CWD: Redo on custom saddle?

[vxf111]

soloud, you’re way off base. I respect you plenty but you’re nit picking posts and implying things inside them that just aren’t there.

I realize the OP is currently riding different horses. But the only way I can help educate her about saddle fit and help her address the lack of sitting level is to see the saddle on SOME horse without all the padding. Then we can discuss how it sits and what might be done to make it sit more level. She can then apply that information to other horses having learned something about the saddle and its fit to a horse’s back.

No one told her to talk back to the barn manager or even to talk to the BM at all. I am suggesting that the OP get a good shim pad and learn how to assess saddle fit for herself. Then she can use the shim pad as necessary and that should help her issues without needing to involve the input of people who don’t seem to be that into helping her make the saddle fit. I also suggested the get a Thinline if there’s a requirement for half pads, because at least that affects the saddle fit less.

If it’s her BM’s way or the road, I don’t know why she’d come here asking for advice?! Clearly she’s seeking some sort of advice or a second opinion.

You’re looking for condesencion where none is there. OP didn’t take my posts that way. No one else seems to have taken my posts that way. All along I’ve been trying to help. I don’t know all the intimate details of this poster’s riding history. She asked for advice about saddle fit, I am trying to give that advice but also help her learn/start thinking herself so she can make more education decisions.

Maybe you can offer her some useful advice?

[Bogie]

[QUOTE=amnich123;7606812]

I wouldn’t have Patty Barnett come down, I’d probably call her or email her and send pictures/videos if possible. No way would I pay to have someone come down to look at something which itself, cannot be changed. You make very good points in your first two paragraphs.[/QUOTE]

What Patty might be able to do, since she travels to Mass, is show you how to use shimmed pads to fix the saddle you have. It is difficult to do that remotely with photos. She could also give you an honest opinion about whether the saddle fits YOU. I think you are getting not-so-great advice from the eyes on the ground where you are.

Obviously, she can’t “fix” a foam saddle. That’s not the point. But she might be able to help you understand saddle fit so that you can make your $$$ work for you. I

Is that worth $50 or whatever she would charge? Absolutely. It’s a drop in the bucket compared to how much you have shelled out for a saddle that isn’t working for you right now.

I’ve worked with Gary Severson for about 16 years. During some of that time, I’ve had saddles that I was pretty sure the horse would grow into as it muscled up, but I didn’t always want to have it flocked tight or have the tree re-sized. I learned MUCH more by working with someone onsite than I could ever have done remotely.

[IPEsq]

OP, in your latest picture, the saddle looks like it is sitting pretty well on that horse. How did the seat/flap feel on that horse compared to the previous one?

[soloudinhere]

@Bogie;7606852

Is that worth $50 or whatever she would charge? Absolutely. It’s a drop in the bucket compared to how much you have shelled out for a saddle that isn’t working for you right now.

I sincerely doubt that she charges $50 to travel all the way from Barkhamsted, CT to Buzzards Bay. That’s ~200 miles and 3 hours with no traffic for her.

Now, she might be coming to that area anyway, I don’t know-- but I can’t imagine that the cost is $50 to drive 3 hours to teach you how to put shims in a pad.

[soloudinhere]

[QUOTE=vxf111;7606827]

Maybe you can offer her some useful advice?[/QUOTE]

There is no useful advice here. She could know everything there is to know about saddle fit, but it’s not going to make a saddle that doesn’t fit a horse, somehow fit a horse.

The actual truth is that these french saddles are not that versatile and don’t really fit many horses in the first place. My recommendation to her would be to try to get CWD to take the saddle back, since it doesn’t fit the rider. It won’t ever fit the rider since it doesn’t fit the horses it’s being placed on.

Without one horse to match it up to, or even a selection of maybe one or two, the exercise of trying to fine tune the fit to any given horse in a barn of 50+ horses is just not even worthwhile.

She needs her trainer’s advice on what to do, since trainer told her to buy a saddle in the first place.

[vxf111]

Not really that different from my advice early on in the thread-- CWD should make her satisfied.

[soloudinhere]

[QUOTE=vxf111;7607085]
Not really that different from my advice early on in the thread-- CWD should make her satisfied.[/QUOTE]

Our idea of satisfied is different in this case.

You think they should make her a saddle that suits, I don’t believe they’ll be able to and think the op should refund and either a) buy 2 cheaper saddles in differing fits so that she has some options or b) just use the barn’s saddles because I sincerely doubt they are that bad and are ruining her riding.

[vxf111]

Since the smartest person in the room is now posting, I’ll just bow out.

