Maybe you can’t prove homeopathy for the same reason that you can’t prove the status of the cat…
I think that’s exactly why–it’s all happening on the level of quantum vibrations, beyond the reckoning of our crude instruments. And the vibrations apparently KNOW what they’re doing, because otherwise, the thought of all those poop vibrations in my system? NAAAAASTY. :lol: I have COTH to thank for that icky imaginary visual. Good thing I’m a nonbeliever and not squeamish. :dead:
[QUOTE=deltawave;5010860]
I think that’s exactly why–it’s all happening on the level of quantum vibrations, beyond the reckoning of our crude instruments. And the vibrations apparently KNOW what they’re doing, because otherwise, the thought of all those poop vibrations in my system? NAAAAASTY. :lol: I have COTH to thank for that icky imaginary visual. Good thing I’m a nonbeliever and not squeamish. :dead:[/QUOTE]
Hmmmm… how about the power of the mind to push the quantum odds from 50/50 to just a little bit one way or the other. Could that influence the outcome?
[QUOTE=deltawave;5010860]
I think that’s exactly why–it’s all happening on the level of quantum vibrations, beyond the reckoning of our crude instruments. And the vibrations apparently KNOW what they’re doing, because otherwise, the thought of all those poop vibrations in my system? NAAAAASTY. :lol: I have COTH to thank for that icky imaginary visual. Good thing I’m a nonbeliever and not squeamish. :dead:[/QUOTE]
Huh? So molecules don’t vibrate? You’re disputing basic physics principles? And what are ‘quantum’ vibrations?
Cab wasn’t talking about molecular vibrations, she was talking about cells vibrating to their own tune. Molecule =/= cell.
So Caballus, I have a question. If it’s all about the vibrations of your vital force (starting to feel like we’re in a bad porn here), why don’t you just buy a rife machine and bypass all the fiddly little bottles of poo-fested water? It’s homeopathy for dummies. They even come with their own charts. Tune to 412 to cure Lyme, 576 for cancer.
Also, do you have a local community college? Yes? Great. Go sign up for Gen Chem, Physiology and Microbiology. Just some cheap starter level classes that’ll clear up some confusion. You say you like to learn; I bet you’ll even enjoy them.
Delta,
As I’ve said way back in the pile of this thread (page 4? 3?), the study was so poorly constructed that there is no way you can ever interpret those results as valid. From start to end, the study is horrendously designed.
- No consistent basis of diagnosis of disease for the test subjects, or even definitive diagnosis in most animals (seriously? on clinical signs ALONE?)
- No workup of affected animals to define hyperadrenocorticism as the primary disease
- Hyperadrenocorticism in dogs not defined as pituitary-dependent or adrenal-dependent
- Dogs’ hyperadrenocorticism being compared/grouped with equine
- Not double-blinded or randomized study
- No placebo
- No measurable criteria for improvement (since hey! we never did any measurable tests on some animals in the first place!)
- Small number of test subjects
- Test subjects got a mixture of 2 homeopathic remedies…no way of knowing which one may have provided any effect
[QUOTE=deltawave;5010378]
But how much improvement did untreated subjects show? Or those treated conventionally? How did the investigators define “improvement”? For how long did improvements remain? What was the status of the animals six months later? Inquiring minds want to know. Do you have the full citation, or did you just read the abstract?[/QUOTE]
Also, if what Gwen is saying is true about homeopathy, and that each animal must be treated individually for maximum efficacy and to even see improvement (as it may be defined), WHY were all the animals grouped together and given the SAME treatment and dosages? Who’s telling the truth about homeopathy?
I don’t have a huge problem with homeopathy in general, or even what Gwen has said too much. I’m not a physicist. I don’t know about stuff like that. But honestly, if you know there is a disease for which we have a cure or a REALLY effective way that has been repeatedly proven to work…why not use it? If homeopathy is to be used in CONJUNCTION with traditional medicine, or allopathy, or whatever, why not put out studies that compare traditional treatment alone to traditional treatment plus a single homeopathic remedy?
