[QUOTE=China Doll;7906598]
Seems everyone but you cares, if you have read where every one wanting to know aero’s credentials.[/QUOTE]
Aero is your vet? I hope his/her stall side manner is better than his/her marketing skills.
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[QUOTE=China Doll;7906513]
universities are not the end to all. There are some regular vets that have done much more research and do cutting edge treatments. I just went to a univ. And then a clinic. The clinic had far better equipment and knowledge in this instance.[/QUOTE]
You’re missing the point here.
Crypto is the one who was making the claim about “published articles from renowned veterinary universities”.
So your idol was giving them credence.
And the rest of your statement makes little sense in the context of the particulars being discussed here, which are “tired kidneys” and “artificial vitamins”.
House guests! :lol:
[QUOTE=China Doll;7906524]
I am curious why nothing but blasts from the past show up. I am not trying to take sides just trying to learn and gain info. You come across very condescending and thinking you should come up on the Internet if you are as knowledgeable as you say[/QUOTE]
Because you suck at searching?
I get the following:
Ghazzu’s faculty page
Article Ghazzu has written about acupuncture
Some sort of practice listing
Another article she wrote on horse care
Another practice listing
Another practice listing
Same acupuncture article as above, reprinted on another site
Recommendation
Book on google books that talks about her contributions online
That’s the first page of search results.
Ghazzu has certainly given you enough information to turn up exactly what I’ve found.
3 Likes
[QUOTE=China Doll;7906524]
I am curious why nothing but blasts from the past show up. I am not trying to take sides just trying to learn and gain info. You come across very condescending and thinking you should come up on the Internet if you are as knowledgeable as you say[/QUOTE]
Do you truly believe credibility is directly correlated with google hits?
1 Like
[QUOTE=Simkie;7906620]
House guests! :lol:
Because you suck at searching?
I get the following:
Ghazzu’s faculty page
Article Ghazzu has written about acupuncture
Some sort of practice listing
Another article she wrote on horse care
Another practice listing
Another practice listing
Same acupuncture article as above, reprinted on another site
Recommendation
Book on google books that talks about her contributions online
That’s the first page of search results.
Ghazzu has certainly given you enough information to turn up exactly what I’ve found.[/QUOTE]
If that acupuncture piece is the one that the media office butchered, and it’s still circulating, I am going to be pissed…
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[QUOTE=China Doll;7906524]
I am curious why nothing but blasts from the past show up. I am not trying to take sides just trying to learn and gain info. You come across very condescending and thinking you should come up on the Internet if you are as knowledgeable as you say[/QUOTE]
We should ask Kim Kardashian. She’ll know what we should do.
[QUOTE=Ghazzu;7906622]
Do you truly believe credibility is directly correlated with google hits?[/QUOTE]
Since every one comes up in a google search I would think someone with your perceived credibility would come up easily.
[QUOTE=Ghazzu;7906632]
If that acupuncture piece is the one that the media office butchered, and it’s still circulating, I am going to be pissed…[/QUOTE]
What the media isn’t accurate? An article was butchered and not accurate?
The person I searched came up as a male not a female so wondering which it is.
[QUOTE=China Doll;7906643]
Since every one comes up in a google search I would think someone with your perceived credibility would come up easily.[/QUOTE]
So I just searched again and most everything was started with “self proclaimed” that is exactly the impression you give off. You are great in your own mind.
[QUOTE=PeanutButterPony;7906635]
We should ask Kim Kardashian. She’ll know what we should do.[/QUOTE]
I find it interesting that the OP hasn’t been on here and your name is suspiciously close to the OPs. PBJ=peanut butter jelly??
It’s just totally insane that you’re so focused on what you can or cannot find about Ghazzu, instead of focusing on the absolutely ridiculous claims CryptoAero has made on this thread. Have you actually paid ANY attention to what she has said? Or the “scientific backup” she has made for those outrageous claims?
There have been several people post they they think the feed is interesting and could be a good option for some horses–I am one of them–but instead of touting what’s really novel about this feed (peas, no soy, no corn, various things that are good for the belly, etc) CA comes here and posts a heaping load of pseudo-science about “tired kidneys” and “artificial minerals” and all sorts of other totally crazy crap that has no basis in fact.
