Dealing with difficult parents

[Mander]

@candyappy

@Mander Why would the OP say anything to anyone else ( as you say " spread it around" )?
Does everyone know “who” belongs to “who” that they would really care?

Horse show circles aren’t usually very big - growing up I absolutely knew who belonged to which barn. If the student has shown with OP before and then went to the show and was a hot mess, it would make OP look bad to people who didn’t know the full story and that the student was there alone and without the trainer’s “blessing”.

I have definitely gone to shows to watch and see how different trainers’ students ride, how the coach coaches, etc. I pay attention to which coaches are encouraging, which ones yell, how they react when things go right and wrong, and seeing the same trainers year after year, I’ll be looking to see if their students improve or stagnate. If I saw a kid alone at a show being a general train wreck and saw that her trainer was doing nothing about it, it would raise some red flags for me because of the assumed association.

There are lots of complaints that h/j trainers are too “hand-holdy” - and in some ways I agree - but if I was a trainer and a horse show was my “marketing”, I’d be doing everything possible to make sure that my barn had a great time, stayed safe and did well.

@candyappy

If this student isn’t capable of riding her horse in a class without her trainer instructing her every minute, I wonder if she is ready to show.

Frankly, it seems that this girl’s parents don’t care if she’s ready to show or not and aren’t listening to OP when she tells them as much.

[candyappy]

@ilovetheadd27

I have one teenage rider who is a challenge, along with her parents,

I read it as a student & parent problem @Mander but it really makes no difference if OP has rules, it sounds like in the current show world they should be followed.

[TBROCKS]

Me too. A person at our barn does that, she just meets us there. Sometimes if there’s a lot of us going, and the trainer’s rig is full, she offers an available spot on her trailer. And might I just add schooling with a trainer at a show and having their support and encouragement on the rail elevates the whole showing experience to another level, for me at least. I’ve been to shows with no trainer, MUCH prefer having mine at ringside. Much.

[Mardi1]

@ilovetheadd27

I want student to show, but more important than a show is having a good experience and their money/my time be well spent. My policy and expectations are clear, I have been kind and have attempted to be flexible (within my scheduling limits), but they are quite unsatisfied/upset.

The one thing you haven’t mentioned is the safety issue of taking an unprepared rider - and horse - to a show. If she falls off and is injured, the parents would be more upset than they are now. And that would be directed squarely at you… And worse case scenario, they sue you for permitting their daughter to go to a busy show and risk injury, even though you knew she was unprepared. You know the parents well. Does suing you sound like something they would be capable of doing ?

Give the safety speech to the parents, stick to your guns, and do not take the student to the show. Usually when the word safety is used, people tend to pay attention.

[candyappy]

@Mardi1

And worse case scenario, they sue you for permitting their daughter to go to a busy show and risk injury, even though you knew she was unprepared.

How is that even possible? As a minor the parents are responsible for what their child does and the risk lands on them.

Also , even the best prepared/ skilled rider is at risk of injury anytime they mount a horse. If we knew when the accidents would happen–well we wouldn’t have accidents?

[Mardi1]

The parents could sue the trainer for anything. How about for negligence (those who see, but don’t take reasonable care) ? That could fit: the trainer has admitted that the rider/horse aren’t prepared, but agrees to take them to the show anyway, and accept money for doing so.
Getting a jury to agree with the parents isn’t a given, but the legal fees the trainer would have to pay her own attorney certainly are.

Yes even the best prepared/skilled riders are at risk. However their trainers believe that they’re prepared, and so they go to the show.
The OP has clearly said to us, and to the parents, that the rider is NOT prepared. Why risk going to the show ?

[mvp]

@ilovetheadd27

@CBoylen that’s a great idea of a compromise… unfortunately in my situation horse is a hotter jumper and loses his mind in the flat so that wouldn’t be fun for anyone but I love the idea of trying to find a compromise.

And if the jumper sucks at the show, so what?

I can think of two ways to go.

1. You restate that this is the policy, known to them and applicable to all clients, and that you are sorry their schedule didn’t work out for this one show; there will be others-- restated as often as they want to have the conversation.

2. Or restate the policy, let them know how it’s meant to the help them and then, if they want to ignore it, let them bask in the consequences of their decision. Don’t protect them from their thinking that your well-considered rule about preparation doesn’t apply to them; let them discover the basis for your policy the hard way.

