I’m not on instagram so I didn’t realize that she is on there telling everyone to put feathers in their hair just like she does and telling them all to not turn their horses out and do everything exactly the way she does. If she is indeed telling everyone on instagram that they should all be doing things exactly the way she does, then yes, that is wrong. However, if she is simply posting about what she does and leaving it at that, if people are stupid enough to believe that she is telling them what to do, they get what they deserve. Those same people probably take life advice from celebrities on social media too - there’s no hope for them. You can’t fix stupid.
3 Likes
I get what you are saying, but that’s not what normalize means.
Hearing someone casually say that they do things a certain way makes that way seem like a more commonly done, legitimate thing. To use your example, if you told me your dog uses a litter box, I’m not going to run out and get my dog one tomorrow. But the more people I hear say that, the less eccentric it seems.
Now, if I already know this is something people do, and I feel strongly that it is a horrible affront to the dignity of a dog, my opinion may not be swayed very easily. But if I don’t already have a strong opinion, I may not think about it much, but now have an impression of it being more “normal” than I did before. Hence, normalized.
ETA: She doesn’t have to be TRYING to get people to do anything in order to have an effect on their behaviour. She most likely doesn’t care one way or the other if other people turn their own horses out.
12 Likes
If you are that easily led I get why you think that someone making a statement means that everyone is doing it and you should too. People who are intelligent enough to think for themselves do not think the way you describe.
1 Like
I don’t think DW meant to influence people. I think she thought that she was just saying what her practice was. Like someone said above unfortunately there are some people who will be influenced by what she said. She has said since that she will put out a day in the life kind of thing to show what the horses actually do so that may help a little. Although, I don’t know if that’ll fuel the fire or put it out. No turnout due to fear of injury still remains the reason. There’s a Canadian family on YouTube who are regularly influenced by what they see and hear online. They’re constantly questioning the vet. So unfortunately, there will be some people who pick up on these ideas without being blatantly told this is what you need to do. And it will be more likely to be beginners who will do more harm than good. It just means that regardless of who you are, you really need to be careful with how you present things on social media.
3 Likes
I feel you are being deliberately obtuse.
My horses live out 24/7. I’m just explaining that normalize doesn’t mean what you seemed to think it meant.
17 Likes
One person with an alter not tied to any sort of reputation isn’t going to normalize anything.
Former Olympian with an instagram base of 50,000 is in a significantly better position to normalize whatever they want, consciously or unconsciously. It is literally why they are called “influencers”.
The recommendation is for that ONE influencer to perhaps think a little more carefully about what she doles out as tips, tricks, SOP & advice.
This seems far more productive than trying to convince the 50,000 followers to not be so easily influenced (there’s that word again) by their idols (which the whole swath of human history has shown rarely, if ever, works).
27 Likes
Yes - read some old-time show jumping training/riding books and it’s mentioned albeit not necessarily heartily endorsed. “The De Nemethy Method” mentions it but advises caution if I remember correctly and says it should only be done by someone skilled. Both of Bill Steinkraus’s books (which are otherwise very good in my opinion) reference it - though “Reflections on Riding and Jumping” which was published in the early '90s notes that the practice was illegal under FEI rules (been a while since I’ve read “Reflections on Riding and Jumping” in full - may have just noted the practice had fallen out of favor) and “Riding and Jumping” (at least the original edition from…I think either '63 or '61 as it has Ksar D’Esprit on the cover not Snowbound - the book was published again in the late '60s w/Snowbound on the cover) references it also (and in the early '60s it was still competition legal) but one of the two described the practice as something of a “razor in the monkey’s paws” (unless that was De Nemethy’s book describing something else entirely).
I’m also not condoning it and frankly even the old books (at least the ones I’ve read) didn’t really outright condone it.
EDIT: Agree w/whoever above explained that poling is basically gaslighting the horse - I’d drop a like on your post but can’t find it now.
The phrase “controlled exercise” is what made me cringe the most. I’m sure her horses eye light up with pure joy when they are headed out to the hot walker for some forced exercise. 