CryptoAero doesn’t even have enough of a grip to understand her feed isn’t even labeled legally, or get that feed is recalled for reasons other than “dangerous chemicals,” or understand that something like copper can kill sheep (but I’d bet money her mill uses it in mixes, despite her claim that they use “no chemicals that can be dangerous to animals” or whatever it was.)
And speaking of the labeling, I don’t think there’s any way in hell that the NSC can be 28% if oats are the first ingredient. So the label is wrong or the guaranteed analysis is wrong?
And you’re defending this??
PS: please learn how to use the multi quote button. Wading through a half dozen of your posts back to back sure is tiresome.
1 Like
I don’t have FeedXL - can you print out the results of, say, TC Growth, or TC Low Starch, from there?
It isn’t a complete feed nor is it sold as such, it is designed for horses with ulcers.
My point is that you’re making other feeds out to be “ease of making, high profit”, when this one is about as simple as it gets, and I bet it’s not cheap. how much does a bag of this run? 40lb or 50lb?
My point is that all the other companies use so much soy because its cheap. Many horses are allergic to it and people just never have them tested so they are not aware of it. People with performance horses need other options.
I agree it’s a cheap source of protein. I have said several times I hope this is trend-setting in using peas for protein. But it IS going to raise the cost, and companies will only go so far to make the “best” product before they realize people own’t pay the higher price. There has to be a middle ground somewhere. Add peas but keep some soy, to at least reduce the soy. Maybe that’s a place to start.
approx. 65% of performance horse have ulcers. I think CA has a higher sugar content because of the oats, but oats are easily digestable. So I would rather have some higher sugar from oats than molasses personally.
Sugar is sugar. Grains for ulcer horses are not cool. Grains for IR horses are not cool
I used Purina Ultium that is supposed to be low sugar starch and my horse got such big fat pockets. This is a horse that was fed 50% less than recommended and in training with a good amount of exercise. No way could I have fed her the suggested amounts.
Ultium is one of the highest calorie feeds out there, meant for high performance horses. Even then, that doesn’t mean it’s suitable for all horses - great for some, very bad for others. It’s not low sugar either - not HIGH, but at around 18% NSC, it’s not low, not like the 10%, 11%, 13% feeds
[QUOTE=China Doll;7906555]If you notice Purina and Nutrina feed companies have now taken the ingredients off of their websites.
I find that in itself disturbing so I had to request ingredients.
[/quote]
They haven’t had ingredients on their site listed in a long time. Neither do a lot of other companies. It’s very annoying.
This is amlpify. Stabilized Rice Bran, Vegetable Oil, Dehulled Soybean Meal, Ground Corn,
Whole Ground Flaxseed, Wheat Middlings, Calcium Carbonate, Cane Molasses,
Salt, Monocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Choline Chloride, Citric Acid,
Iron Oxide, DL-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate, Cholecalciferol, Calcium Pantothenate,
Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Vitamin A Acetate, Zinc Oxide, Copper
Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Nicotinic Acid, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Magnesium
Oxide, Natural Mixed Tocopherols (a Preservative),
Ascorbic Acid (Source of Vitamin C), Rosemary Extract,
Cobalt Carbonate, Lecithin, Ferrous Carbonate,
Manganous Oxide, Sodium Selenite
It’s a fat supplement. it’s not “rice bran”. It just contains rice bran as part of being a fat supplement.
Look at Max-E-Glo. Rice bran, fortified and stabilized, Vit E and calcium added, that’s all. There are several others. There are also companies that produce straight rice bran. Most feed mills can get straight rice bran
Don’t try to sell “I can’t even find rice bran without added molasses” as looking for rice bran.