[soloudinhere]

[QUOTE=vxf111;7607119]
Since the smartest person in the room is now posting, I’ll just bow out.[/QUOTE]

I see we’re still not being condescending.

[french_fry]

OP, it sounds like you do not have this issue in the other saddle(s) that you ride in. Is that correct? Sometimes a certain style saddle + imperfect fit on horse(s) + rider (bad) habits can just result in that perfect storm of “it should be fine but it feels awful.” I have totally been there. It is such a frustrating mistake because it should work and it doesn’t.

I would think really, really hard about whether you are willing to “make it work” with a 5,000 dollar saddle. A 1,200 dollar saddle, maybe? But a brand new custom French saddle? That would be a hard pill for me to swallow.

Personally? If I was in your situation I would be exploring returning the saddle. This may not be the right time for you to purchase a French custom saddle, unfortunately. Could you continue riding in the saddle(s) you were riding in before or barring that look for an exact copy of a saddle you know you like?

[vxf111]

Though post 59 might be read for comprehension

[Bogie]

[QUOTE=soloudinhere;7607060]
I sincerely doubt that she charges $50 to travel all the way from Barkhamsted, CT to Buzzards Bay. That’s ~200 miles and 3 hours with no traffic for her.

Now, she might be coming to that area anyway, I don’t know-- but I can’t imagine that the cost is $50 to drive 3 hours to teach you how to put shims in a pad.[/QUOTE]

I suspect Patty is in the area on a routine basis – not suggesting that she make a special trip! The trouble is that it’s difficult to find someone who really knows what they are doing. Patty worked with Gary for many years and I think she does a great job and can provide an honest assessment.

I agree with your point that the French saddles don’t fit everything and that it may be difficult to solve this problem with the existing saddle. The OP was actually advised not to order a saddle like this at the beginning of the process when she was posting under a different name . . .

In her shoes, I would have bought a good used saddle with a medium or medium/wide tree, depending on the type of horses she rides, and would have picked something I knew fit me and which I could ride in before I bought it. At any given time I have 6-7 saddles in my barn that all fit me but which will accommodate different horses. I don’t actually need that many saddles, but it’s handy to have them and because I know what works for me and I’ve picked them up at very good prices over the years. I have a very long femur and many saddles won’t work for me but there are so many flap options available now that you have far more choices than in the past.

I do own one custom saddle (not French) and am lucky that it was exactly as ordered and it fits me very well. I’ve also been lucky that it’s fit most of the horses I’ve owned since I bought it 12 years ago and since it’s wool flocked, it can be adjusted without swapping out the panels.

Based on the things I’ve read on COTH and other places, you couldn’t pay me to order another custom saddle! Way too many good saddles on the used market and too many horror stories about saddles that didn’t fit horse, rider or both.

[Thoroughbred1201]

[QUOTE=french fry;7607123]

I would think really, really hard about whether you are willing to “make it work” with a 5,000 dollar saddle. A 1,200 dollar saddle, maybe? But a brand new custom French saddle? That would be a hard pill for me to swallow.

Personally? If I was in your situation I would be exploring returning the saddle. This may not be the right time for you to purchase a French custom saddle, unfortunately. Could you continue riding in the saddle(s) you were riding in before or barring that look for an exact copy of a saddle you know you like?[/QUOTE]

This makes sense to me. I may be missing something here, and it’s probably a moot point at this point - but if you don’t own a horse, why are you buying a custom saddle? Generally, spending that much money, you are fitting a horse/rider combination. There are some really nice mid-range saddles that pretty much fit everything, that can be purchased used (or new) and will do the job just fine.

Got to a tack store, sit in a bunch, and bring a bunch home to ride in. I’m with earlier posters - you know whether it will work or not within the first couple of rides. If it’s this much work - your position isn’t solid enough to break in a new saddle, and you should ride in a well-broke in used saddle for awhile until your position is solid . . . or this isn’t the right saddle.

My 2 cents. Worth exactly the amount paid for it.

[amnich123]

[QUOTE=IPEsq;7606926]
OP, in your latest picture, the saddle looks like it is sitting pretty well on that horse. How did the seat/flap feel on that horse compared to the previous one?[/QUOTE]

It felt better! I rode that horse again today with a regular half pad and it really corrected my position. I do think now that I’ve ridden without that Ogilvy that it’s too much pad. Without it, I feel like I can sit deeper and feel where my center of balance should be.