My horse lives out and I often see him just take off, throw a buck, and a fart for no reason cause he’s enjoying himslef and feeling frisky. It’s sad to think her horses can’t do anything spontaneous like that and that every move has to be approved by a human.
25 Likes
Right… I don’t want to start something but I always find it a little sad when horses only ever live alone. Sharing a fence line is not the same thing as being in a group in a paddock. Everybody needs a friend. 
Does every horse get along with one another? No. There are suitables and unsuitables in every situation. Some horses need a goat friend. Some are fine in mixed herds. Some need to come in at night for some alone time. Some need to be out 24/7. As with all things horses, it depends on the horse in front of you…
I have lost a horse to a kick from another horse on turnout. And even with that loss, which hurt very much, I still think that fundamentally the horse is healthiest (and therefore, the most happy and willing to do his work) when he gets social interaction and unlimited movement from turnout. All of my show horses are in group turnout. They may trot down the center line with a fresh bite on their haunch, but they are healthy, fit, and happy with all of their needs truly met - which makes riding them that much more enjoyable.
I can say, I have seen some very ugly injuries from solo turnout and horses bickering over a fence line. I’d rather have horses share a paddock than share a fence line. YMMV.
One of my boys was briefly on some solo turnout after a heel grab at a hunt. It was fall and typical of NE, there was mud everywhere. I wanted to keep it clean and dry and it was a big PITA to wrap. I put him in the dry lot adjacent to the main pasture while the cut scabbed over. He was not the same horse even though his BFF hung with him along the fence line. I have never seen horses so clearly demonstrate joy as the day I opened up the gate between the two paddocks.
14 Likes
This.
I’ll reiterate (because frankly this conversation is exhausting) turn your horse out! I have lived and worked in LA. If that means a couple of hours in a sand paddock, so be it. If that means 24 hours in grass, great.
Mind blowing that this is still a debate.
19 Likes
Agree.
It makes a big difference for my horse’s mental and physical health. He’s much more prone to lay flat out and nap in the paddock with his buddy inside the fence with him and also much more active in the paddock with a pal. Both are good.
5 Likes
How does ANYONE have 600 horses??? Why do I doubt the truth of this statement?
Dani is the one who said it. I’ve said upthread (answering your same question) that her husband is a breeder in Europe. Mares & foals really add up 
Google is your friend.
“ Born and raised on Manhattan’s Upper East Side by parents who were world-ranked squash champions, Waldman now lives in Putten, the Netherlands, about an hour southeast of Amsterdam with her husband, Alan Waldman. They own Waldman Horses, on which they keep 600 equines, breeding about 100 each year, said Waldman in a video interview from her plant-filled home. “I found the only other American Jew in Holland doing horses to marry,” she quipped.”
So wait a minute, there are posters here advocating that people in cities should have no access to horses?
Mounted police? No more?
Carriage horses? Nope?
City lesson facilities? All gone?
Basically all of California & Europe? No horses?
Big show facilities? Gone?
Racetracks? Done?
Saddlebreds/Morgans/Arabians? No more?
I think those of you who are dying on that hill ought to be very careful what you wish for. We’re already struggling as an industry because of the animal rights’ attacks on equine use at all. Yes, it would be ideal if all of the fluffies in the world could be cared for in endless pastures right in the middle of the city, but that is not the reality we live in.
People who care for horses in circumstances other than endless green pastures are not abusing their horses. Good lord. There are many very happy, very well adjusted horses that have controlled exercise instead of loose exercise in acres of pasture. Horses are NOT humans. They don’t tend to think of their lives in terms of “freedom and not freedom”. If they did, we couldn’t domesticate them - they’d say “heck no” ALL the time. If they are being fed, properly exercised, groomed, vetted, and appropriately ridden they have it WAY better than feral horses (and secretly, I think they know it).
