Cubbing is when young are dug out of den and thrown to the dogs to be torn to pieces"

[BEARCAT]

According to this petition to stop fox hunting in Colorado:
https://www.change.org/p/killing-fox-and-coyote-cubs-is-not-sport-help-stop-cubbing-in-colorado?recruiter=1259867&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_term=des-lg-share_petition-no_msg

"Headwaters Hounds, a foxhunting club based in Chaffee County Colorado claims to hunt coyotes and jackrabbits instead of foxes on public land. And according to their website, “cubbing” started in September. http://headwatershounds.com/

The practice of “cubbing” is thoroughly shocking and appalling. Cubbing is where the mother fox or coyote is run away from the den by hound dogs. Then the dogs are called back once the mother is run off. The young are then dug out of the den and thrown to the dogs to be torn to pieces. This is called a “fun sport.” An article at www.houndsoff.co.uk talks about a practice called “cubbing.”
Please help stop foxhunting clubs and the barbaric act of cubbing in Colorado and in Chaffee County by signing this petition.
Potential negative impacts caused by the activities of foxhunting clubs like Headwater Hounds include harassment of wildlife, bothering hunters and scaring game away. Typically, foxhunting clubs run large packs of hound dogs along with horses and riders on private land, but Headwater Hounds advertises on their website that it is holds its hunts on public lands. Imagine horses with riders galloping through National Forest and BLM yelling and blowing horns at a large pack of hound dogs, terrifying any and all wildlife in their path. Deer, antelope, elk, bear, mountain lion and all the small animals living in the areas where these hunts take place are subjected to severe disturbance to their habitat. Foxhunting and cubbing has been banned in several countries and should be banned here in Chaffee County and in the state of Colorado.
Please sign this petition and help us put a stop to foxhunting clubs and to the barbaric “sport” of cubbing.

This petition will be delivered to:
Chaffee County Commissioner
Dennis Geise
Frank Holman
Dave Potts
2 more decision makers…"

[BEARCAT]

Here’s a reply from the hunt https://www.facebook.com/abrownnavsys/posts/10154300024798710

[gumtree]

“The practice of “cubbing” is thoroughly shocking and appalling. Cubbing is where the mother fox or coyote is run away from the den by hound dogs. Then the dogs are called back once the mother is run off. The young are then dug out of the den and thrown to the dogs to be torn to pieces”

Maybe this was the purpose, and where the term came from back in the day to teach young/new hounds the “scent, the drill”. I don’t know enough about the history of the sport to say for sure. But will ask a retired Master where the term “cubbing” came from.

I have never seen this during cubbing season. I doubt very few modern day Fox Hunters would approve of the practice. Pretty darn barbaric IMO. If I saw this practiced it would be my last hunt. I never was able to get out on a regular bases. Don’t have the luxury of farm staff to look after things 3 days a week. WISH I did. Maybe it happened on the days I was not out. I still doubt it.

I have always looked at “cubbing” as the early less formal beginning of the Hunt season to leg horse and riders up.

Will ask my wife she has hunted up until recently since she was a child.

[Equibrit]

Just another despicable practice designed to con the public out of their $$$$$.

[trubandloki]

I far more believe the post by the hunt than the post with the petition begging for signatures.

If they killed all the cubs then the hunt would not have any foxes to chase, which seems kind of counter productive.

[MoonWitch]

[QUOTE=gumtree;8964322]
“The practice of “cubbing” is thoroughly shocking and appalling. Cubbing is where the mother fox or coyote is run away from the den by hound dogs. Then the dogs are called back once the mother is run off. The young are then dug out of the den and thrown to the dogs to be torn to pieces”

Maybe this was the purpose, and where the term came from back in the day to teach young/new hounds the “scent, the drill”. I don’t know enough about the history of the sport to say for sure. But will ask a retired Master where the term “cubbing” came from.

I have never seen this during cubbing season. I doubt very few modern day Fox Hunters would approve of the practice. Pretty darn barbaric IMO. If I saw this practiced it would be my last hunt. I never was able to get out on a regular bases. Don’t have the luxury of farm staff to look after things 3 days a week. WISH I did. Maybe it happened on the days I was not out. I still doubt it.