Maybe someone without an agenda could enlighten me. Gwen, it seems like you always post these things that promote your beliefs, yet you dismiss them and the discussion that follows. It’s like you’re baiting us so you can bring attention to your beliefs and then get upset at us when we poke holes in the gems of studies and websites you bring us. I don’t get it.
when my moby on silent it vibrates and makes me answer it - does that count haha
—“Maybe someone without an agenda could enlighten me. Gwen, it seems like you always post these things that promote your beliefs, yet you dismiss them and the discussion that follows. It’s like you’re baiting us so you can bring attention to your beliefs and then get upset at us when we poke holes in the gems of studies and websites you bring us. I don’t get it.”—
I think you very well may have hit the nail on the head.:yes:
OP seems to be selling something and when times are slow, another thread brings in a few more clients.
There is always one more born, as B+B used to say.
The trouble with learning any real science is that you then realize how far out what you thought really was and losing your faith is never easy.
Ask the flat earthers about it.
On the other hand, I don’t think being so far out is funny at all, not when many times not using conventional and well proven methods to help right now can make an important difference in the health of our horses.:no:
I love COTH. This thread is hilarious.
[QUOTE=kdow;5011092]
I love COTH. This thread is hilarious.[/QUOTE]
Dunno-I ran outta popcorn, getting low on peyote. Gotta look at somethin’ else.
[QUOTE=merrygoround;5011093]
Dunno-I ran outta popcorn, getting low on peyote. Gotta look at somethin’ else.[/QUOTE]
Be sure it is natural and organic, it is better for you and your horses.
[QUOTE=Bluey;5011128]
Be sure it is natural and organic, it is better for you and your horses.:)[/QUOTE]
Better yet, it could be considered homeo-pathetic.
[QUOTE=merrygoround;5011093]
Dunno-I ran outta popcorn, getting low on peyote. Gotta look at somethin’ else.[/QUOTE]
You sounded a little like Hunter S. Thompson, there. :lol:
Go check the suitcase. See if your attorney has left anything in there that might help. Ether, maybe?
“There [s]he goes. One of God’s own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.” ~Raoul Duke
Huh? So molecules don’t vibrate? You’re disputing basic physics principles? And what are ‘quantum’ vibrations?
Thank you.
Cab wasn’t talking about molecular vibrations, she was talking about cells vibrating to their own tune. Molecule =/= cell.
My post
So, Herbals work on physical body systems in a physical sense; Homeopathy works on the Vital Force on a vibrational/energetic level. Atomic/subatomic level, if you will.
Def. of Molecular Vibration is “The theory that all atoms within a molecule are in continuous motion, vibrating at definite frequencies specific to the molecular structure as a whole as well as to groups of atoms within the molecule; the basis of spectroscopic analysis.”
Horses with Cushings do have tumors, but not all dogs. Some of these tumors continue to grow even if the drugs have suppressed the the symptoms of the Cushings, ie laminitis and hair growth.
I personally have had TWO Cushings horses go neurologic after years of being stable symtomatically. One, a 28 yr old arab had a massive a squamous/vascular “tumor” grow in his throat, mouth and obviously, his brain. He went blind virtually over night. He had to be put down before he bled out. Horrible.
Last Sept I lost my other arab when he went neurologic, also going blind in a matter of a couple of weeks. The ataxia came on very suddenly and I put him down when it was obvious he was in terrible pain and was having trouble not only moving but just standing. That was the toughest decision, because I had to plan it out over a few days rather than in an immediate crisis. He was 25.
I had several vets look at these horses, they were stable on low sugar hay, but both needed more than that the last year or so before they died. Then whole grains and moderate fat like flax and rice bran worked the best for them. Also some alfalfa when they started losing too much weight as their disease progressed. BOTH horses survived the laminitis and were on pergolide at the time of their deaths. BOTH horses had Cushings for over 6 years and were successfully treated for a longer period of time than what a lot of horses with Cushings do and did so happily and soundly.
While we did do glucose/insulin and ACTH testing for several years, once we tweaked their diet according to Dr. Kellon and then by their general condition adding or removing feed items by their weight, they avoided further laminitis and both were used lightly until the end of their lives. 25 and 28 are grand old ages, I wouldn’t have changed a thing.
