Dani Waldman admits to never turning out horses

[Equkelly]

@Caligirl83

All of us who ride & compete horses are all privileged to ride horses, and should care for them to the best of our abilities and finances

See this is what I don’t agree with. My fianances shouldn’t have anything to do with the minimum standard of care. Would it be fair to feed my horse half the hay she needs because of my financial situation? No. But for some reason, not doing turnout because of someone’s “financial situation” is acceptable.

@Caligirl83

I am not going to call animal control about Dani Waldmam or a local struggling urban riding academy catering to inner city kids because no turnout = abuse (two opposite sides of a spectrum)

None of us are saying AC should be called. AC in this country won’t step in unless your horse is starving and even then maybe not… why are you acting like that’s the gold standard? So what? The horse isn’t starving? Congrats to her?

The practice is wrong. People shouldn’t do it and they especially shouldn’t be normalizing their abuse on Instagram to all their followers. That’s my opinion.

[RileysMom]

Maybe I’m naive, but why no middle ground? My horse can be a nut in turnout and sometimes all he gets is an hour if he’s too worked up, other days if he’s quiet, he can be out as long as he likes. Either way, he gets the reasonable playful bucks out. Staff watches and if any of the horses look too out of control, they are immediately managed.

[Horse_Rider]

See this is what I don’t agree with. My fianances shouldn’t have anything to do with the minimum standard of care. Would it be fair to feed my horse half the hay she needs because of my financial situation? No. But for some reason, not doing turnout because of someone’s “financial situation” is acceptable.

This is my problem too. Horses don’t get to make many choices in their lives, which means the onus is on us to do the very best to meet their physical and emotional needs. I see folks talking about moving to spots with no grass and zero turnout and asking how to make it work and to me that’s putting your wants over true horsemanship. If I can’t provide a minimum set of necessities in a location, then I guess I don’t ride or own a horse in that location. I consider turnout - some version of it - to be a necessity for an animal that is designed to walk and graze all day. No, I don’t consider activities that require a human handler (treadmills, hand grazing, swimming, hot walkers, lunging, whatever) to be a fair trade off compared to giving a horse a moment to act like an uninhibited animal who can make it’s own choices. Sorry that sometimes those choices get them hurt, but guess what? They hurt themselves in stalls and under human care too. My horse hurt his leg in a field and then while he was on stall rest, he hurt the opposite leg even worse. Welcome to horses.

Consider dogs. I had apartment neighbors who worked ten-hour days and partied on the weekends. They bought a husky puppy. It howled all day and half the night. I don’t care how well fed or how well loved that dog was, they were bad dog owners because they bought a dog whose mental and physical comfort they could not provide for. That dog was bred to run for hours a day and needed near constant stimulation. They were taking it out for a 30-minute walk twice a day and then trapping it in a crate while they were at work. If they’d bought a Shi Tzu? I’d have had no complaints about their suitability as dog owners, even if it did spend a portion of it’s day making noises. Two people with full workloads and apparently zero desire to run or exercise a dog can handle meeting a Shih Tzu’s exercise needs. Those same two people were going to create a neurotic, unhappy, destructive husky and it pissed me off beyond words to hear that puppy wail all day. If you can’t provide for an animal’s basic behavioral needs, why do you think you have a right to that animal?

Do not get me started on people who buy obligate carnivores as pets and then decide their pet needs to go vegan. You want a vegan pet, you buy a rabbit, not a cat. They’re both mischievous and can be litter box trained. Only one of them is going to face terrible risks when fed a vegan diet.

[Nova2000]

@Horse_Rider

Consider dogs. I had apartment neighbors who worked ten-hour days and partied on the weekends. They bought a husky puppy. It howled all day and half the night. I don’t care how well fed or how well loved that dog was, they were bad dog owners because they bought a dog whose mental and physical comfort they could not provide for.

This is exactly why I don’t have a dog. My kids think we are the meanest parents ever. But we don’t lead the lifestyle that allows a dog to have the freedom it deserves. I refuse to have an only to leave it sitting in a crate all day.

[RND]

@Equkelly

Doesn’t make any difference IMO. Normalizing abusive/ unethical practices is the whole issue.

But she didn’t “normalize” the practice of not turning out. She simply stated the fact that she doesn’t turn her horses out. She stated a fact, and that’s it. She didn’t even SUGGEST to the person who asked the question that he should consider not turning his horses out. She simply stated the fact that she could not answer the question of whether or not to wrap his horse after turnout because she doesn’t turn her horses out. If a whole internet full of idiots read that and thinks that she told someone not to turn his horses out, then the problem lies way more with the idiots on the internet than it does with her.

I’m not advocating for refraining from turning horses out; I’m advocating for people on the internet learning how to read for comprehension.

[Clover5]

This 200%.

I think if the sport can only survive by denying horses their basic physical and emotional needs (and I would classify, barring injury or short-term extenuating circumstance, the freedom of movement and choice to express natural behaviours for some period of time each day a need), the sport needs an overhaul, not a continued acceptance of current practices as ‘the only way’. Even 30 mins of freedom in an arena is better than an entire lifetime of being under saddle, in a 12x12 box, or on the end of a lead rope IMO.

[RND]

@Clover5

Even 30 mins of freedom in an arena is better than an entire lifetime of being under saddle, in a 12x12 box, or on the end of a lead rope IMO.

How do you know this? I see lots of opinions here but I haven’t seen one of them backed up with any evidence. How do all of you know so definitively that a horse that is turned out in an arena or bigger, for 30 minutes or more per day, is better off mentally and physically than a horse that is every day being worked under saddle, hand walked/grazed multiple times per day, put on an automatic walker/treadmill, swam, whatever else all these fancy barns have - what evidence do you all have that horses can’t be mentally and physically healthy with this type of daily routine? Can anyone provide citations to studies that show horses absolutely need x number of hours of turnout per day to be mentally and physically fit and that it doesn’t matter (or it does matter) if they are turned out alone or in a group?