I have always looked at “cubbing” as the early less formal beginning of the Hunt season to leg horse and riders up.

Will ask my wife she has hunted up until recently since she was a child.[/QUOTE]

gumtree, hunted as a kid/teen in our area and it always referred to bringing out the young hounds and had nothing to do with harming the fox.

I wish I could get out too! Love see all the side saddle riders in the hunt now!!

[SmartAlex]

I think I probably got my definition of cubbing from Rita Mae Brown, however, it’s easily explained that cubbing is the time to introduce not only the young entry (first year hounds) but also the cubs to the idea so the hounds know to chase, and the cubs know to watch out. Without the full force of an experienced pack, and the entire membership out on serious business, the cubs have a chance to run and go to ground so when season starts they will be in less danger.

[connemarafan]

In England cubbing used to mean the practices described, but since the ban this would not happen purposely since it would mean the hunt is breaking the law.

I guess the difference between the US and the UK is that in the UK foxes are vermin and farmers do not want them on their land for fear of fallen stock etc. They pose a real threat to farmers livelihoods and are dealt with as such.

[McGurk]

I read somewhere or was taught back in the day that part of cubbing was break up litters of kits and encourage them to settle other territory? That’s why it’s in early fall, spring kits are ready to move out into their own homes? That it was actually a conservation method?

Is anyone else familiar with that part of it?

[vineyridge]

The facts asserted in that petition are just plain dirty lies. No hunt in the 21st Century would even contemplate such a practice in the United States.

[Rackonteur]

Cubbing (“cub hunting”) in the UK –

Young hounds are best trained by hunting and killing a lot of foxes. Cubbing, especially early in the season, is a brutal and bloody affair (though mostly conducted out of sight)Here’s what the late 10th Duke of Beaufort wrote in his 1980 David & Charles publication, Fox-Hunting, on pages 68/69 (the late Duke had massive status in the hunting world):

“The object of cub-hunting is to educate both young hounds and fox-cubs. As was said earlier, it is not until he has been hunted that the fox draws fully on his resources of sagacity and cunning so that he is able to provide a really good run….I try to be out cub-hunting as often as possible myself, and the ideal thing is for the Master to be out every day….Never lose sight of the fact that one really well-beaten cub killed fair and square is worth half a dozen fresh ones killed the moment they are found without hounds having to exert themselves in their task. It is essential that hounds should have their blood up and learn to be savage with their fox before he is killed.”.

–from houndsoff.co.uk

http://www.houndsoff.co.uk/archives/the-fox-hunting-season-has-begun-keeptheban/

Cubbing as defined on Horse & Hound (more pro-hunting than the previous quote)–

Traditionally, cubbing (now autumn hunting) was a time for educating young horses and hounds. It was designed to disperse the current season’s litters of fox cubs across the countryside. It was always much slower than hunting because coverts were “held up” ie the aim was to contain foxes within the covert to allow young hounds to learn to hunt and hopefully catch one. The field moved slowly across country from covert to covert, not jumping unless forced to.
Read more at http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?311678-whats-the-difference-between-hunting-and-cubbing&#rCP7VCjRKotydBVl.99

I am not anti-hunting. But realistically – it’s a blood sport. That’s what it’s called.

Think about all the “hunters” out there with guns who shoot deer and only wound them and don’t have enough sense or balls to track the wounded deer and make sure they’re actually killed.

[newbie1]

So eating meat, wearing leather shoes, having leather wallets, leather seats in cars are all bloodless activities? Even farming kills a gazillion insects, rodents. Do these people allow the mice and rats to run free in their homes?

Sad.

[xeroxchick]

[QUOTE=connemarafan;8964614]
In England cubbing used to mean the practices described, but since the ban this would not happen purposely since it would mean the hunt is breaking the law.

