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Cushing's disease: a new approach to therapy in equine and canine patients.

Horse Care
#1

Cushing’s disease: a new approach to therapy in equine and canine patients.

Elliott M.

Kingley Veterinary Centre, Oldwick Farm, Lavant, West Sussex, UK.
Abstract

Forty-one cases of Cushing’s Disease affecting both equine and canine patients were treated with an identical mixture of two homeopathically prepared remedies (ACTH 30c and Quercus robur 30c), and the clinical improvements seen in the cases assessed. Homeopathy has been described as a medicine that can only be prescribed on the basis of individual symptoms shown, fitting the remedy to the patient, not the disease. The aim of this study was to define whether a standardised approach, using homeopathically prepared remedies, was a valid system of therapy for this disease, and if so, whether results were repeatable between species. The overall success rate for the therapy was 80% and results were broadly similar between the two species, indicating that homeopathy lends itself to the treatment of Cushing’s Disease, and also to both cohort studies and group medicine.

PMID: 11212087 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The complete study can be read here:
http://www.thepenzancehorse.com/2008/BITSNPIECES/CUSHINGS/cushingsresearch.htm

#2

Note that there’s absolutely NOTHING “new” about that.

It’s over 9 years old!

In any case what do you think it’s actually telling you?

I see the conclusion was that the initial “study” indicated it lent itself to the necessity to move to a double blind trial.

Do tell, what were the results of that?

#3

thomas

do you know whether a double blind was conducted and if so what were the results?

i find all cushings related matters of interest due to my mare’s condition, however, she’s doing v well on pergolide so i never had a reason to look for alternatives. i understand some horses react to pergolide hence need for alternatives.

i guess i need to read teh article closer but i’m also curious how the rate of success was measured.

#4

Couple of points here. First, to take the controversial ‘discussion’ of homeopathy (and herbs) off the other topic of discussion so not to hijack that recent thread any further. (The Hole that was abscess/strangles)

Secondly, to let readers know that there IS an alternative to expensive, synthetic drugs that can help their Cushings horses or dogs that perhaps they’d like to look into further or take up with their veterinarian. There are homeopathic veterinarians throughout the US and overseas.

Thirdly, to defend my position that the practice of using Homeopathy (and herbs) is not ‘voo-doo’, or ‘hogwash’ or ‘quackery’, or ‘magical’ as has been stated and darted with derogatory innuendos over and over again by you and a few select others any time I bring up the topic.

Homeopathy and Herbals are valid ways of treating dis-eases in animals and humans as is being shown by clinical studies and trials.

Fourthly, to state that the article does not bring up the NECESSITY for double-blind studies but does suggest that the “protocol might lend itself to double-blind studies” which would be awesome as homeopaths worldwide have been seeking these studies. …

Under the “Discussion” section of the article it is said,

“The production of these results, broadly repeatable between species, indicates that the combination of ACTH and Quercus robur, in a 30c potency, is a valid system of therapy for Cushings Disease… Success rates are comparable, if not better, than most conventional drug orientated approaches with little relapse. This study suggests the protocol would also lend itself to a double-blind trial, especially with the equine cases, something that has become a Holy Grail for homeopathic researchers.”

Key words: valid system of therapy; success rates comparable, if not better;

Yes, the article was written in 2001. (and from your own home country, Thomas - imagine that!) So? Did I say it was “new”? No. I posted the abstract of the article for informational purposes. Not to debate whether the article is ‘new’ news or not. Just because it is a study that is 9 years old means nothing unless its been dis proven somehow which I fail to find. In fact, more studies are being done on Homeopathy with regards to Cancer, Arthritis, Asthma and more with similar results as the findings in this study being presently discussed. If you’re REALLY interested then some reading in the medical journals at PubMed or ScienceDirect would satisfy your curiosity.

#5

You may have noticed that Thomas likes to attack first, and ask real questions, later…or disappear altogether…

#6

[QUOTE=ASB Stars;5007002]
You may have noticed that Thomas likes to attack first, and ask real questions, later…or disappear altogether…[/QUOTE]Oh yeah … whatever I say has become a bone of contention for Thomas no matter what forum, what bulletin site on which I post. He and a few others. I hold my breath anytime I post, no matter what the topic, and wait for the nasty flaming to start …

#7

FWIW, I think that this is a fascinating idea. I have used herbs successfully on several horses with metabolic issues, and dabbled in homeopathics, as well. We need to think outside the box on these issues. The reality is that the testing parameters still suck, and regardless of your position on this study, consideration needs to be given to anything reasonable that can help these horses. Metabolic issues are epidemic in this country, and these horses need help!

#8

I thought Thomas asked some good questions. I would love the answers too.

Was a double blind study conducted and if it was, what were the results?

#9

It isn’t that those aren’t reasonable questions, when asked reasonably. However, the issue is that just because someone posts a study, or anything of interest to them, and therefore, possibly to others, doesn’t mean that they know every factoid about that piece of information. I don’t think that it is imcumbent on them to know it all, actually. Sometimes, it should be enough that we are led to think and investigate further, for ourselves.

#10

[QUOTE=ASB Stars;5007056]
Metabolic issues are epidemic in this country, and these horses need help![/QUOTE] As with any treatment the whole individual needs to be assessed rather than merely treating the ‘symptoms’.
I agree – metabolic issues are an epidemic and need focused attention. My personal feeling is that excess of processed products fed are a large culprit in this. The lack of fresh food is a strong denominator when dealing with dis-eases in critters. (IMO).

