Current market?

[Rnichols]

@beowulf

They get a bad rap because they do the hardest job ever, get sold cheap to uneducated/green homes, transition to a second/third career and they’re blamed for their baggage, not the sport that created it or the uneducated management that facilitated it. Don’t get me wrong - I love racing - but even I can see how it does them little favors in the long run when it comes to how hard it uses up their body.

THIS. 100%.

I’d also like to include that (obviously) these horses are bred to be racehorses. They aren’t bred to be your (g) next hunter, eventer or dressage horse. The fact that so many of them go on to excel at different second careers shows how versatile the breed is. I am probably biased because I grew up riding in a lesson program that had TBs, but I really don’t think they are harder to ride than any other breed. I think what can be “hard” about them is that they may need more time and patience to un-learn their first career so they can re-learn their second. And people aren’t always willing to put in the time that it takes so they blame it on the breed. I am not saying this as eloquently as I would like, but I hope I am getting my point across lol.

As far as the market these days, I just went to the local track to look at a couple horses and the price point straight from the track has definitely gone up by what I would say is a significant amount. I got my current mare in 2016 for the lowest of 4 figures. Now it seems prices (here, I’m in California) start at well over triple that. I did decide on a mare and, while she is more than I ever thought I’d pay on the back side, I do think she is worth the asking price. These horses DO have training, they have been exposed to SO much - they’ve trailered, traveled, learned about vets and farriers, have been started under saddle, the list is endless. It is not like you’re paying money to pull a rank animal out of a field.

Maybe it’s just specific to my area, combined with the fact I’m not really looking at ads of made horses because I know without a doubt they’re out of my price point, but I can think off the top of my head of 3 OTTBs that have sold recently (the last 6-ish months) for $25k+ with what I would call minimal show records. There’s another OTTB in this area that was advertised in the 6 figures and he did sell - obviously I can’t say if he for sure sold for that amount or not, but I’d assume it was in the very high 5s at worst.

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

I appreciate your insights. I consider myself a TB person, but the two that I have owned have each been challenging in different ways. The first was a relatively easy keeper with a people loving personality and “great” feet (per knowledgeable farrier referred to previously), but she came with severe mental baggage under saddle - presumably from the track. Generally did better on the second TB, but he came with a pancake right front foot that was frequently problematic and what turned out to be an “incurable” skin condition on his back pasterns (wish I’d been smart enough to have that farrier look at his feet before purchasing). He held up to and was pretty successful for about four years doing low level sport horse things (Training/First dressage, jumping 2’6ish), but he was put out to pasture for a year with Dr Green at age 15, and Dr Green didn’t fix his wonky stifles. I realize this is a very small sample, and I freely admit that at the time these horses were acquired, I didn’t know what I didn’t know. I’ve certainly learned more as I’ve gone along, but my perception remains that there are more potential pitfalls with TBs than some of the other options, and I don’t think I’m the only person with that opinion.

[fivestrideline]

@Groom_amp_Taxi

he was put out to pasture for a year with Dr Green at age 15, and Dr Green didn’t fix his wonky stifles

To be fair, Dr Green and no work is unlikely to fix wonky stifles at that age. I think, generally, the issues you faced can’t be blamed on breed - and maybe not the track but their lives after.

Anyway, I have seen some barefoot people posit that a lot of the issues TBs are said to have (lack of good digital cushion, low slung heels) come from poor biomechanics in trimming and early shoeing rather than genetics. I’m not sure I agree or disagree, but it’s an interesting idea.

[OverandOnward]

@Willesdon

TBs are sensitive and intelligent people who do need to be handled by competent horsemen.

That reminds me of something some people say — The difficulty some people have training TB’s (and Arabians) is that first the trainer needs to be smarter than the horse.

[GraceLikeRain]

@Xctrygirl

But some are (rightfully) put off by the horse whose shoes are $400+ per 5 week cycle versus the ones with no shoeing needs. And it seems not to matter if the horse has a solid show record to align with the nice shoes… people just don’t want the maintenance

There’s a pros post circulating right now essentially dressing down buyers for the things they don’t want to deal with and this was one of them. She seemed to nearly gloat about how it was no big deal to do $400 sets every five weeks. The horse in question was also running advanced. At that level the amount of general maintenance, cost, commitment, etc. likely is at a point where that is a small price to pay for a horse capable of gamely running advanced.

As a basic AA on a nonprofit salary my farrier bill is currently $300 and it is so painful. That’s $100 less than I had just a few cycles ago to allocate for massage and another $50 less than with the last guy that went to the fun treats, replacement bell boots, and fly spray. Some horse people are so wealthy that $400 vs. $75 every five weeks is no big deal but it really adds up for some of us.

Any horse can end up needing shoes or even specialty shoes but I sure as hell would never intentionally buy bad feet. I don’t have goals high enough to justify buying into any known major problems. Most riders are at BN or below or first level or below. It shouldn’t take a robust car payment to keep a horse sound enough to do the basics.