This is Triple crown rice bran oil. Rice Bran Oil, Flaxseed Oil, Soy Oil (Free from Restricted Ruminant Protein Products per Title 21, CFR 589.2000) - See more at: http://www.triplecrownfeed.com/products/supplements/rice-bran-horse-feed-ricebranoilplus/#sthash.r2BJ010E.dpuf
I’m not sure the point. So it’s not straight rice bran oil. It’s got flaxseed oil (awesome!!), and soy oil (really not necessary, but hey…)
Then they sent this as an option. Heat Processed Soybeans, Wheat Middlings, Heat Processed Wheat, Soybean Oil, Flaxseed, Ground Beet Pulp, BrewersRice, Calcium Carbonate, Magnesium Oxide, Potassium Chloride, Mon-ocalcium Phosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Salt, Copper Protein-ate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, DL-Methionine, Calcium Iodate, Basic Copper Chloride, Ferrous Sul-fate, Manganous Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Selenium Yeast, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Niacin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Ascorbic Acid, Cho-line Chloride, Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product De-hydrated, Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Bifidobacterium thermophilum FermentationProduct Dehydrated, Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product Dehydrated, Calci-um L-Ascorbyl-2-Monophosphate, BHA and BHT (as preserva-tives), Natural and Artificial Flavors.
ADM had some with out soy and one other company and they didnt have any issue with putting ingredients online.
I have no idea what that last product is. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. That doesn’t make Crypto any better (or worse) of a feed ,and it certainly doesn’t give validity to the many invalid claims the owner has made about its ingredients
[QUOTE=Simkie;7906677]
It’s just totally insane that you’re so focused on what you can or cannot find about Ghazzu, instead of focusing on the absolutely ridiculous claims CryptoAero has made on this thread. Have you actually paid ANY attention to what she has said? Or the “scientific backup” she has made for those outrageous claims?
There have been several people post they they think the feed is interesting and could be a good option for some horses–I am one of them–but instead of touting what’s really novel about this feed (peas, no soy, no corn, various things that are good for the belly, etc) CA comes here and posts a heaping load of pseudo-science about “tired kidneys” and “artificial minerals” and all sorts of other totally crazy crap that has no basis in fact.
CryptoAero doesn’t even have enough of a grip to understand her feed isn’t even labeled legally, or get that feed is recalled for reasons other than “dangerous chemicals,” or understand that something like copper can kill sheep (but I’d bet money her mill uses it in mixes, despite her claim that they use “no chemicals that can be dangerous to animals” or whatever it was.)
And speaking of the labeling, I don’t think there’s any way in hell that the NSC can be 28% if oats are the first ingredient. So the label is wrong or the guaranteed analysis is wrong?
And you’re defending this??
PS: please learn how to use the multi quote button. Wading through a half dozen of your posts back to back sure is tiresome.[/QUOTE] dont read them if it is too tiresome for you.
[QUOTE=China Doll;7906664]
I find it interesting that the OP hasn’t been on here and your name is suspiciously close to the OPs. PBJ=peanut butter jelly??[/QUOTE]
If I were interested in asking about a feed, I would just ask. I have my daughter’s retired gelding out on pasture, no hard feeds.
So no, I’m not the op…just the person who pays peanut’s bills.
[QUOTE=China Doll;7906658]
So I just searched again and most everything was started with “self proclaimed” that is exactly the impression you give off. You are great in your own mind.[/QUOTE]
Sugar, I’ve been playing on the internet since you were sitting in a sandbox and eating dirt.
The reference to “self-proclaimed vet” was a joke that arose as a result of someone with about as much critical thinking ability as yourself getting her knickers in a twist over something I said, oh, sometime in the '90’s, IIRC.
I immediately grabbed it as part of my sig line.
To quote the inimitable Foghorn Leghorn, “It’s a joke, son.”
(But I do have a nifty piece of parchment with a bunch of Latin on it that proclaims me a “Doctoris in Veterinaria Medicina”, if that makes you feel any better.)
However, this is somewhat beside the point.
You hero is the first to have begun dragging credentials into the discussion.
I personally don’t care that she’s an R.N.
I do care that she does not seem to have a solid grasp of equine nutrition and physiology.
While I may have a fair amount of formal education, there are plenty of other posters here who have made cogent observations with regard to your hero’s product and promotional materials who, while they may not have relevant degrees, are perfectly capable of reading and reasoning.
Not to mention the other posters with more credentials than myself in the area of livestock nutrition. (And no, they have not all sold their souls to Monsanto…)
Let’s get off the subject of who’s who, and stick to the science, or lack thereof, behind the product in question, shall we?