I guess the difference between the US and the UK is that in the UK foxes are vermin and farmers do not want them on their land for fear of fallen stock etc. They pose a real threat to farmers livelihoods and are dealt with as such.[/QUOTE]

I know someone who got into foxhunting as a person looking after sheep in the UK. Fox would wait until an ewe was giving birth and if she had twins, would kill the firstborn while the second was being birthed. They would loose almost half their newborns.

[Hunter_s_Rest]

I have hunted with Headwaters Hounds and know the founders and staff intimately.
They positively do not partake in such barbaric activities.
The entire U.S. hunting community should stand with Headwaters Hounds and support them as passionate conservationists and protectors of open space and native flora and fauna.
Headwaters Hounds are responsible members of the Colorado sporting and conservation community, and respected members of the Masters of Foxhounds Association roster.
All foxhunters need to stand with them and help in any way possible – Colorado horsemen and women especially should contact that newspaper and reporter to show them how incorrect the information as reported.

[McGurk]

It was designed to disperse the current season’s litters of fox cubs across the countryside. It was always much slower than hunting because coverts were “held up” ie the aim was to contain foxes within the covert to allow young hounds to learn to hunt and hopefully catch one.

The first sentence seems to contradict the second one. If you hold up the covert, you’re not exactly encouraging the kits to move on to other territory, are you? The first sentence is consistent with my understanding of the purpose of cubbing, to break up the spring’s litters.

Also, it’s worth noting that’s from a UK publication, and hunting in the UK, pre-ban, has always been very different from the US. In the UK, fox are considered vermin, and the hunt was focusing on killing as many as possible, to the poiint of stopping earths the night before and employing terriers to dig out gone to ground foxes.

In the US, foxhunting is practiced as sport and leisure, not vermin control, and hunts are more focused on conservation and wildlife management. Many hunts I participated in that put a fox to ground ended with the huntsman on the ground, praising the hounds and feeding them treats, not digging out the fox and encouraging the hounds to “break it up!”

So I would distrust any UK source to accurately represent the US practice. Sort of like comparing UK and US football.

I often wondered if UK hunts had adopted the US attitude towards the foxes if they could have avoided the ban.

[connemarafan]

[QUOTE=McGurk;8965369]

I often wondered if UK hunts had adopted the US attitude towards the foxes if they could have avoided the ban.[/QUOTE]

I doubt farmers would’ve been too keen on this!

[LSMarnell]

[QUOTE=connemarafan;8965445]
I doubt farmers would’ve been too keen on this![/QUOTE]

This I don’t understand. We have farmers in the US too! They grow crops and raise animals just like in the UK…there just is not that strong hatred for fox here though. All of our local hunts, hunt private land, i.e. (FARMS) and very rarely kill a fox.

[connemarafan]

I guess if you haven’t witnessed the devastation foxes can cause it’s probably hard to comprehend. As one other poster stated they can decimate herds quickly, either directly through killing or indirectly through spreading disease, causing significant financial losses leaving people’s livelihoods at stake.

We had chickens as children and if the fox got into the pen it would be a frenzy and all the hens would be killed.

It would be the same if a farmer caught a loose dog on their property as if they worry sheep or cattle it can cause them to abort.

There is also a huge cultural difference, hunting is a way of life in England and not just a leisure sport like it is in the US.

[LSMarnell]

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

My point was we still have chickens, sheep, & cattle here, AND foxes, yet, it doesn’t seem like they cause the same problems as you describe in the UK. Never have heard of fox “decimating herds” and my neighbors have cattle & sheep.

I raised chickens for 4H and I certainly have witnessed devastation. Never from fox, but from raccoons & wandering dogs. It didn’t make me think dogs & raccoons were “vermin.” It just made me realize that the coop had to be more secure.

[Equibrit]

[QUOTE=McGurk;8965369]

I often wondered if UK hunts had adopted the US attitude towards the foxes if they could have avoided the ban.[/QUOTE]

That may be true, but the vermin would, and are, still killing livestock and infesting cities.

Humans are the only fox predators in the UK.
In the USA there are several;
cougars
lynxes
bobcats
panthers
eagles
coyotes
gray wolves
bears
mountain lions
humans