So, caballus, using your logic and explanations, then how do you control for the electromagnetic resonances that pervade the space-time continuum? Even before man, photons, neutrinos, anti-protons, and other sub atomic massless and low mass particles interacted with atoms of every substance that exists on Earth.
Do you really understand what vibrational energy is? What you present does not follow the laws of physics which are the most basic laws.
I can suggest several good books. Or take a gander at the subatomic work being done at Fermilabs in Chicago.
I have done a lot of work looking at cells via multiple resonant methods (laser, FT-IR, NMR, etc.) and I have yet to see a single resonant frequency. Generally you get a broad spectrum which indicates there is NO resonant frequency!
reed,
so why put a damper on all our fun with all that boring physics stuff? Physics created the atomic bomb. That makes it bad, right? We don’t need science. We have belief!
I substituted the words immune system for “Vital Force” in my above writing. Perhaps I should not have done that but I’ve found that when I do, people who are not familiar with the homeopathic “vital force” understand the basics better that way. I also use the words immune system with regard to homeopathics because of the responses I’ve gotten when I try to explain what the ‘vital force’ is … seems people shut down their minds automatically as soon as they read those words. So, just trying to simplify but perhaps I’m confusing instead. My apologies if this is so.
You so often talk about “boosting the immune system” or “strengthening immunity” or “rebalancing the immune system” and every time you write about such matters I ask you what you mean by it. You jump up and down and get excitable because I ask you questions and then another particular poster parachutes in but at the risk of becoming boring, here we go again:
What do you actually mean by “boost the immune system”? Please be VERY specific?
How would you evidence it was “boosted or strengthened or balanced”
Then precisely what do you do (give) to “boost”, “strength” or “balance” it?
I get upset because usually the question of what I mean is preluded with some derogatory comment about me, personally, and my opinions or thinking. I don’t mind discussing a TOPIC but just like you or anyone else, when personally attacked, the defenses go up and thinking becomes clouded.
“Boosting” or “strengthening” with HERBS is completely different than ‘rebalancing the immune system’ using homeopathics. Using HERBALS one is using a tangible, concrete substance that interacts on a molecular basis to boost or strengthen or cleanse the particular system (in this discussion it would be the immune system). Each herb has particular properties that affect a living organism in some manner. There are some that are reputed to help strengthen certain systems in the body.
Now – using the words VITAL FORCE instead of the simpler “immune system” with regard to homeopathy – the VITAL FORCE, as Hahnemann explains within the concepts of Homeopathy, and is so aptly described by Leeza D’Souza, “energy prevalent in every living being, as the “spiritual vital force” that animated the living organism and ruled with unbounded sway, in order to keep the body working in perfect harmony. This ‘perfect harmony’, in scientific terms means maintaining homeostasis. When a person is healthy, this vital force functions at its optimum resulting in perfect homeostasis.”
Homeopathics work on the VITAL FORCE of an individual (remember, the VF is what I’ve used the substituted word ‘immune system’ for easier understanding but I botched it up trying to paint a more simple picture for those unfamiliar with homeopathy)
So, Herbals work on physical body systems in a physical sense; Homeopathy works on the Vital Force on a vibrational/energetic level. Atomic/subatomic level, if you will.
Maybe that clear it up better? As I said its such a paradigm shift in thinking that it makes it hard to explain to those who haven’t make that shift or even thought about it or are completely negating it altogether.
Also,
What’s the dose (quantity and duration) for it to be effective?
In “Classical” Homeopathy just ONE dose is given in chronic situations. In acute there may be a number of doses given in relatively short intervals - every 10 - 15 mins until symptoms subside. Typically, chronic remedies effects last for up to 3 months when another evaluation must be done to determine what is currently needed at that time. With acute remedies in an acute situation, the situation is almost immediately resolved or the effects last up to 7 or 10 days when reassessment is then needed.
and finally,
What’s the evidence? How is it measured?
With horses or other animals that’s easy – they respond or they don’t. Blood tests, physical exams, etc. can be done to verify whether or not the ‘situation’ is resolved as in any other allopathic treatment. That is adviseable with chronic states. With acute, the ‘evidence’ is plainly seen simply by the mental and physical state of the animal.
Again, I apologize to be confusing interchanging the terms ‘immune system’ and ‘vital force’. I guess I won’t do that again and just let the term “Vital Force” stand on its own.
I have done a lot of work looking at cells via multiple resonant methods (laser, FT-IR, NMR, etc.) and I have yet to see a single resonant frequency. Generally you get a broad spectrum which indicates there is NO resonant frequency!
Reed[/QUOTE] How does one ‘see’ a resonant frequency particularly one that is of ‘spirit’ in nature? I don’t understand.
[QUOTE=RAyers;5009792]
Even before man, photons, neutrinos, anti-protons, and other sub atomic massless and low mass particles interacted with atoms of every substance that exists on Earth. [/QUOTE]
If something has no mass/is massless can it truly be a particle?