[amnich123]

[QUOTE=Thoroughbred1201;7607198]
This makes sense to me. I may be missing something here, and it’s probably a moot point at this point - but if you don’t own a horse, why are you buying a custom saddle? Generally, spending that much money, you are fitting a horse/rider combination. There are some really nice mid-range saddles that pretty much fit everything, that can be purchased used (or new) and will do the job just fine.

Got to a tack store, sit in a bunch, and bring a bunch home to ride in. I’m with earlier posters - you know whether it will work or not within the first couple of rides. If it’s this much work - your position isn’t solid enough to break in a new saddle, and you should ride in a well-broke in used saddle for awhile until your position is solid . . . or this isn’t the right saddle.

My 2 cents. Worth exactly the amount paid for it.[/QUOTE]

I got the saddle because everyone at the barn I ride at has their own saddle therefor I had nothing to ride in and their schooling saddles are a negative. All kids saddles or 18+ sized. Things people have dumped there that they don’t want.

There are several students at the barn I ride at who don’t own horses but lease different horses each summer/year (like I do) and have their own saddles. I can’t think of one of my peers at the barn who doesn’t have their own saddle.

So, since it’s been brought up… factors on why I bought a custom saddle:

1.) Going out of my comfort-zone to ask my trainers to borrow their personal saddle
2.) Trying to find a schooling saddle suitable to my body type. Most of them are child sized or very large.
3.) Riding on what felt like a “rock”
4.) Not being able to find and keep my position
5.) Discomfort: being rubbed raw from no stirrups or general riding
6.) Not being able to use the trainers saddle because someone else was using it, or not being able to use a schooling saddle because lower level kids are using them in lessons
7.) Everyone who’s at the barn I’m riding at that is dedicated has their own saddle
8.) The used Antares I bought from CWD off of Ebay had too short of a flap and didn’t fit a lot of horses, it would either be perched one way or another or pommel sat on horses withers.
9.) Tree of Antares broke during un-insured shipping back to CWD (my fault because I didn’t ship the saddle with insurance–never thought of it and it was a lot of $$) & CWD gave me $500 discount off of a custom

[amnich123]

Sadly I was unable to get any picture of the saddle today without the Ogilvy. Now that I’ve thought about it, naturally I ride with my stirrups long, since I tend to pinch with my knee and have ankle pain.

Again, now that I’ve shortened my leathers, the saddle seems to be fitting better in the seat.

In my next lesson with which ever trainer I’m in with, I’ll ask her honest opinion of the saddle fitting my body and how I ride in it and if she thinks its appropriate. Ideally, I’d be looking to train with the owner of the barn who is the top trainer and get her opinion since she is extremely honest and knowledgable.

[amnich123]

[QUOTE=french fry;7607123]
OP, it sounds like you do not have this issue in the other saddle(s) that you ride in. Is that correct? Sometimes a certain style saddle + imperfect fit on horse(s) + rider (bad) habits can just result in that perfect storm of “it should be fine but it feels awful.” I have totally been there. It is such a frustrating mistake because it should work and it doesn’t.

I would think really, really hard about whether you are willing to “make it work” with a 5,000 dollar saddle. A 1,200 dollar saddle, maybe? But a brand new custom French saddle? That would be a hard pill for me to swallow.

Personally? If I was in your situation I would be exploring returning the saddle. This may not be the right time for you to purchase a French custom saddle, unfortunately. Could you continue riding in the saddle(s) you were riding in before or barring that look for an exact copy of a saddle you know you like?[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. $4000 on a saddle and of COURSE I want it to be perfect!! I just wish I had a saddle fitter in my area who could give me a second opinion on how it fits me and what can be done.

Would it be odd for me to call the Antares rep from my area to have her take a look? Or do you think it could be biased… and try to get me to ditch the saddle and invest my $ on an Antares.

I trust the CWD rep’s opinion, since she believes I was fitted correctly, but I just don’t know since there are so many opinions.

I’m being pulled different ways as to how the saddle fits me.
Rep tells me she fit me correctly and that the saddle still needs to break in. Trainer from barn I visited who’s very familiar with CWD tells me I’m swimming in the saddle and that it’s wrong. Second trainer from my old barn tells me that as soon as she saw me ride in the saddle that it was too big all over and would probably fit me if I gained weight. One of 4 trainers from the barn I ride at now tells me the seat is a little big but flap looks good for my leg.

[Ponyplusaninch]

[QUOTE=amnich123;7607561]
I agree with you. $4000 on a saddle and of COURSE I want it to be perfect!! I just wish I had a saddle fitter in my area who could give me a second opinion on how it fits me and what can be done.

