury your head in the sand concerning false claims and pseudoscience, such has what has been posted here, so be it! And if you choose to follow the example of some person you choose to emulate because they are a big name trainer, so be it! But when, not “if” but “when”, you have issues, I doubt anyone here will want to hear it!

There is no one feed out there that is good for every horse! And the big bad 800 lb. gorillas like Cargill and Purina must follow AAFCO standards, so why shouldn’t this manufacturer?

The NRC recommendations are available for anyone to read. Might be a good place for a few here to start.

2 Likes
#83

As the owner of an IR/Cushings horse I have been somewhat obsessive about what I feed my horse. I actually looked into this feed as it WAS touted as a good feed for metabolically challenged horses.

When I saw the 28% NSC level I simply thought to myself, “ugh, too bad, not feeding THAT to my horse!”

I’m sure it’s a wonderful feed for most non metabolic horses, but please, please don’t recommend it to people that DO have metabolic horses!

There is SO much mis-information out there in regards to feeding Cushings/IR horses, don’t add to the confusion! I had to deal with a case of laminitis in my horse 2 years ago, DESPITE having him on a very “tight” diet and keeping him at a healthy weight (about 4.5 on the henneke scale), on Pergolide and being in work… I did everything I could, but he still got laminitis. Fortunately, he recovered well and he’s sound now, but I would have really beat myself up if it was due to me feeding him wrong, (as if I didn’t beat myself up enough, even though I did all I could to help him), so make all the claims you want about your food, but PLEASE, I beg of you, do NOT recommend it for Cushings/IR horses!

#84

Why all the exclamation points, Crypto? It’s like “shouting” on the Internet. You still haven’t told anyone what YOUR credentials are, either.

1 Like
#85

[QUOTE=cryptoaero;7896726]
OMG! Who are you people??? Where is all this hate coming from? Get educated! Do some research! I deleted my posts as I do not wish to engage in discussions with a bunch of people that hide behind some user name without ever revealing who they really are and that act like a bunch of teenagers in high school! Vet? What is her real name? What type of vet is she and how much time has she spent and studied nutrition? How many languages does she speak and therefore how many scientific articles is she even capable of reading? Is her information limited on studies published in the English language? Get a life! Do something positive with it! Educate yourself on why people, horses, dogs and cats have all the same processed food related diseases. Stop following a herd of cattle without critical thinking! Open your minds and your horizons! Did I ever ask for your support? That would be an insult to my intelligence! The assumption of knowledge is the first step towards ignorance! My feed is mainly hay pellets? Who are you to make such a statement and have you ever even looked at it? Are you even aware of the metabolic effects of soy and processed feed? Do you understand the difference of glycemic index and glycemic load? Have you ever been responsible to adjust an insulin drip for a diabetic patient? Have you ever taken care of a patient in a diabetic coma? Do you have a degree in molecular and cell biology? Please just stick to your expertise and please try to make positive changes in your own life first and then in the life of others. Whole oats ARE the safest feed even for horses with IR, and synthetic vitamins ARE toxic, and artificial minerals should never be force fed without close monitoring of blood levels and they WILL cause congestive heart failure and kidney failure otherwise as well as arrythmias. Please educate yourself! I know that change is hard and I know that it is scary. Take a leap of faith and read! Thank you and PEACE to you![/QUOTE]

Dude, you suck at marketing. :lol:

5 Likes
#86

[QUOTE=Simkie;7797486]
I’m confused about something on their site:

http://www.cryptoaero.com/guaranteed-analysis.html

Is their “starch” number NSC?

If so, how can this feed possibly be 24% when the first ingredient is oats–which are 50+%? I guess perhaps it’s a lot more hay pellets than the picture on that page shows?

It does look like something I would be happy to pour milk over and eat for breakfast! Interesting that they’ve included papaya and green cabbage in it.[/QUOTE] this feed is designed for horse with ulcers. You feed a small quantity. The lady is very knowledgeable. So if ulcers are an issue I would strongly suggest you contact her. The Papaya is a natural stomach soother so that is why it is in there. This is for easier digestible food to help for ulcers.

#87

[QUOTE=JB;7798585]
I’d assume NSC = starch + sugar in this case, so 28%+.

That seems reasonable, as the oats are probably only roughly 50% of the mix.

Still, 28% is not anything I’d feed in any significant amounts. I do find it interesting - and maybe trend-setting? - they are using peas for protein instead of soy.

I don’t at all like the very unbalanced O3:06 ratio :no: Nothing we feed horses should have more 6 than 3, as they don’t at all need more 6, and often do benefit from more 3.

Not anything I’d feed, other than maybe as a handful yummy treat or to mix meds with.[/QUOTE]
Lots of horses are allergic to soy and soy has so many chemicals sprayed on them

#88

Ha. I would not be feeding a high sugar feed, with grains in it, to an ulcer horse :no:

There’s nothing in there that says to “feed a small quantity”

There’s not actually anything that gives any guidelines on how much to feed, which is part of the problem addressed early - not cool.
"Feed Crypto Aero Wholefood Horse Feed per day per LB. " - that doesn’t even make sense from a sentence structure perspective.