To clarify once again, I am not advocating for not turning horses out, I am simply advocating for people to back up their opinions with facts, not feelings.

[endlessclimb]

Sheesh, they can’t even provide evidence that the horses need WHISKERS, let alone this.

Good luck haha

[crackerjack]

Is this the kind of thing you are looking for?

Here’s a study on turnout:
German Study

Here’s the conclusion:

In conclusion, the study shows that allowing or not allowing free exercise (ie, turnout) and the particular time of turnout affects the behavior of horses in the stable as well as those in training and during turnout. The behavior of the horses in the stable was more relaxed when turnout was allowed in addition to training. The behavior during training was also more relaxed and the willingness to perform was not negatively affected by turnout. Furthermore, the study indicates that training does not fulfill the exercise requirements of the horses. Regarding the risk of injury caused by free exercise, it is advised to allow TAT because locomotion activity is decreased with this order of events as compared with TBT. By contrast, the horses’ willingness to perform was evaluated as being better when turnout was allowed before training (TBT). Because of the manifold individual experiences encountered by a horse until it becomes a competition horse, riders and trainers need to decide which way of management is the best for each individual animal. Generally, it has to be considered that for conventionally stalled horses, turnout in groups is the only possibility for them to perform social interactions, which is an essential element of natural behavior and so is of great importance for animal welfare.

[sportyspicepony]

lmao is it a big problem for me? sounds like it’s actually a big problem for you. dogs are not comparable to horses

[Equkelly]

@RND

But she didn’t “normalize” the practice of not turning out. She simply stated the fact that she doesn’t turn her horses out

That’s what normalizing it is.

@RND

I’m advocating for people on the internet learning how to read for comprehension.

I’d work on your own critical thinking skills first.

[RND]

In order to normalize not turning horses out, Dani would have had to claim that most people don’t turn their horses out (in other words, make it seem normal in the horse world to not turn horses out). Simply stating a fact is not normalizing that fact. I could state that my dog uses a litter box instead of going outside. That doesn’t mean I am normalizing dogs using litter boxes rather than going outside (in other words, by stating that fact, I am not implying that most people do this and therefore it is a normal practice among dog owners). That statement just means that I do that. I hope you are able to understand this now.

[LSBC]

I agree, I don’t think she’s normalizing not turning out horses, but I do think she didn’t have a good enough reason why she doesn’t. “Not trusting the horses” could really apply to anything. That idea of not trusting the horse not to hurt themselves could be wildly taken out of context. The point is, if someone reads her statement (which I think she took down) and thinks “well, I actually don’t trust my horse not to hurt itself, either” that is a serious problem.

I am not saying this is by any means better, but she could have said “So and so does [these specific behaviors] in the paddock and therefore I am not comfortable turning so and so out.” It’s not better than what she said originally, but adding specifics makes it apply to less people. Thus, less people will think they shouldn’t turn their horses out. At least, that’s where my mind goes…

[Nova2000]

I think it’s important not to confuse common with normal. Is it common for horse not to get turned out? Sadly, yes. Is it normal for a horse to not get to be outside? No.

For those that do podcasts, Horse Training in Harmony has an interesting discussion on this topic in the first half of episode 14. It’s worth a listen.

[wanderinglemon]

@RND

In order to normalize not turning horses out, Dani would have had to claim that most people don’t turn their horses out (in other words, make it seem normal in the horse world to not turn horses out). Simply stating a fact is not normalizing that fact.

By your definition, something would have to already be normal for it to be able to be “normalized”. In actuality, if you state that your dog uses a litter box, you ARE normalizing dogs using litter boxes, albeit by very little.

[RND]

No. If I state that my dog uses a litter box, I am only saying that MY DOG uses a litter box. I am not normalizing the practice across any other dog owners. I probably KNOW that it isn’t normal to teach a dog to use a litter box, otherwise why would I feel the need to state that as a fact. No one states that their dogs go to the bathroom outside, because that is so normal that it doesn’t need to be said. Jesus, I can’t believe I’m still explaining this but simply stating a fact =/= normalizing that fact.

[Equkelly]

It’s just semantics either way. The point is that by admitting she practices something that’s unhealthy and cruel she’s essentially saying that she thinks it’s acceptable… because obviously if she had a problem with it, she wouldn’t do it.

Which, ok hopefully nobody is stupid enough to listen to her but the issue is that the more people that see this as an acceptable practice, the longer it’s going to take to change. Bad things only change when enough people start agreeing that it is in fact bad. If all horse people just got together and all agreed that maybe this isn’t fair to do to our horses, this wouldn’t be as common as it is.

[TBKite]

Collins Dictionary

3. VERB

To normalize something is to treat it as normal or acceptable when it is not.

We must resist all attempts to normalize racism. [VERB noun]

I would argue that telling someone that you do things a certain way will have the effect of normalizing that behaviour in their mind. Even if they continue to disagree with you, they will have more of an impression that your way is “a thing”.

[RND]

I guess if you are a moron and you also expect everyone else to be complete morons and not be capable of thinking for themselves, then any time someone makes a statement you would assume that they are saying that everyone should do those things too. Anyone with even a little bit of intelligence is able to read a statement by someone and understand that person to be saying that he or she believes that statement to be true (in other words NORMAL) for him or herself, and is not expecting anyone else to automatically believe the same or feel it is normal for them. Welcome to the total dumbing down of the USA I guess.

[BlueMoonJumper]

@RND I agree with you that’s the way “it should be” however, DW markets herself as an influencer - intentionally expanding her reach to as many as possible via her fashion and expertise as a top rider/horse pro.