Daily wormer in compost pile

[Draftygirl]

I recently bought my own place to have my two mares in the back yard and after the initial horror of all the poop that happened over the winter, I’ve got the barnyard cleaned up mostly. I put a lot of it on the farmer’s cornfield next door (with his permission) and then started a nice manure pile in one corner of the property after the snow all melted. Someday I hope to have real compost bins but that’s not happening yet.

Anyway the thought struck me just today that the Strongid daily they’ve been getting for a couple weeks now since it’s warmed up may not be the best thing for the compost. I did some searching on the internet and the consensus was very mixed. It seems that the horse people mostly say it’s no problem but some non-horsey people who acquired poop or compost from medicated horses say it killed their wigglers. There was also some argument that as long as it’s aged well enough then there’s no problem.

So I’m just wondering what you all think about this. I certainly don’t want to kill any of my earthworms nor do I want to give away to friends or neighbors what could be toxic material.

[kalidascope]

I apologise in advance for the obnixiousness, but I just have a burning desire to say here that worms and “worms” (aka internal parasites) are not the same thing. The latter aren’t worms, they are nematodes (roundworms) and cestodes (tapeworms). The former (earthworms) are annelids. They are however both helminths - this is where the term anthelmintic comes from as most helminths are internal parasites.

Okay, the most ‘official’ information I have found on this is here (my abridged summary below):

Abamectin and ivermectin are … active against a variety of animal parasites and insects. Numerous environmental fate and effects studies have been carried out in the development of these two compounds as antiparasitic agents and for abamectin as a crop protection chemical. They were found to be immobile in soil, rapidly photodegraded in water in the summer and as thin films on surfaces, and aerobically degraded in soil to less bioactive compounds.

… Abamectin and ivermectin possess no significant antibacterial and antifungal activity. They display little toxicity to earthworms or avians, and no phytotoxicity. Residues of the avermectins in feces of livestock affect some dung-associated insects, especially their larval forms. …Based on usage patterns, the availability of residue-free dung and insect mobility, overall effects on dung-associated insects will be limited.

As abamectin and ivermectin undergo rapid degradation in light and soil, and bind tightly to soil and sediment, they will not accumulate and will not undergo translocation in the environment, minimizing any environmental impact on non-target organisms resulting from their use.

So, your earthworms should be fine :).

[SuckerForHorses]

And I’ll be obnoxious and mention that … you should ditch the daily dewormer anyhow. It’s contributing to drug resistant parasites.

Try running some fecals on your equine friends and go from there.

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=SuckerForHorses;8096273]
And I’ll be obnoxious and mention that … you should ditch the daily dewormer anyhow. It’s contributing to drug resistant parasites.

Try running some fecals on your equine friends and go from there.[/QUOTE]
I was going to be obnoxious as well, thanks for saving me the trouble!

[merrygoround]

Studies indicate that fenbendazole (daily dewormer) is not hazardous to earthworms.

I still wouldn’t use it on my horse, for all the above reasons.

[tucktaway]

Daily dewormer = pyrantel tartrate

[merrygoround]

[QUOTE=tucktaway;8096717]
Daily dewormer = pyrantel tartrate[/QUOTE]

Oops! You’re correct.

[Draftygirl]

Thanks for all of your answers. I do use fecal egg counts. I don’t use daily the whole year. I stop it in November and start again in the spring. I’ve always done and it works well for us so not going to ditch it.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Draftygirl;8097520]
Thanks for all of your answers. I do use fecal egg counts. I don’t use daily the whole year. I stop it in November and start again in the spring. I’ve always done and it works well for us so not going to ditch it.[/QUOTE]

You may find that now that you have your own farm, it really isn’t necessary to work super hard to maintain a low/zero egg count without a daily dewormer.

I deworm 2x a year, fall and spring, and still have negative FECs.

Not only does daily dewormer contribute to resistance, but it’s probably a waste of money in most cases where your horses have enough room and clean grazing not to constantly reingest worm eggs,

[trubandloki]

I have to agree with S1969.

I suggest you try a season with out the daily dewormer. You might be pleasantly surprised at the results you get and enjoy the savings from not having to buy the dewormer.

[Draftygirl]

[QUOTE=S1969;8097713]
Not only does daily dewormer contribute to resistance, but it’s probably a waste of money in most cases where your horses have enough room and clean grazing not to constantly reingest worm eggs,[/QUOTE]

Yes, precisely. I still have only the temporary smallish paddock that I put up in January when the ground was too frozen to do anything else. Once I have a bigger grazing area (in the works!) I’ll finish the pail and go from there.