[luvmyhackney]

@Xctrygirl

But some are (rightfully) put off by the horse whose shoes are $400+ per 5 week cycle versus the ones with no shoeing needs. And it seems not to matter if the horse has a solid show record to align with the nice shoes… people just don’t want the maintenance

Part of this is lack of quality farriers that can maintain a horse with needs this high. It’s so hard to find a good farrier in many areas. When I shop, I shop with the goal of my support team has to care for this horse. Can my farrier maintain/improve this foot and can I keep them sound with my current support team?

My horses are barefoot so I pay 50.00 a trim, so yes, I would have a hard time paying for a 400.00 trim every 5 weeks with no end in sight or changes to get horse to a less costly shoeing package.

[beowulf]

I appreciate your insights too - I’m bummed your experience wasn’t positive. I do agree with you entirely there are more potential pitfalls with an off-track horse than there are with sport-started horses. It is so hard to undo previous training, bad or good – I’d rather start fresh. Like you there were some things I didn’t know I didn’t know with my first few TB projects – I do wish I could start them now, with what I know now. We can only go forward, though.

[Scaramouch]

@GraceLikeRain

There’s a pros post circulating right now essentially dressing down buyers for the things they don’t want to deal with and this was one of them. She seemed to nearly gloat about how it was no big deal to do $400 sets every five weeks.

Benchmark isn’t it? How ironic. People usually shop in the <$10K bracket for a reason and it isn’t that they have $4,000 a year to spend on farrier. Granted this also fits in with the “TBs don’t always get the maintenance/training they need to flourish BECAUSE they’re relatively inexpensive to buy” theme.

Personally $75 is the going rate for a trim where I live - up from $50 where we lived last year, still good farriers - and I am now extra committed to keeping my 5 year old (non TB) barefoot as long as possible.

[fivestrideline]

@Scaramouch

Benchmark isn’t it? How ironic.

Is this the same post with the kissing spine rant from a few months ago, or a new one?

[GraceLikeRain]

@Scaramouch

Benchmark isn’t it? How ironic.

Nope. It was an advanced eventer, I believe located in the southeast. Not a name I personally know but not associated with OTTB resale.

[Scaramouch]

You know I might have just mentally lumped it in with that post. I can’t seem to find it anymore without scrolling back on her page so I’m
not sure. It could have been someone else; there are certainly many outspoken people in the horse sales business!

[TinFoilHat]

As someone who is trying to sell an OTTB, I feel inclined to contribute to this conversation.

The amount of “no TBs” in ISO posts is truly amazing. My trainer has sold greener, flightier horses (non TB) for over double what I’m asking (<$10k). Like I’m genuinely struggling to sell him simply due to the TB bias in my area and surrounding states. It stinks.

I’m positive I’m undervaluing him as well. Which sucks more.

[AmmyHour926]

Link?

[luvmyhackney]

My current buyer vent: I reached out about a cute local TB. Friend texted me a screenshot including his price. I reach out to seller and ask to confirm price, check he meets my low level needs.

Basically I need a level headed grass machine sound enough for light riding.

Seller says yep, he would be perfect, but tells me horses price is 20% more than listed in ad. Debating if I like horse enough to proceed. Horse is sound but needs maintenance, his price isn’t crazy but it’s the random increase when I reached out same day as original ad that has me hinky.

[Groom_amp_Taxi]

Don’t know how long you’ve been looking, how motivated you are to buy soon, or how well horse fits other criteria, BUT from my view through the keyboard, it sounds like the initial ad has generated more than expected interest, and the seller has adjusted price accordingly. My initial reaction would be to say “thanks, but my budget is original amount firm”. Similar thing happened when we bought my now retired horse (seller honored the original listed price although the ad price had been adjusted up by the time we went to see him). I sometimes wonder if that was a sign that we should have let someone else have him.

[luvmyhackney]

@Groom_amp_Taxi

Don’t know how long you’ve been looking, how motivated you are to buy soon, or how well horse fits other criteria, BUT from my view through the keyboard, it sounds like the initial ad has generated more than expected interest, and the seller has adjusted price accordingly. My initial reaction would be to say “thanks, but my budget is original amount firm”.

Just started looking, but my deadline is July. My lease horse goes home. 3 horses are my magic number.

Sale horse is just down the road, so I inquired. Very cute type, going to need some let down and reintroduced to turnout. My guess is a reseller picks him up to flip.

[jazz8899]

Happen to be located in Aiken? I had a similar experience with a trainer there last year. I messaged them and then after some comments I just went nope, not worth it.

[Kinda_Kooky]

Seemingly really nice TB Gelding for a steal of a deal, buyer beware and I am unaffiliated, just craigslist stalking for the perfect Appaloosa I absolutely do not need.

This mght be a great opportunity for someone!

OTTB Eventer gelding - farm & garden - by owner - sale - craigslist

[Turfqueen]

I’m still fascinated with the current market, late summer 2024. Specifically looking at event horses. it looks like TB eventers are the current bargains, 20k for something going novice and up to 60k plus for a prelim TB with some minor issues on his record.

Non TB horses are getting insane prices. I’m seeing modified/training horses going for upper fives and some horses six figures. Are people really getting these prices? I understand it takes a lot of time and effort to get them to that level but wow, wow, wow! The idea of spending 95k on a horse is a big leap of faith but I’m sure this is pretty cheap in hunter/jumper land.