I need help deciphering the panels. I know what the top line means by trying to compare two saddles.
PA 305 RT RG+
PA 705 RT
-
305 - 5mm foam added to the back part of the saddle to give it a lift.
RT - shaving for the point of scapula
RG+ - wider shaving around the wither area -
705 - 5mm of foam taken from the front of the saddle to free up the shoulder
RT - shaving for the point of scapula
Both are minimal in modification but on opposite ends of the saddle, so it will depend how your horse is built and how you like the saddle. Some people liked to add a 305 of semi-deep saddles to “help them out of it”. Others needed the little lift to balance the saddle.
Thank you so much for this. It is extremely helpful!! Can you help with this one too? We are going to look at it today. PA 205 310 RT. Thank you again.
Happy to help!
205 - 5mm of foam added to the entire saddle.
310 - 10mm of foam added to the back of the saddle.
RT - shaving for the point of scapula
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So this one seems to be more for a smaller horse?
Not necessarily. That 10mm could have been added for a number of reasons including horse conformation, rider preference in the saddle, or even a rep that wasn’t confident in their fitting.
An additional 10mm is quite a bit, so off the top of my a head I’d say they probably did a 205 all the way around to add wither clearance, and then added the 5mm in the 300 area to balance the saddle and then an additional 5mm to give the rider a lift if they felt like they were “stuck” in the saddle if it was a deep or half deep. That was something that many of my old coworkers did, but there is honestly no telling why they did it unless you can speak to the person that originally made it/bought it.
Firstly I have to say thank you, because your replies on several CWD panel threads have been incredibly helpful and I’ve learnt a ton reading them!
I have a bit of a puzzle I’m hoping you might be able to help with. I currently have a PA 305 RT RG. For the most part it fits quite nicely, aside from the fact it’s bridging right in the middle of the panel. Do you happen to know what number references that center part of the panel? Someone has posted a used PA 305 905 RT RG and I’m trying to figure out if that might work for this horse or if I should be looking for a completely different panel configuration.
Thanks again for all your insights!
Glad I could put these codes embedded into my brain to good use! 
This picture is very poorly illustrated by my unsteady hand to show where the panel codes are. Please note this is not exact placement:
Yellow = 800
Blue = 900
Pink = 300
A 900 panel could solve your bridging problem, as it takes from the area behind the scapula and goes back. A 905 could work for you if the 305 is causing the bridge, and if your horse isn’t super thick around the winter. My concern with a 905 + 305 would be a saddle that might through you forward and out of balance and you might get the same bridge. I’ve also highlighted the 800 panel here because ultimately the 805 + 305 combine to make a 905 (I know my drawing doesn’t make it seem like it does, but I just can’t draw a circle).
Granted - this would ALL depend on your horses back, how you like to sit in your saddle, saddle model, how your horses moves, etc. These are just best guesses based purely on panel and best case of how your horse is built. Another thing to consider is the wither & sensitivity in that area. I had one horse that could NOT stand much pressure on his wither from a previous saddle issue and a 805/905 absolutely would not work on him due to adding paneling around that area. Just putting that out there as its not for everyone, but it also does work well on plenty of horses!
Hopefully that helps some? Feel free to DM pictures/lunging video if you ever need as well!
Always happy to try and elaborate or draw better diagrams. LOL
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@Belmont
Could you please help me understand these codes?
And for what type of horses will they be suitable for?
PA 705 RT RG
PA 705 RT
PA 805 RT RG
Thank you in advance.
To be honest your posts are easiest to understand 
PA 705 RT RG: This is 5mm out of the front of the saddle (the uncircled area in front of the blue & yellow circles on the diagram). RT is just a shaving of the area where the top of the scapula hits the saddle. If you run your hand along the 705 area of the panel, you can feel a slight change in panel. The RG is shaving around the wither area for the thicker withered horses.
PA705 RT: The same thing as above just minus the RG shaving.
PA 805 RT RG: PA 805 is 5mm of foam added to the area behind the scapula (used on horses with the shoulder dips, larger withers, etc). It is the rough yellow circle in the diagram above this post. The RT is the same shaving of the area where the top of scapula sits on the front of the saddle. The RG is the same shaving I mentioned above around the withers.
Hopefully that helps!
Thank you @Belmont 
Apart from the panels. Does CWD describe the width of the tree? Or are all/most of them the standard?
They are all pretty standard.
I don’t remember the exact width, unfortunately.
The older SE03s were wider at the tree point, but they have since changed the SE03 to the same trees as the other classic models on the new trees (changed ~2018/2019).
You could order a wider tree (stamped AO), but I don’t know if you can on the newer tree models since they are a composite mix.
I am very grateful for your the help 
I’m looking for used saddle but I need standard tree so that’s why I’m asking. Because in Mademoiselle model I have never seen any stamp according to the width so I have guessed that most of them are standard
Thank you once again
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@Belmont you really seem to know the panels well!
Could you please help with this one:
2023 SEO2 17 TR 2C PL
PA 205 905 RT
I understand the seat size, depth and flap configuration, but I’m not sure about the PL code.
Does this mean extra wide twist or standard size twist for the classic models.
Also not sure about the panel configuration.
The mare I ride is a 25 year old Zangersheide warmblood but super energetic, and still competing.
She also has a bit of a sway back.
Do you think this panel configuration could work with for her with a bit of tweaking?
Thank you so much in advance!
For sure!