Would it be odd for me to call the Antares rep from my area to have her take a look? Or do you think it could be biased… and try to get me to ditch the saddle and invest my $ on an Antares.

I trust the CWD rep’s opinion, since she believes I was fitted correctly, but I just don’t know since there are so many opinions.

I’m being pulled different ways as to how the saddle fits me.
Rep tells me she fit me correctly and that the saddle still needs to break in. Trainer from barn I visited who’s very familiar with CWD tells me I’m swimming in the saddle and that it’s wrong. Second trainer from my old barn tells me that as soon as she saw me ride in the saddle that it was too big all over and would probably fit me if I gained weight. One of 4 trainers from the barn I ride at now tells me the seat is a little big but flap looks good for my leg.[/QUOTE]

The thing about a saddle rep is that he/she is NOT necessarily a qualified saddle fitter… sometimes they are; many times the reps just take a few courses and are sent on their merry way to sell saddles.

So that being said, without knowing who the antares rep is in your area, hard to say on whether you’d benefit from an opinion. If I had to guess, I’d say the Antares rep would probably tell you the saddle isn’t a great fit and to try this Antares–let’s do a trade-in!

Here’s my opinion about “breaking in a saddle”–it should take no more than three weeks regular riding to tell whether or not a saddle is going to work for you. And since you don’t have a horse right now, it needs to fit as perfectly to you as possible. I think the seat size looks good and that there are other adjustments to be made.

If I were you, I would completely ditch all the half back pads in your barn and go get a Mattes pad or something similar where you can control the shimming (which will help the fit) of the saddle. That is your best bet for accommodating your many mounts while keeping the saddle as close to the horse’s back as possible–which is what you want. The more fluff that’s between you and the horse’s back, the less you can feel.

[DoubleTwistedWire]

[QUOTE=amnich123;7607529]
I got the saddle because everyone at the barn I ride at has their own saddle therefor I had nothing to ride in and their schooling saddles are a negative. All kids saddles or 18+ sized. Things people have dumped there that they don’t want.

There are several students at the barn I ride at who don’t own horses but lease different horses each summer/year (like I do) and have their own saddles. I can’t think of one of my peers at the barn who doesn’t have their own saddle.

So, since it’s been brought up… factors on why I bought a custom saddle:

1.) Going out of my comfort-zone to ask my trainers to borrow their personal saddle
2.) Trying to find a schooling saddle suitable to my body type. Most of them are child sized or very large.
3.) Riding on what felt like a “rock”
4.) Not being able to find and keep my position
5.) Discomfort: being rubbed raw from no stirrups or general riding
6.) Not being able to use the trainers saddle because someone else was using it, or not being able to use a schooling saddle because lower level kids are using them in lessons
7.) Everyone who’s at the barn I’m riding at that is dedicated has their own saddle
8.) The used Antares I bought from CWD off of Ebay had too short of a flap and didn’t fit a lot of horses, it would either be perched one way or another or pommel sat on horses withers.
9.) Tree of Antares broke during un-insured shipping back to CWD (my fault because I didn’t ship the saddle with insurance–never thought of it and it was a lot of $$) & CWD gave me $500 discount off of a custom[/QUOTE]

Its not so much problematic that you bought a saddle to ride in. It’s that you bought a very expensive “custom” saddle, which is usually fitted to horse and rider; since you don’t have a horse, it should be something in a general size that fits a decent variety of horses, and fits you well. By your own admission, you’re unsure of whether or not it fits you, and it obviously doesn’t fit the horses, especially with a bunch of excess padding wedged under it.

For a fraction of what you spent on that CWD, you could have gotten a less “trendy” but completely serviceable and quality saddle that would have fit a decent variety of horses and you, who appear to be of average build for a rider. In under five minutes, I found these for probably a quarter of what you paid:
Pessoa A/O
Crosby Exselle (even flocked!)
Dominus
Hermes Steinkraus (which in a M tree is probably on the narrow side for most WBs, but at $1800 is a steal for someone!)
Prestige

And if you’re at one barn now, with a good and knowledgeable head trainer, why are you not getting THEIR input on saddle fit and position? Or buying the brand the barn uses, from THEIR fitter?

[akhunterrider]

I don’t have my own horse and I have my own high end French saddle. I didn’t buy brand new though. I bought used. So I do get it. I wouldn’t have paid $4000 + for a saddle for multiple horses. I have one main horse I ride of my trainer’s and another I work with. The saddle isn’t perfect on either but works fine on both. Did you look at used CWD saddles first? I know buying a demo wasn’t an option but most reps have used saddles, too.