Cunningham vs. Ironman as Belgian Warmblood sire?

[OneMoreTime]

Hello!

I usually post/read on the Hunter/Jumper board, but I just got the go ahead from BO to breed/foal out at the barn (2014 foal) Mare is a sturdy 15.2 hand BWP approved half TB/half Hanoverian. Her only other breeding resulted in a lovely but small filly. If you were to pick between Cunningham & Ironman, which would you select? Looking to add some size & calmness while retaining good jumping form & gaits.

Not positive we will go with one of these 2 (I have some others in mind), but I’m having trouble ranking these two.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

[Samotis]

Ironman has older offspring showing so you can look up more results for them.

Cunningham has a few I think that are starting to show.

They are both nice stallions, I am sure if you contact the owners they could give you a better idea of what they have produced.

Especially with small mares.

My mare is 15.3 and she has had 2 foals by Roc USA. 4 year old is about 16.1 and the foal this year looks to probably end up bigger. Huge strides, so even if they ended up smaller it would be no issue.

Are you lokking to breed a hunter or jumper and what does your mare do?

[OneMoreTime]

Oh yes, I’m looking for a hunter foal. Mare was a hunter with lovely movement/style. Injury has ended her over-fences career.

[Samotis]

How does she move and what is her type? Big head, stocky, leggy etc.

This will help people give you some suggestions if you decide not to go with Cunningham or Ironman.

I think Cunningham is a more hunter type, but if your mare moves very hunter type than that might not be an issue.

[OneMoreTime]

She is thick and shorter-legged. Excellent topline. Nicely feminine. She can get a bit forward/hot, but is a nice (not awesome) mover when she calms down. Her filly is by Grandom & is a lovely mover, but very small (15.1 hh) and hot.

[Samotis]

Hmmmm.

I would say try to find a tb stallion.

You need refinement, legs and movement which a TB will give!

A Fine Romance is a great tb stallion and I am pretty sure his babies are quiet and many show in the hunters. Just not sure what size he produces.

I like the Donnerhall stallions for length of leg and nice lofty movement.

I had 2 hunters at my old barn with a trot to die for that were out of Donnerhall.

Food for though.

[horsechick]

Legaczy is BWP and is about as tall and leggy as they come. Super quiet too from what I saw of him at an inspection.

[alliekat]

I have had experience with 4 Cunningham foals. Of the 4 one was a Huntery mover and the others lend them selves more towards jumper/dressage. I will cation using him on a mare that can be hot or opinionaited as the 3 out of those mares are very much the same so far on the ground. The other out of a delightful mare is a real gem though, so I know the other TB mares play a huge roll in that. I will say all are very brave! I don’t have any experience with Ironman foals myself so can’t comment one way or the other but the picutes I have seen of them are lovely .I would love to see pictures of your girl. We are thrilled with our colt this year by Amazing so if you open up your list of choices, I think he is one who deserves a look. Here is our colt from this year at 3 months old. Ahna was also fantastic to work with and has bent over backwards to help us this year inspite of a not so great repro vet.
ETA I didn’t see you were looking for a BWP only sire.

[jenbrin]

I have a 3 yrs old sired by Ironman. The main reason I chose Ironman is because my mare is a TB/Holst. and is on the spooky/hot side & is definitely pro-ride (which was fine when I was younger). I also wanted to improve on the mare’s gaits without taking away from her jump.
My Ironman filly has definitely improved on what I was looking for. She has been an absolute gem to deal with & I was even able to break her myself. In fact, our 3rd time under-saddle I took her on a trail ride. As far as her gaits, I’m so impressed, we are actually considering guiding her towards the hunter ring.

With that being said, my old trainer bred her All The Gold mare to Cunningham & has a gorgeous 2012 colt. He is very lovely & should jump with his knees to his ears. I’m actually surprised to see how much bling he has considering the mare was a solid chestnut & so far it looks like he is going to stay bay.

[Kerole]

Gosh Alliecat that’s a lovely youngster. Silly question, but is he chestnut or bay?

[Pennywell_Bay]

I have a Ironman/Tbred mare that when crossed with a Trak, gave me beautiful, huter babies. All 3 won on the line and have moved on to hunter careers.

[baywithchrome2]

@OneMoreTime;6500368

She is thick and shorter-legged. Excellent topline. Nicely feminine. She can get a bit forward/hot, but is a nice (not awesome) mover when she calms down. Her filly is by Grandom & is a lovely mover, but very small (15.1 hh) and hot.

If your mare is already thick, I’d look to a stallion like Diktator VD Boslandhoeve at Spy Coast. From what I’ve heard, his foals have done very well in the recent BWP Keurings. He is a modern type with very good length of leg and not heavy in the least. You’ll add size and some refinement along with the temperament and ever-sought after chrome. And his jump is nothing to sneeze at either.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/baywithchrome/7795046806/

He’s at the top of my list for next year. :yes:

[alliekat]

[QUOTE=Kerole;6500841]
Gosh Alliecat that’s a lovely youngster. Silly question, but is he chestnut or bay?[/QUOTE]

Thank you. We are beyond thrilled with him. He is bay, just a combo of still being wet from his bath and sunbleached. If he was kept up, he would be pretty drak I think. But we allow ours to have 24/7 turn out and even though they have access to shelter durning the heat of the day, they choose to still graze. Silly horses LOL

[sporthorsefilly]

I like both Ironman and Cunningham!