2023 - Year
SE02 - Semi Deep, Classic Model
17 - 17in seat
2C - 2 Flap, Forward
PL - Pommel Large (wide twist)
PA 205 - 5mm of foam added to the whole saddle
PA 905 - 5mm foam added from the shoulder pocket back. (blue circle on image below, obviously the circles are placed perfect but thats about where the panel would be)
So yes - it does have a wide twist on it!
As for the panel, it could work, it just depends how bad the sway is.
There is a chance it could bridge if she is quite swayed.
It might also be a little tight if she has a prominent shoulder.
I used the 205/905 panel combo on higher withered horses with a flatter back without a prominent scapula, if that makes sense.
Well… I have to say I sure am impressed - I can’t even get that info from the local rep.
Learning so much from your posts - thank you very much.
-
How would the PA 205/905 RT combo compare to the pro panel 705/205/305. Do all saddles start off as a pro or standard and are then modified from there - some foam added / some foam taken away?
-
What would be some reasons why someone would order a large pommel / wide twist.
I would love for this saddle to work for me, but I’m fairly petite 5’3". Any thoughts on this?
I understand panels can be modified, but I’m not sure the twist can be.
It’s so helpful to better understand what I could potentially be buying.
It’s a very beautiful saddle and seat size, flap configuration, leather colour are all exactly what I have been looking for. It’s arriving to me in about a week and I can try it out for 15 days.
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Of course, @Asti Glad I could help!
Gotta put all this stuff I learned over the years to use somewhere.
Glad I can do it on COTH!
- All saddles start as a ST panel. From there foam is added/shaved/subtracted. It gets a little more muddy when you go to modifying pre-existing panels and down (post saddle production), because they panels aren’t replaced, but that’s a different can of worms.
- A pro-panel is different among every teaching class/manager/sales rep. A 705/205/305 was a Ludo invention (past manager, one of my old managers actually) and is what many consider pro, but that is not what everyone considers pro. The office considers a pro panel ST, some east coast reps have a different configuration, and other territories have their own.
*To answer your question:
705 - 5mm of foam shaved from the front of the saddle
205 - 5mm of foam added to the entire saddle
305 - 5mm of foam added to the back of the saddle
So if this is an off the production like saddle, the idea is to lift the saddle 5mm all the way around, take that 5mm out of the shoulder so its not too tight, and then add 5mm in the back to either help level out the saddle or help the rider (depends on horse build).
The difference between the 205/905 and the “Cali Pro” (what I call the 705/205/305) is that the 205/905 is generally going to be for something with a higher wither and maybe that isn’t super wide around the scapula. Ultimately, you have 10mm of foam added from the scapula gusset area of the saddle and all the way back and 5mm of extra foam added to the front of the saddle to help that lift/possibly narrow the saddle a little.
In the Cali Pro - you ultimately add 5mm to the middle of the saddle,10mm to the back, and bring the front of the saddle back down to standard to “free up” the scapula by removing the foam (705).
Hopefully that isn’t too confusing!
- Pommel is SO personal. I’m wide hipped and built for manual labor, yet I LOVE an extra narrow twist. Ultimately - it comes down to your personal comfort and your skeletal shape. No one is the same. I had some petite riders like the wider pommel saddles, and I had others dislike them. The wide pommel is either going to feel like magic for you (secure and comfortable, leg placed exactly where it needs to be, etc) or its going to feel like hell (uncomfortable pressure, constantly fighting your leg, etc). You will be able to tell in a few rides, I promise!
And you are correct, a pommel can not be modified. That is all part of the tree and build of the saddle.
Definitely, take your trial time! Obviously, if you sit in it and hate it, move on. However, if you think its a good fit for your boy and you think you like it, keeping riding in it. At least a weeks worth of riding to really get a feel for it and how your horse responds. Make the most of those 15 days!
Hi @Belmont! Just adding to this already existing thread - I have a 2023 “classic” SE01 on trial and it’s the best of everything I remember from my 2007 SE01, except it is soooo narrow. It’s a 705 105 RT… what exactly is 105?
Looking for something to fit a mare with big shoulder and long withers that lead straight into a very flat back with little dip, and really struggling.
Hey @Belmont
Can you assist with mine? I’m trying to sell it and I’ve been asked what size tree it is.
SE03 180 CC 3L
PA 705 205 805 RT+ RG
20 7660
Thanks so much!!
Hey @Sarahseitz
Sorry I’m just getting to this. Newborns take a lot of time! LOL
So you’ve got an extra flat, 18" saddle with a 3L flap.
These saddles used to be made with a special wood tree than ran a little wider than the normal SE01 & SE02 trees. However, they switched them in like ~2019ish and now all three saddles are made with a mix composite & wood tree with different seats. I left around this time and never even carried one of these demos in my car, pushing my clients to order before the new trees came out, because they were going to fit different than the demo.
So long story short - I don’t know the exact width of the tree now a days. Its just a normal CWD tree, not wide or narrow. Your panel however is:
705 - 5mm of foam out of the front of the saddle
205 - 5mm of foam added to the entire saddle (in theory its added and then the 705 is shaved off… in theory)
805 - 5mm of foam added to the wither gusset area to add extra clearance.
RT+ - Extra foam shaved at the point of shoulder
RG - Foam shaved around the wither area
I hope this somewhat helps! You can always measure your “dot to dot”, however a dot to dot measurement isn’t an accurate tree measurement really, so I don’t find them helpful personally. However, some people do!