I am not a vet, but both my vets agreed that brain tumors from the Cushings killed both horses, but not that the tumors themselves were the same. We did not send in their brains for necropsy, I just wanted them to be buried quietly in their own pasture. They deserved that.
So this opens up the question about these horses that are being treated conventionally or homeopathically…if we treat the symptoms and successfully decrease the symptoms, how many of these horses go neurologic instead of having to put them down from uncontrollable laminitis? This disease is not curable, only controlled until it progresses to far to be treated.
Thoughts?
Our thoughts on terminal illnesses and all our vets have concurred, is that, once you have to go to heroic measures, those that will demand the horse keeps enduring and the chances of some recovery for a fair quality of life are small, then it is time to let them go now, not wait for a crisis.
Then, those are questions that you can’t answer with rules of thumbs, they fall in the “it depends” category.
You have to measure all factors to make each decision as time goes on.
We got our then 29 year old over his penile squamous cell carcinoma because his health was excellent and the three operations and 12 local chemo treatments didn’t impact his quality of life at all.
He was not even in any discomfort, other than having to stay at the vets a few days, that he didn’t like.
He was in full remission after that.
Then, when a month ago his knee gave up on him and he was dead lame, we could have intervened and tried this and that, but on a 30 year old, that didn’t make any sense any more, for his sake.
What his knee needed would have required he endured much and at his age and looking at his other lower joints, the chances of recovery were too small.
As I mentioned, each case you have to determine on it’s own merits.
[QUOTE=caballus;5011173]
My post
Def. of Molecular Vibration is “The theory that all atoms within a molecule are in continuous motion, vibrating at definite frequencies specific to the molecular structure as a whole as well as to groups of atoms within the molecule; the basis of spectroscopic analysis.”[/QUOTE]
Before you leap into the areas of physical chemistry, quantum physics and vibrational spectroscopy, I would recommend the study of more simpler concepts such as:
concentration and dilution
equilibrium and dissociation constants
molecular interactions and binding affinities -especially as it pertains to biomolecules.
oh,
and don’t forget calculus. You really should have that before starting into the previously mentioned topics of physical chemistry, etc.
Anyway, these topics all should be covered at a basic level in the entry level science coursework already recommended.
[QUOTE=millerra;5011231]
Before you leap into the areas of physical chemistry, quantum physics and vibrational spectroscopy, I would recommend the study of more simpler concepts such as:
concentration and dilution
equilibrium and dissociation constants
molecular interactions and binding affinities -especially as it pertains to biomolecules.
oh,
and don’t forget calculus. You really should have that before starting into the previously mentioned topics of physical chemistry, etc.
Anyway, these topics all should be covered at a basic level in the entry level science coursework already recommended.[/QUOTE]
Thank you.
[QUOTE=caballus;5011173]
Thank you.
My post
Def. of Molecular Vibration is “The theory that all atoms within a molecule are in continuous motion, vibrating at definite frequencies specific to the molecular structure as a whole as well as to groups of atoms within the molecule; the basis of spectroscopic analysis.”[/QUOTE]
Yea, no.
I have no idea where you got this definition but this is wrong at enough levels that it would take a semester of physics/lab work to explain it. It takes a basic principle (atoms are in motion) and goes off into ignorance.
Huh? So molecules don’t vibrate? You’re disputing basic physics principles? And what are ‘quantum’ vibrations?
I think there is someone here who enjoys arguing for the sake of argument more than I do. And uses the casual-ness of colloquial language as weaponry. Christ, get rid of the red pen and see the forest for the trees, please. You want to go toe to toe with fundamental scientific knowledge, just name the venue. :rolleyes:
Vibrations happening on the level of quantum/subatomic particles is what I meant. Sure, you can expand that to the molecular level. Cells vibrating to their own frequency? Not so much. Yes, I am convinced that vibrations of atoms are THERE. I am not convinced that having a bottle of water (or vodka) reputed to contain some of these vibrations is going to impact health and disease. It is completely illogical to think that this vibratory energy/force/whatever can be mixed up, bottled, and directed in this fashion. :no:
Unless, as PerchX intimates, the mind can influence these bottled vibrations slightly. But if that’s the case, why not do away with the bottle and just WILL these interactions?
