Wow, the stallion ranks are thinning pretty quickly around here with breeding season just around the corner.
https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/daredevil-and-super-saver-relocating-to-turkey/
Are there any stallions left in Kentucky?
Kiddingā¦ sort ofā¦
@LaurieB were any of those making the trek to Turkey ones you were considering for next year?
I also am surprised at how many, it seems, have left this year over previous years and these last so close to the KY breeding seasonā¦ wonder if not many in their books and offered nice enticements for those mare owners who had already selected one of these twoā¦
Texarkana, thereās still probably one or two left :lol:
I was expecting a Thanksgiving prank.
[I]braces for incoming lecture from Snaff[/I]
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:lol:
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There are obviously plenty of others to choose from but I do feel badly for the mare owners who planned to send one to the any of the guys who are being exported.
I feel worse for the breeders who just bred to one of those stallions earlier this year. Super Saver bred 136 mares in 2019. Thatās a lot of people looking at pregnant mares and knowing theyāll be trying to sell offspring of a horse whoās long gone.
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I understand that these are business decisions, but if I bred one of my mares to a Win Star stallion- probably with their recommendation, and he left the country in that calendar year, I would be extremely disappointed in their business practices about now.
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I would agree, particularly, in this case, since Super Save is sire of Runhappy so he has produced nicely.
I couldnāt find anything on a few quick searches but just feels (and perhaps incorrectly) that Winstar does sell many of their younger stallions. I just donāt know if there is any truth in that.
Daredevilās first foals were of racing age this year (2019). Super Saver has been producing for a number of years so both IMO proven and unproven stallions. But I get that if you have a stallion who offspring arenāt bringing in the numbers, at some point, sell makes sense and if Turkey is the buyer, so be it. Iām okay as long as the sales contract coverās the stallions return back to the US upon retirement.
I also get that for many of these stallions, it gives strength to other countriesā breeding programs.
Not just Kentuckyā¦Uncaptured disappeared from Ocala Studās roster.
With how many millions and millions of dollars Super Saver made , I have to wonder what does a horse have to do to stay home? Is the business so brutal now that you have to squeeze every single dollar out of a horse? I guess I answered my own question.
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Just a thoughtā¦is there more competition for the available mares, especially those of some quality? Know the number of foals yearly is dramatically lower then it was even 20 years ago. Dont have those numbers handy but they should search easy enough.
Why would a stallion care if the beautiful pastures, immaculate barns, top notch care and the mares were in Ky, Japan, Turkey or any other country with an emerging racing industry? And if that country provides that care, why shouldnāt they have access to the best TB bloodlines out there? Their money is as good as anybody elseās.
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Without knowing what the actual deal was between WinStar and Turkey, is it āsqueezing every single dollarā vs the offer Turkey made was financially more appealing than keeping Super Saver in KY at WinStar? Who knows if WinStar had been having other conversations with other prospective buyers. I donāt think WinStar has any obligation to keep a stallion āat homeā if the horse is to be sold, just, IMO, an obligation to include the āFerdinandā clause in the contract to ensure the stallion can be repatriated back to the US when his breeding career is finished.
@findeight, the foal crop has dropped dramatically in the last 15 years. In 2005, there were 38,000 TB foals registered in North America. The 2019 number is projected to be 20,000. So yes, there are many fewer mares available to be bred. This hasnāt caused stud fees to drop unfortunately. Instead, horses just leave the country.
The sales have a bigger impact on who stays and who goes than racing results do. Currently buyers will only pay decent prices for offspring of first year sires or for sires with stud fees of 60-70k and up. The whole middle market has vanished. So every stallion who āonlyā produces solid runners is at risk of being replaced on a farmās roster by a shiny new first year horse.
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Could this phenomenon have anything to do with the proposition of limiting of the number of mares in a stallionās book?
I canāt see how, but then again Iām not involved in the industry. It just seems to be a bit of a mass exodus not so long after the proposal of limiting books.
Iām surprised that Super Saver was let go. Heās got Runhappy, and his get look good, but they havenāt run yet.
I just had a look at his conformation photo. Iād forgotten what a good looking horse he isā¦
I wonder if our current, worsening predisposition for only valuing offspring from top 5 sires and unproven sires will ultimately be the decline of the dominance of the American TB worldwide.
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It certainly isnāt helping. Especially since it bears much responsibility for the decline in the foal crop.
In the meantime, we are certainly doing our part to help countries with developing racing programs acquire top breeding stock. :sigh:
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Once again, the market has turned to breeding for breeding. Racing seems an afterthought. Breeders now are 95% breeding for that weanling/yearling market. As Laurien said, its all about that new shiny new stallion, who hasnt had a single foal hit the track. But the elephant in the room isā¦who are the buyers for all those yearlings? Breeders jump from first year stallion to first year stallion, trying to hit the one that market will pay for. Meanwhile, everyones mares get bred to unproven sires year after year after year. No easier way to ruin a mares produce record in a short amount of time. Its nothing to see a first year sire stand for $10,000ā¦and book full at that price. Two years from then, heās marketing at half that price (even if the published fee hasnt dropped) to try and keep a decent book of mares. Third year from then? Name your price. If he hasnt had a good first year at the track, off to Turkey he goes. And as happens often, those early crops will pop with a good graded horse. Some come back, like super solid Take Charge Indy (who never should have left in the first place. Seems thats now Winstarās modus operendiā¦get their money out of a horse quick, then sell him before heās a bust. So yeah, Im a bit jaded about the breeding game. Fortunately for me, I breed for myself, and all I have to please is myself.
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Breeding to race is quite liberating.
I can see why Daredevil left ā he covered 20 mares in 2019 down from well over a hundred a year the previous years. And his offspring are not showing up yet. But Super Saver?
And LaurieB is right, the real losers in this are the folks with weanlings by these stallions that are bound for the sales. And those with mares carrying their foals.