China - have you read the whole thread?

#89

[QUOTE=cutter99;7896893]
The problem with people here, cryptoaero, is they have made the effort to educate themselves on equine nutrition. That means your misinformation and pseudoscience does not fly!

As far as a BNT feeding the feed and that fact alone making it great, I call BS. I have worked as a professional in the feed industry for over 15 years and have been into many BNT barns and let me tell you something- many of them know absolutely nothing about nutrition and will feed ANYTHING they are thrown on a sponsorship or that they get for a reduced price.

The COTH members here are much more educated than the average horse owner as well as BNT. Many have come here seeking information because they have encountered a problem horse whose nutritional needs make a huge difference in their care, in as much as a high NSC could potentially kill them.

An educated consumer is the best consumer and I doubt you will earn them with pseudoscience. Maybe employing an equine nutrition PhD or someone with a Masters would help you greatly, but then again probably not. The above post will more than turn off even the uneducated! You came here, you revived the thread! Live and learn!

Once again, by the way, WHAT IS YOUR EDUCATION AND YOUR BACKGROUND IN EQUINE NUTRITIION???[/QUOTE]. Have done so much research on feeds for my personal use. I’ve come to the conclusion that large feed companies just care about ease and profit. They really don’t offer much but soy and molasses. They really need to wake up and get with today’s times and when the majority of horses have ulcers and allergies something needs to change. GMO food for people and animals along with all the chemicals are starting to come to light about the effects it is having on us and our animals. I’m am not a professional just someone that is trying to become more informed and in doing so have really been disappointed with what the major companies offer.
The biggest issue I have is that some of the feeds that I would purchase are not available on my area. I had a hard time just finding rice bran not full of soy or molasses. It’s ridiculous. Horses shouldn’t have to be given molasses to eat a feed.

#90

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;7896036]
Give me one “published articles from renowned veterinary universities” that states that feeding “artificial” vitamins in normal amounts causes “water retention”, " very tired kidneys" and “toxic livers”.
I’d seriously be interested in the data.[/QUOTE]universities are not the end to all. There are some regular vets that have done much more research and do cutting edge treatments. I just went to a univ. And then a clinic. The clinic had far better equipment and knowledge in this instance.

#91

[QUOTE=cryptoaero;7897097]
Not really… I googled you but there were no results. Do you have a website? Who you work for?[/QUOTE]
I also googled and no results except some post from 1996. I found that very odd

#92

[QUOTE=Ghazzu;7897136]
What am I,chopped liver?
I complied with your irrelevant request.[/QUOTE]
I am curious why nothing but blasts from the past show up. I am not trying to take sides just trying to learn and gain info. You come across very condescending and thinking you should come up on the Internet if you are as knowledgeable as you say

#93

[QUOTE=ThisTooShallPass;7897187]
Cryptoaero, I think you need to shut up, before you make it even worse.

Oh what the heck, I can go for some popcorn about now.[/QUOTE]regardless of what you agree with this is as immature as it gets.

#94

Who is selling rice bran with added soy and molasses? That’s not “rice bran”. That’s some other product.

It’s ridiculous. Horses shouldn’t have to be given molasses to eat a feed.

I agree! Anyone here would agree. But just because you see molasses in an ingredient list doesn’t mean it’s a major player. A little binding agent, a little taste enhancement, that’s it. The problem is when it’s a major player to get horses to eat crappy tasteless grain by-products

Having the best equipment has nothing to do with it. The context of that was valid research material. Has “your” clinic produced any peer-reviewed research on equine nutrition? Universities do (most of) that because they’re the ones who have the money to get it done. Most clinics don’t have that sort of money, and when they do, they are more likely to put it into more modern equipment so they can help more horses faster and more easily.

#95

This is my vets credentials DVM, PhD, DACVIM. She looked at the site and liked the feed.

#96

[QUOTE=China Doll;7906532]
This is my vets credentials DVM, PhD, DACVIM. She looked at the site and liked the feed.[/QUOTE]

Who cares?

2 Likes
#97

Who is selling rice bran with added soy and molasses? That’s not “rice bran”. That’s some other product.

I agree! Anyone here would agree. But just because you see molasses in an ingredient list doesn’t mean it’s a major player. A little binding agent, a little taste enhancement, that’s it. The problem is when it’s a major player to get horses to eat crappy tasteless grain by-products

Having the best equipment has nothing to do with it. The context of that was valid research material. Has “your” clinic produced any peer-reviewed research on equine nutrition? Universities do (most of) that because they’re the ones who have the money to get it done. Most clinics don’t have that sort of money, and when they do, they are more likely to put it into more modern equipment so they can help more horses faster and more easily.[/QUOTE]

So the companies like Triple Crown who make an effort to produce very low sugar feeds for metabolic horses don’t care about the horses, just ease and profit? If you put these so called low sugar feeds into unbiased feed programs such as FeedXL they come up as high sugar.