[mvp]

@ilovetheadd27

Student has not had a lesson in over 3 weeks, and can only make 1 lesson before show. I offered several other alternate lesson slots (which would require flexing/moving on my part), but parents said absolutely not, for whatever reason. I am being “unfair to student” according to them and changed my schedule without advanced notice (haven’t changed/canceled a single lesson yet all summer and happen to be out of town with family next weekend on the one day they happen to be available…)

Got a text from mom saying they “won’t be scheduling lessons for now”, so I guess problem solved for the moment and I need to figure out what to do with them long term (don’t think it is going to be a fit and I am tired of the mental games). I’m not a lesson mill, this is secondary income/my side gig, and I am in it for the love of teaching not for the drama.

The mom’s text suggests that “the trash will be taking itself out” soon.

In this case, stick to your policy. Don’t teach the kid unless they come to you looking to take the requisite number of lessons before the show and don’t worry about it if they find another trainer.

[findeight]

All you have to differentiate yourself from every other trainer or JAW in your totally unregulated profession is YOUR reputation. That reputation is largely based on 2 things…

Observation of the attitude, appearance and performance of your students.

Your ethics, including your word.

If I know you openly promise certain things and have rules for students then see an ill prepared horse and rider that you transported to a show and assisted then despite them not following your policies?

Guess what? Im not picking you for lessons, sending you my horse or buying/ leasing anything from you or anything you are involved with as an agent on either side. If I am already in your barn, I expect to be allowed and transported to shows without meeting any requirements too.

I don’t trust you. You showed me I shouldn’t. You don’t do what you say you are going to. Dont self sabotage your business this way.

[S1969]

@candyappy

How is that even possible? As a minor the parents are responsible for what their child does and the risk lands on them.

Also , even the best prepared/ skilled rider is at risk of injury anytime they mount a horse. If we knew when the accidents would happen–well we wouldn’t have accidents?

In a lawsuit, the trainer would absolutely be named. It was under their program, their tutelage, their guidance, that they learned to ride and/or considered entering the show. The parents could very easily (and probably accurately) prove that their lack of knowledge of horses made them dependent on the trainer’s decisions and judgement.

Now, of course that doesn’t mean that they would win - especially if the trainer had any way to demonstrate that she advised the student not to show and that the student did not come with the barn to the show.

But - this is why a trainer would have a policy of lessons before a show; because they will be named in a lawsuit if the student is injured while showing under their program.

And FWIW, this is not just horses, and not just minors. I trained with a triathlon coach and he had safety rules as well - if he told someone they were not prepared for a race, they were expected to NOT race. If they did anyway - he would likely have kicked them out of the program. If they showed up in team race gear and raced…he would have been livid. I’m actually having anxiety imagining how that post-race conversation would go.

But it’s not just being sued - it’s his reputation, which is how he makes a living. You either choose to be in the program and follow the rules - or you are independent, in everything.

[clanter]

@Mardi1

but the legal fees the trainer would have to pay her own attorney certainly are.

I was in a personal injury suit (not horse related) as a defendant who was not directly involved in the injury, just drug into the mess as they sued any and everyone closely related the incident …cost me over $15,000 (nearly $30k in today’s dollars)… and I was not even closely involved (the claim against me was dismissed with prejudice )

[SBrentnall]

It’s pretty standard in the dressage world, too. There’s no way my trainer would let me enter a show if I hadn’t ridden for 3+ weeks.

[ilovetheadd27]

Just wanted to pop in with an update to this. Student is not showing this weekend, parents paid my July invoice, and I have sent the compulsory “this is no longer working out” messaging. Student has two days to remove her things from my tack room, and I will be changing the door code lock afterwards. Thanks everyone for your support, advice, and it was really a reminder and made me double down on the type of program and type of reputation I want to have. I have a really good thing going, with people I truly enjoy, and I want to continue that with my integrity in tact

[Warmblood1]

Good for you. Nip it in the bud. Glad it worked out for you.

[Atlas_Shrugged]

If you do it for one, then you will be forced to do it for the rest. Stick to your guns. If you don’t, and the kid gets hurt, you may find yourself in the middle of a negligence lawsuit.

[ravenclaw]

Thanks for the update! I was wondering if anything else had happened. If she does the same thing with another trainer, the same thing might happen.

[candyappy]

I am glad you updated as well because I was wondering if she ended up going on her own.

Will her horse be required to find other accommodations as well @ilovetheadd27 ?

[findeight]

Since kid has 2 days to remove stuff from tackroom and OP will change locks behind her, sounds like horse is going too.

[Mander]

IIRC I think OP just teaches lessons out of a barn with other trainers - she is not BO. Might be a private tack room for just her clients though.

[foggythistle]

I would get back whatever they have borrowed NOW. If they are borrowing something long term, then they should BUY THEIR OWN. Otherwise, it needs to be returned TO YOU, clean, after each use. These folks sound like the type that believe that you ‘gifted’ those borrowed items to them.