2 Likes
I find it appalling that she’s an RN, actually. I expect an RN to have a grasp on actual science & peer reviewed vs internet drivel.
If she were, say, a custodian (no offense to custodians) I could understand, perhaps, how she could believe the state farm ad.
Her behavior on this thread makes me embarrassed for RNs everywhere, though.
1 Like
[QUOTE=JB;7906678]
I don’t have FeedXL - can you print out the results of, say, TC Growth, or TC Low Starch, from there?
My point is that you’re making other feeds out to be “ease of making, high profit”, when this one is about as simple as it gets, and I bet it’s not cheap. how much does a bag of this run? 40lb or 50lb?
I agree it’s a cheap source of protein. I have said several times I hope this is trend-setting in using peas for protein. But it IS going to raise the cost, and companies will only go so far to make the “best” product before they realize people own’t pay the higher price. There has to be a middle ground somewhere. Add peas but keep some soy, to at least reduce the soy. Maybe that’s a place to start.
Sugar is sugar. Grains for ulcer horses are not cool. Grains for IR horses are not cool
Ultium is one of the highest calorie feeds out there, meant for high performance horses. Even then, that doesn’t mean it’s suitable for all horses - great for some, very bad for others. It’s not low sugar either - not HIGH, but at around 18% NSC, it’s not low, not like the 10%, 11%, 13% feeds
They haven’t had ingredients on their site listed in a long time. Neither do a lot of other companies. It’s very annoying.
It’s a fat supplement. it’s not “rice bran”. It just contains rice bran as part of being a fat supplement.
Look at Max-E-Glo. Rice bran, fortified and stabilized, Vit E and calcium added, that’s all. There are several others. There are also companies that produce straight rice bran. Most feed mills can get straight rice bran
Don’t try to sell “I can’t even find rice bran without added molasses” as looking for rice bran.
I’m not sure the point. So it’s not straight rice bran oil. It’s got flaxseed oil (awesome!!), and soy oil (really not necessary, but hey…)
I have no idea what that last product is. If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. That doesn’t make Crypto any better (or worse) of a feed ,and it certainly doesn’t give validity to the many invalid claims the owner has made about its ingredients[/QUOTE]when you search for rice bran in my part is f the country this is what is offered. Yes rice bran is available but not readily available in my area. ADM has the only product that I found but limited distribution and I live in the town where the ADM is made. Go figure one dealer in a small town a ways away doesn’t have it in stock.
I think Purina and Nutrina need to get with the times and offer feeds with out soy is all I’m saying.They also tout the Ultium as low sugar starch because of the type of sugar used is supposedly different.
Ultium is lower NSC high performance feed. Some folks use it for hard keepers and horses needing a high fat diet to avoid feeding lots of liquid oil. It is desgined to be fed at a pretty high rate to maximize calorie intake. It is certainly not for easy keepers! Fat pads will sure develop when a horses’s fat intake is more than it can burn off. If I recall correctly, Purina uses an oil/molasses blend instead of straight molasses in several of their higher calorie feeds.
Is Equi-Jewell rice bran available anywhere near you, China Doll? It’s a nice option, it simply has added calcium to balance the phosphorus in the rice bran.
Why stop with listing just Purina and Nutrena? What about Triple Crown and Seminole and Sentinel and Buckeye and LMF and and and?
Purina touts a “controlled starch” formula. Not a special kind of sugar. Nobody adds straight sugar.
But none of those things has anything to do with this thread.
Personally, I took my horse off of grain completely. He has always had free-choice grass hay and several hours of grazing a day, and now he gets soaked beet pulp and hay pellets with a vit/min/amino acid supplement to replace the grain (plus his other supplements–flax seed, MSM, home-made “CocoOliva” oil, and now Uckele’s Poly Copper/Poly Zinc to see if we can get his coat/tail to stop bleaching). My guy is not exactly an easy keeper, and with taking him off grain (he was on Seminole Senior Formula, which is a pretty nice feed), I have been able to cut down the amount of feed he gets, and he is holding weight almost a little too well!