This feed isn’t even a fortified feed! How’s that for “ease”? It’s a grain, some forage, and a few “feel good” ingredients that might not even be present in enough quantity to do what each ingredient could do if fed in enough amounts. Rose hips - why? Vitamin C? Horses don’t need to ingest Vit C, with a few exceptions. Does that make you mean this is (also) designed for the old horse? It isn’t a complete feed nor is it sold as such, it is designed for horses with ulcers.

My point is that all the other companies use so much soy because its cheap. Many horses are allergic to it and people just never have them tested so they are not aware of it. People with performance horses need other options. approx. 65% of performance horse have ulcers. I think CA has a higher sugar content because of the oats, but oats are easily digestable. So I would rather have some higher sugar from oats than molasses personally.

I used Purina Ultium that is supposed to be low sugar starch and my horse got such big fat pockets. This is a horse that was fed 50% less than recommended and in training with a good amount of exercise. No way could I have fed her the suggested amounts.

#98

Who is selling rice bran with added soy and molasses? That’s not “rice bran”. That’s some other product. If you notice Purina and Nutrina feed companies have now taken the ingredients off of their websites.
I find that in itself disturbing so I had to request ingredients.
This is amlpify. Stabilized Rice Bran, Vegetable Oil, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Ground Corn,
Whole Ground Flaxseed, Wheat Middlings, Calcium Carbonate, Cane Molasses,
Salt, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Choline Chloride, Citric Acid,
Iron Oxide, DL-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate, Cholecalciferol, Calcium Pantothenate,
Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Vitamin A Acetate, Zinc Oxide, Copper
Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Nicotinic Acid, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Magnesium
Oxide, Natural Mixed Tocopherols (a Preservative),
Ascorbic Acid (Source of Vitamin C), Rosemary Extract,
Cobalt Carbonate, Lecithin, Ferrous Carbonate,
Manganous Oxide, Sodium Selenite

This is Triple crown rice bran oil. Rice Bran Oil, Flaxseed Oil, Soy Oil (Free from Restricted Ruminant Protein Products per Title 21, CFR 589.2000) - See more at: http://www.triplecrownfeed.com/products/supplements/rice-bran-horse-feed-ricebranoilplus/#sthash.r2BJ010E.dpuf

Then they sent this as an option. Heat Processed Soybeans, Wheat Middlings, Heat Processed Wheat, Soybean Oil, Flaxseed, Ground Beet Pulp, BrewersRice, Calcium Carbonate, Magnesium Oxide, Potassium Chloride, Mon-ocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Salt, Copper Protein-ate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, DL-Methionine, Calcium Iodate, Basic Copper Chloride, Ferrous Sul-fate, Manganous Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Selenium Yeast, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Niacin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Ascorbic Acid, Cho-line Chloride, Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product De-hydrated, Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifidobacterium thermophilum FermentationProduct Dehydrated, Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Calci-um L-Ascorbyl-2-Monophosphate, BHA and BHT (as preserva-tives), Natural and Artificial Flavors.

ADM had some with out soy and one other company and they didnt have any issue with putting ingredients online.

#99

[QUOTE=JB;7906497]
Ha. I would not be feeding a high sugar feed, with grains in it, to an ulcer horse :no:

There’s nothing in there that says to “feed a small quantity”

There’s not actually anything that gives any guidelines on how much to feed, which is part of the problem addressed early - not cool.
"Feed Crypto Aero Wholefood Horse Feed per day per LB. " - that doesn’t even make sense from a sentence structure perspective.

China - have you read the whole thread?[/QUOTE] yes I have read the whole thread closely and tried to skip the rudeness and bickering.
I got my info on how much to feed directly and I would guess it is on the bag as well.
You keep tearing this feed apart but purina/nutrina has taken off all ingredients online and in print brochures. I personally find that disturbing but no one else thinks it is a problem or just has never tried to find the ingredients that way.
Low sugar starch feeds are coming up high in sugar and causing fat pockets but that isn’t a issue either.
You need to be fair to all feeds.
How many times has something been approved to be safe only to find out that it is not? Feed mills making cattle feed and then horse feed which can also be dangerous. So many things to consider. I don’t think people really understand what this feed is for. My kitchen looks like a laboratory now trying to help my horse.
This feed has what I could be feeding to help horses with ulcers and I wouldn’t have to have so many different things to add.
If this were available in my area it would sell. Once my test results come in I may be having it shipped ups 1 bag at a time which should last my horse close to 2 months and I will be feeding additional suppliments for regular health.

#100

[QUOTE=Laurierace;7906536]
Who cares?[/QUOTE]
Seems everyone but you cares, if you have read where every one wanting to know aero’s credentials.

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