[QUOTE=caballus;5009820]
How does one ‘see’ a resonant frequency particularly one that is of ‘spirit’ in nature? I don’t understand.[/QUOTE]
This is classic bait and switch. You bring up definitive PHYSICAL explanations (hey, you used Webster’s Dictionary) and then suddenly switch to the idea that everything is spiritual to avoid explanation. No wonder you don’t understand. Nobody understands. Homeopathy by YOUR own definitions now is EXPLICITLY FAITH BASED and has NO physical basis. Thus, you negate your own justifications for why we should care about the original article.
There are well defined pathways and mechanisms nowadays that explain and describe homeostasis. I see little of Leeza D’Souza’s “vital force” when looking at the release of Ca+2 from bone for neurologic function etc.
[QUOTE=caballus;5009774]
Actually, Katy – since everything does, vibrate with a specific frequency, that does include the grass. [/QUOTE] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCeD_6Y3GQc
My only experience first-hand with homeopathy wasn’t a very good one. It was a horse I trim, she came up lame in one foot. Vet diagnosed navicular bursa inflammation. Owner treated horse with a homeopathic preparation specifically formulated for navicular. Apparently it’s a powder you mix in the water. It’s supposed to increase circulation and hydration throughout the body, which supposedly will cure the navicular pain. The mare wouldn’t drink the water and kept dumping the bucket over. The guy who sold it to her said it doesn’t matter, at long as she’s sticking her nose inside the bucket and smelling the air inside the bucket, then she’s being treated.
Turned out the mare had a piece of cartilage that was floating inside the joint and was causing her pain.
As the immune system has been mentioned, and issues surrounding the immune system are being bandied about, I would like to get the take of the scientific group, which includes Rayers, DW, and more. Please bear in mind that it has been suggested to me, by more than one Vet, that horses with metabolic issues generally also have abnormal immune systems.
What kinds of issues do you feel cause a compromised immune system? What kinds of things can be done, within the scope of the medical world, in order to remedy a compromised immune system?
[QUOTE=Auventera Two;5009848]
My only experience first-hand with homeopathy wasn’t a very good one. It was a horse I trim, she came up lame in one foot. Vet diagnosed navicular bursa inflammation. Owner treated horse with a homeopathic preparation specifically formulated for navicular. Apparently it’s a powder you mix in the water. It’s supposed to increase circulation and hydration throughout the body, which supposedly will cure the navicular pain. The mare wouldn’t drink the water and kept dumping the bucket over. The guy who sold it to her said it doesn’t matter, at long as she’s sticking her nose inside the bucket and smelling the air inside the bucket, then she’s being treated.
Turned out the mare had a piece of cartilage that was floating inside the joint and was causing her pain.
So honestly, I just don’t even know what to say.[/QUOTE] Well, that was just dumb! LOL (not you but the ‘treatment’) … a classic misuse of ‘Classical Homeopathy’. And a perfect example of when allopathy needs to work WITH homeopathics.
[QUOTE=RAyers;5009839]
This is classic bait and switch. You bring up definitive PHYSICAL explanations (hey, you used Webster’s Dictionary) and then suddenly switch to the idea that everything is spiritual to avoid explanation. No wonder you don’t understand. Nobody understands. Homeopathy by YOUR own definitions now is EXPLICITLY FAITH BASED and has NO physical basis. Thus, you negate your own justifications for why we should care about the original article.
There are well defined pathways and mechanisms nowadays that explain and describe homeostasis. I see little of Leeza D’Souza’s “vital force” when looking at the release of Ca+2 from bone for neurologic function etc.
Reed[/QUOTE]No bait and switch as I am aware. If you mean using ‘immune system’ in place of ‘vital force’ … I explained why I did that and I apologized for causing any confusion. But see? Hahnemann describes ‘disease’ as spirit in nature – NOT physical. The ‘physical’ manifestations (physical symptoms) are only ‘signs’ that the vital force is imbalanced. If the vital force were in a state of ‘homeostasis’ then the physical body would not get dis-eased. How anyone could do that and be totally balanced in today’s world is beyond me but – that’s the explanation as Hahnemann describes.
I really don’t care if anyone cares about the original article or anything else. Everyone believes the way they want. Science is tangible – one can SEE bacteria under a microscope etc. But doesn’t life go way beyond just what can be seen or tasted, touched or heard? Why is it, for example, that one person ‘believes’ in one thing but not in another while the reverse could be true for the next person? What makes us who we are? Is it purely chemical in nature? Yeah, these are questions that anyone can ask and no one can answer. Why is it that you could see an old hag in an illustration while someone else sees a beautiful woman? We are each unique in the way we feel, hear, see, perceive, believe … I don’t, personally, feel that it is all chemical and tangible. What is spirit? When someone says something is ‘spiritual’ in nature, what do you think of? Is what you perceive the same as your wife/daughter/son/friend/professor/car mechanic/etc?