Maybe I’m salty today (and old…don’t forget old) but once upon a time people understood that there are many ways to keep horses. Many are appropriate to the way in which they are being used. And those that are dying on hills, look out - the raras WILL come for your horses. Pretty soon it won’t be enough to provide them with acres of pasture, bitless bridles, treeless saddles and rainbows.
I’ve seen a massive shift happen in my lifetime. I’m unconvinced it’s for the better. I still see the same amount of actual abuse as I did in the 80s and 90s, and now we’re going after well-fed vetted to the eye-teeth horse people because they don’t “turn out their horses” in giant pastures…Yikes.
18 Likes
I don’t think thats the literal argument people are making regarding pro turn out. I have worked in the “top” western pleasure barns…fields upon fields in Texas, empty. Not a single horse turned out. Maybe some lucky broodmares and foals. That is IT. That is a CHOICE those “trainers” are making. Horse care, nonexistent, IMO. It was really depressing. I can’t imagine those horses would rather have been lunged everyday instead of turned out, if they had the choice. Worse yet, those horses are in full work at 2,3 years old. Another conversation entirely.
I have worked at Flintridge in LA. Horses were turned out. I have visited many top show jumping barns/facilities in the greater LA area and every single one had some sort of turn out. Sand or grass, whatever, the horses got the buck and play for a bit each day.
Horses absolutely understand the concept of freedom. Why else would my horse rip away from her halter everyday when I go to turn her out (trust me, I’ve been working on it for 3 years). If that’s not recognition of freedom, I don’t know what is.
They also enjoy working and being fed. It’s more complex than domestication.
14 Likes
Would rather. That’s an interesting value judgement right there.
I dare say they’d rather not do any of it if truly left up to their druthers, which is why we have the process of gentling and training to begin with.
However, I think getting eaten by wolves, starving, and getting shot via helicopter is objectively worse, if I were a horse. Or getting “turned loose” to starve in an old mine-field.
So…degrees, right?
And I’m sorry your horse does that. Mine stick around, mostly because they know they get a cookie AFTER the halter comes off and not before. I doubt it’s so much a concept of freedom as it is a need to expend excess energy if they are ripping away. I can tell if my horses don’t get enough work if they trot away as opposed to sticking around and trying to mug me for more. They also come galloping in at a peppermint wrapper crinkle, which hardly seems like someone who “would rather” have freedom. Peppermints are good, but they aren’t good enough to counter oppression ROFL.
I’d caution us against the value judgements against our fellow horsemen. We may not agree with their strategies, but they are pointing the same finger at us. Those western horsemen look at anyone who jumps and tsk tsk about the damage done to tendons, ligaments etc. from jumping. In truth, the barns who I saw the most injuries in (and I’ve been at barns with almost every discipline from western pleasure to eventing) were hunters & dressage barns. The barn I saw the least number of lamenesses and injuries in was actually a saddlebred facility where the horses had almost zero turnout.
Again - I’m not saying it’s ideal - I’m just saying we should watch the judgement. It’ll bite us.
4 Likes
Don’t be sorry. I was just saying that I believe that is a sign they are aware of what “freedom” means. “I’m free, I get to run around NOW” kind of thing. They clearly know. It’s freedom in movement and expressing themselves. They will simply never be allowed that on a eurociser, a treadmill, under saddle or hand walked.
And yes, I’ve tried the carrot thing, blah blah. It was simply an example.
I will absolutely judge people who have the resources to turn their horse(s) out, yet CHOOSE not to. Not sorry.
5 Likes
Funny because I saw the opposite - the trainer I worked for in LA had a lot of injuries, horses with constantly swollen legs, ulcers, etc. and got 1-2 hours in a sand paddock each day. The barn I worked at in the PNW where horses got 4 hours of turnout in grass paddocks? Virtually no injuries. I worked at both barns for 2 years each.
Again, a hill I’d die on. If you want a horse that never, ever will get injured, you’re in the wrong sport/business. Buy a motorcycle.
16 Likes
I once groomed far an UL dressage rider. Her horses got turnout in small, deep sand paddocks or not at all. So many suspensory injuries.
1 Like