I have an Ironman yearling, Ironrose: http://www.herselffarm.com/images/sanding_ralphcropped.jpg Ironrose is 15.2 at 17 months. Her dam is 15.3

Ironman is now 20 years old and I have bred my other TB mare to him for a 2013 foal. The temperment is lovely on my filly and she is extremely smart. Ironman produces lovely hunter movement, and athleticism, with excellent brains. He has proven offspring, and anyone who has an Ironman will tell you they have wonderful temperments and ability.

Cunningham is a younger sire and his get are just starting to show in the ring. I have a booking to him, and think very, very highly of him. He is a stunning animal with an incredible show record, and lovely foals.

Both Ironman and Cunningham have super owners who really care about their stallions and the offspring that they produce. You can’t go wrong working with either owner.

Legaczy, by Alla Czar, will also give you height and wonderful hunter movement. This is a Legaczy daughter out of a 7/8th sister to Ironrose dam: http://www.herselffarm.com/images/Karat_FEH_Finals_-_Yearling.JPG This filly is now 16.2 at 2 yrs. She is also out of a 15.3 TB mare. Legaczy’s owner is a stallion owner who I trust as a friend and will recommend. His oldest baby is just three year old, and going under saddle.

[OneMoreTime]

Thanks to all for your input! It sounds like there are a lot of nice options out there. An easy-to-deal-with stallion owner is a definite plus. I LOVE the youngsters you are sharing. What lovely, lovely horses.

[fish]

[QUOTE=jenbrin;6500719]

With that being said, my old trainer bred her All The Gold mare to Cunningham & has a gorgeous 2012 colt. He is very lovely & should jump with his knees to his ears. I’m actually surprised to see how much bling he has considering the mare was a solid chestnut & so far it looks like he is going to stay bay.[/QUOTE]

Bling on Cunningham’s shouldn’t surprise. Cunningham himself was born with star, stripe, snip and high white. He throws greys and bays, many with chrome. No chestnuts.

As for temperament, I’ve foaled out, broken, and still train 3-- 2 colts and a filly. All were and are very brave, unflappable. The filly was born broke: I drove her one week, rode her the next. Her owner took her home in less than 3 weeks and has been doing whatever she pleases (trail riding, foxhunting, dressage…) ever since. The colts (both entire until 3) were full of mischief and difficult to get and keep forward at first, but became wonderful, confidence-building rides. All 3 are good movers, 2 more so for dressage, the other hunterly. 1 grey, 2 bays (one with chrome).

My vet also has a (bay with snip) Cunningham filly. I haven’t seen her go, but have been told that at 4, she’s quietly jumping small courses and they’re very pleased with her.

[Hocus_Focus]

Been a while since I have posted. I have never seen Ironman in the flesh but I certainly like his owner who always seems very nice and his son Iron Rule is the most gorgeous thing on four legs. Not sure who Iron Rule’s dam was but that may be an indication there.

I have seen Cunningham in person (love him) as one is immediately drawn to his presence. He is very vain and knows he is special. He was very mannerly at shows. You wouldn’t know he was a stallion actually other than he captivates your attention. In fact from my ring one day, I noticed that you could see many nice horses about working and moving from place to place but when Cunningham comes by, you notice. To me personally, he is very special and I always remember him well in and out of the ring.

As far as horses go, I think both are probably excellent choices. Perfection is hard to find in any horse.

[Sakura_Hill_Farm]

[QUOTE=Hocus Focus;6562079]

…I have seen Cunningham in person (love him) as one is immediately drawn to his presence. He is very vain and knows he is special. He was very mannerly at shows. You wouldn’t know he was a stallion actually other than he captivates your attention. In fact from my ring one day, I noticed that you could see many nice horses about working and moving from place to place but when Cunningham comes by, you notice. To me personally, he is very special and I always remember him well in and out of the ring…

.[/QUOTE]

Reg’s personal recommendation of Cunningham to us prompted us to use him with our Alla/Czar mare, Sakura Hill Czola. Mary was a delight to work with as SO.We sold the resulting 2010 colt, Sakura Hill Campai, a gray,at 2 months to a seasoned competitor and winner at Devon who is now leaving the show scene. He has recently been sold on to a buyer who will be showing and developing him as an amateur hunter. He can be seen as a youngster at:

http://sakurahillfarm.com/horses.php?HOID=65

We would not hesitate to use him again and are including him on a short list for a TB mare -http://sakurahillfarm.com/horses.php?HOID=73

as well as for a heavier mare- http://sakurahillfarm.com/horses.php?HOID=146

We have no experience with Ironman.

[omare]

if you are hoping for a keeper filly - it might also matter what bloodlines you are want to have for the future- one is defiinitely holsteiner bred and the other is definiteily Oldenburg (?) top line out of a hannoverian mare. They are definitely bred out of two different books.

[SilverBalls]

I love them both! :yes: Personally, if I had a mare to breed, I would reach out to the Stallion owners and ask their opinion. I have found you can rely on thier input as they have as much to loose or gain as you do.