The PHYSICAL responses that I have seen in animals with respect to Homeopathy is what ‘made me a believer’ in it. There was no other explanation, at the time, of WHY the animals reacted the way they did to a little, tiny pillule. From there I used and use them on myself. Hubby uses; daughter (paramedic) uses them; other daughter laughs! grin …
We could get into a whole, deep, philosophical discussion on all this but I’ve got work to do and frankly, am not interested in ‘arguing’ philosophy. Not to be rude – but just don’t want to do that. I know that which I’ve seen; and with regard to this conversation, I was asked a couple of questions and I answered them to the best of my ability at the time. That’s all. Not trying to ‘convince’ anyone one way or the other – just discussing and answering/addressing questions/comments to me.
Here’s a good explanation of some of the homeopathic terms and thinking …
(not my writing but a student’s)
VITAL FORCE - also referred to as the “life force” or “life priciple”. That which is inherrent in all living organisms that differs them from non-living material objects. It’s the invisible energy or spirit which allows the organism to function in it’s most perfect manner. Without it, the organism can not live.
[Organon Intro., Organon Chap 1, Organon Glossary, Beyond Flat Earth Medicine pgs. 49-50]
HEALTH - when a person’s body, mind and soul are all in tune and running in harmony with one another, therefore showing no “symptoms of disease”.
[Organon Chap.1:9,]
DISEASE - alteration of a body no longer in tune which allows the symptoms of the mistunements to display in a physical manner.
[Organon Chap1:8.8, Chap 1:19]
CURE - alteration of a body back into attunement where there are no longer any physical signs of disease.
[QUOTE=caballus;5009924]
Well, that was just dumb! LOL (not you but the ‘treatment’) … a classic misuse of ‘Classical Homeopathy’. And a perfect example of when allopathy needs to work WITH homeopathics.[/QUOTE]
Really? You think mixing a powder with water is a use of any kind of homeopathy, classical or otherwise? And a homeopathic remedy for navicular? Really?
What kinds of issues do you feel cause a compromised immune system? What kinds of things can be done, within the scope of the medical world, in order to remedy a compromised immune system?
Nice deflection from your own falacious logic.
While I could fill this forum’s bandwidth with detailed scientific evidence based, explanations of immune function, it would not convince those who have adopted the dogma of homeopathy.
This is where snake oil salesman have always stepped in and sold the public on their miracle cures. Scientific medicine does not have an answer to everything and freely admits it. As a result, it is very attractive to sufferers who have not yet found relief from a scientific approach, to buy lines such as “a properly prescribed homeopathic remedy in the right concentration has never failed”.
Rule #1 for detecting medical charlatans: If someone says they can cure everything…they are lying.
Rule #2: never argue religion/belief with logic/science.
[QUOTE=ASB Stars;5009851]
As the immune system has been mentioned, and issues surrounding the immune system are being bandied about, I would like to get the take of the scientific group, which includes Rayers, DW, and more. Please bear in mind that it has been suggested to me, by more than one Vet, that horses with metabolic issues generally also have abnormal immune systems.
What kinds of issues do you feel cause a compromised immune system? What kinds of things can be done, within the scope of the medical world, in order to remedy a compromised immune system?[/QUOTE]
One belief is that the immune system requires the availability of specific nutrients (molecules) to function optimally according to the “instructions” of a given individuals genetic sequence.
If he immune system is overburdened in any one (or more) area(s) of defense, the supply of nutrients can become exhausted, and a disease process may then gain “territory”…
In order for the immune system to regain full function, the nutrients need to be replaced at a rate that keeps up with the need for their metabolization.
[QUOTE=CatOnLap;5010012]
Nice deflection from your own falacious logic.
While I could fill this forum’s bandwidth with detailed scientific evidence based, explanations of immune function, it would not convince those who have adopted the dogma of homeopathy.
This is where snake oil salesman have always stepped in and sold the public on their miracle cures. Scientific medicine does not have an answer to everything and freely admits it. As a result, it is very attractive to sufferers who have not yet found relief from a scientific approach, to buy lines such as “a properly prescribed homeopathic remedy in the right concentration has never failed”.
Rule #1 for detecting medical charlatans: If someone says they can cure everything…they are lying.
Rule #2: never argue religion/belief with logic/science.[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure wherein the answer to the question that I posed lies in this reply. If you could also be more specific about my “fallacious logic”, I would appreciate it! (fallacious has two “l’s”)
[QUOTE=Androcles;5009982]
Really? You think mixing a powder with water is a use of any kind of homeopathy, classical or otherwise? And a homeopathic remedy for navicular? Really?[/QUOTE] Huh? I said it was a classic MISuse of homeopathy. In other words – that was not classical homeopathy. Period.
[QUOTE=ASB Stars;5009851]
…What kinds of issues do you feel cause a compromised immune system? What kinds of things can be done, within the scope of the medical world, in order to remedy a compromised immune system?[/QUOTE]
Your question, while valid is too simple to engender a simple answer. It all depends on the disease state. The immune compromise could be due to the metabolic condition thus fixing the immune system would do little correct the underlying condition.
You would need to clarify what the disease is in order to describe a remedy.