Two interesting studies done: Pottenger’s Cat Studies and studies way, way back by Dr. Paul Kautchakoff, M.D which indicated that the body reacts to processed food as if it were violently poisoned because eating them causes increases in the levels of leukocytes severley enough to cause ‘Leukocytosis’. On the contrary, eating fresh foods did nothing to raise the leukocyte levels.
I’m sure there have been further studies since these were done but they are most thought-provoking, to say the least.

But - that’s for another discussion, I would think. However, if one were to simply ‘treat’ Cushings with the homeopathic remedies but did nothing to rectify what might be adding to the condition (diet/environment/reduction of stressors) then I would say that the remedies would not be as effective, even effective at all. So perhaps lifestyle/diet/etc. is pertinent to this conversation. ??

#11

Sometimes, it should be enough that we are led to think and investigate further, for ourselves.
Agreed!

#12

[QUOTE=ASB Stars;5007002]
You may have noticed that Thomas likes to attack first, and ask real questions, later…or disappear altogether…[/QUOTE] I don’t know who rattled your cage but keep doing the same and you’ll likely keep getting the same.

You want something different. Then try doing something different.

It isn’t that those aren’t reasonable questions.
Thanks :wink:

#13

So here we go once again with the back pedaling and attack.

You said:

Cushing’s disease: a new approach to therapy in equine and canine patients.

What you actually posted though was a link to some limited and aged observational study. That’s all it was. As far as I see it was nothing more and nothing less. It didn’t purport to be anything more and it never represented itself as some radical approach to therapy or treatment.

It seemed to me that was your misunderstanding and misinterpretation and misrepresentation.

THAT’S why I asked the totally reasonable questions posed.

So? Did I say it was “new”? No.
Erm YES YOU DID

Seems I was correct and once again you’ve not actually understood what you read.

#14

This is published in a homeopathy journal. When a similar study can get through the review process for a veterinary medicine journal, I’ll be impressed.

#15

“Erm”, that’s the title, proper, of the study as given by the author.

What you actually posted though was a link to some limited and aged observational study.
And as for ‘aged’ … well, think Louis Pasteur (1822-1895) beat out this study. How many of his studies still stand today?

#16

[QUOTE=Thomas_1;5007148]
I don’t know who rattled your cage but keep doing the same and you’ll likely keep getting the same.

You want something different. Then try doing something different.

Thanks ;)[/QUOTE]

Thomas- I was merely making an observation about your modus operandus. I didn’t start this thread, and was not the target of your usual venomous comments, this time.

#17

[QUOTE=caballus;5007119]
As with any treatment the whole individual needs to be assessed rather than merely treating the ‘symptoms’.
I agree – metabolic issues are an epidemic and need focused attention. My personal feeling is that excess of processed products fed are a large culprit in this. The lack of fresh food is a strong denominator when dealing with dis-eases in critters. (IMO).

Two interesting studies done: Pottenger’s Cat Studies and studies way, way back by Dr. Paul Kautchakoff, M.D which indicated that the body reacts to processed food as if it were violently poisoned because eating them causes increases in the levels of leukocytes severley enough to cause ‘Leukocytosis’. On the contrary, eating fresh foods did nothing to raise the leukocyte levels.
I’m sure there have been further studies since these were done but they are most thought-provoking, to say the least.

But - that’s for another discussion, I would think. However, if one were to simply ‘treat’ Cushings with the homeopathic remedies but did nothing to rectify what might be adding to the condition (diet/environment/reduction of stressors) then I would say that the remedies would not be as effective, even effective at all. So perhaps lifestyle/diet/etc. is pertinent to this conversation. ??[/QUOTE]

Completely agree with how we got here.

There is no magic bullet here. Lifestyle, diet…and etc. :lol: protocols are pivotal. But if you can add something to your arsenal which might help, and will not hurt, it always bears consideration.

#18

[QUOTE=caballus;5007175]
“Erm”, that’s the title, proper, of the study as given by the author.[/QUOTE] Erm I see. So you just regurgitated without any context or understanding.

And as for ‘aged’ … well, think Louis Pasteur (1822-1895) beat out this study. How many of his studies still stand today?

You’re honestly comparing that to the work of Louis Pasteur??

Well trust me if I was posting about pasteurisation and his fantastic work which led to vaccination improvements then I’d not be heading it “Radical new scientific discovery”

I also presume having read your views on vaccinations here regularly and often and particularly the likes of rabies vaccine that you’re probably the one thinking that Pasteur got it wrong.

But don’t count me in that brigade. I think you’re comparing chalk with cheese. [edit]

#19

[QUOTE=Thomas_1;5007194]
Erm I see. So you just regurgitated without any context or understanding.

You’re honestly comparing that to the work of Louis Pasteur??

Well trust me if I was posting about pasteurisation and his fantastic work which led to vaccination improvements then I’d not be heading it “Radical new scientific discovery”

I also presume having read your views on vaccinations here regularly and often and particularly the likes of rabies vaccine that you’re probably the one thinking that Pasteur got it wrong.

But don’t count me in that brigade. I think you’re comparing chalk with cheese. [edit].[/QUOTE]

LOL – I expected no less from you, Thomas.

#20

[QUOTE=Katy Watts;5007160]
This is published in a homeopathy journal. When a similar study can get through the review process for a veterinary medicine journal, I’ll be impressed.[/QUOTE]
Do you think the results of the study would be any different if gone through a review process for a veterinary medicine journal?

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