I may have given the wrong impression that I use the daily constantly. There have been some years where I didn’t use it at all when I was boarding at a small facility with lots of individual turnout. But I would never demonize daily wormer; there is definitely a place for it and I’ll continue to use it at times that seem appropriate.

[trubandloki]

[QUOTE=Draftygirl;8097886]
Yes, precisely. I still have only the temporary smallish paddock that I put up in January when the ground was too frozen to do anything else. Once I have a bigger grazing area (in the works!) I’ll finish the pail and go from there.

I may have given the wrong impression that I use the daily constantly. There have been some years where I didn’t use it at all when I was boarding at a small facility with lots of individual turnout. But I would never demonize daily wormer; there is definitely a place for it and I’ll continue to use it at times that seem appropriate.[/QUOTE]
I am confused by this.
It reads like you are saying that if a horse lives in a small area with any other horse that if you do not use a daily dewormer you are putting them at risk.
Is that what you intend to say?

[Draftygirl]

[QUOTE=trubandloki;8097889]
I am confused by this.
It reads like you are saying that if a horse lives in a small area with any other horse that if you do not use a daily dewormer you are putting them at risk.
Is that what you intend to say?[/QUOTE]
I’m done with this thread.
The next time I have a question about something I’m going to make it a detailed essay if that’s what it takes to keep the trolls at bay.

[Laurierace]

I don’t understand why people expressing opinions that differ from your are trolls, especially when they are pointing out things that you may or may not be aware of that could potentially alter the answer to your question. In this case, not using daily wormer would assure there was no worry about earthworms in your manure pile for example. You do not get to start a conversation then dictate the direction it takes.

[trubandloki]

I am not sure why I am called a troll for asking for clarification.

OK, I will give the example I was going to give you if you said yes to my question, that you think a daily dewormer is necessary if groups of horses are kept in small paddocks areas together.

I own three horses, all three are easy keepers so they spend more time in dry lot than they do in pasture (aka a group of horses in a small area together).
Two of my horses are zero shedders, their FECs always come back as 0. They are dewormed 2x per year, spring and fall.
My third horse has a nickname of the Worm Ball.
Yes, she is turned out with the other two in the same area at the same time.
She has been with them for a few years now (I had the other two before her).
None of them have been on daily dewormer.
My two zero shedders have only been dewormed the same 2x per year after their 2x per year FEC. Still zero.
Worm Ball gets dewormed far more often (per a schedule my vet has determined), always after a FEC.

My situation seems like the perfect storm for what I think you are saying requires daily dewormer to keep the other two safe from the one who is a walking worm factory.
No daily dewormer here, just two horses whose bodies deal well with whatever worm load the world presents and one whose body is not so gifted at it.
Though I will say that the Worm Ball has had two low counts in a row now.

Side note, the FEC showed that whatever worm load the Worm Ball was resistant to a Power Pac.

ETA - another side note, I do my best to keep my paddocks clean so manure is removed daily.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Draftygirl;8097886]
Yes, precisely. I still have only the temporary smallish paddock that I put up in January when the ground was too frozen to do anything else. Once I have a bigger grazing area (in the works!) I’ll finish the pail and go from there.

I may have given the wrong impression that I use the daily constantly. There have been some years where I didn’t use it at all when I was boarding at a small facility with lots of individual turnout. But I would never demonize daily wormer; there is definitely a place for it and I’ll continue to use it at times that seem appropriate.[/QUOTE]

In general I think most vets are moving toward targeted deworming, so each horse and each farm/turnout situation should be considered individually. I’ve never used daily dewormer, but if you can maintain your horse’s FECs without it, it’s just one less thing to buy and deal with every day.

But, with regard to the compost/manure pile, it’s good to know it probably won’t affect anything. I don’t separate out my deworming poop, and generally don’t use my composted manure for at least a year, so I think it works out ok.

[Ghazzu]

I believe that pyrantel tartrate breaks down fairly quickly upon exposure to sunlight.

[Draftygirl]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;8098386]
I don’t understand why people expressing opinions that differ from your are trolls, especially when they are pointing out things that you may or may not be aware of that could potentially alter the answer to your question. In this case, not using daily wormer would assure there was no worry about earthworms in your manure pile for example. You do not get to start a conversation then dictate the direction it takes.[/QUOTE]

Wrong. You don’t get to hijack my post, and neither does the other troll.

Thank you to the others of you for your thoughtful comments. I hope you understand I wasn’t painting you all with the same brush.

[Laurierace]

Bless your heart. I actually get to discuss whatever I want on your post.

[SuckerForHorses]

Don’t come back asking for deworming advice when your horses all have a high FEC later and are resistant to the drugs you try to use to address it :lol: