Rugbug, do you want me to go through my photo albums and digitize pics of all the quarter horses I have ever known that have had long careers? :lol: I just posted the two I happened to already have on shutterfly. These horses were in the pre-digital age so the albums are all down in my basement. It seems a little much. Look, if you insist no fat quarter horses should ever jump more than 2’6. Go ahead, win. Congratulations. I’m not sure what the prize is or why you feel the need to beat up on poor jumpinstarr’s cute old clearly QH for jumping what is, by all accounts, more than 2’6.
I think I disagree a bit…I too have known a TON of QHs who jumped 3’+ for years just fine. In some areas of the country, people show their horses both western and english. Where I grew up, you horse could chase cows one day and jump a 3’ hunter course the next and maybe play polo the following weekend.
Were they competitive horses in the hunters in A level shows…no…but still safe happy and sound ones.
I say the horse of ANY breed that has trouble jumping 2’6" and staying sound is more the exception to the rule. Yes…there are some…and there is some really crappy farrier work and other management issues out there. But there are a lot of stock horses that are fine to jump 3’ on…but if they are better at chasing cows, then I might use them more for that. I had one fairly recently that a friend and I had bought as a weanling. We wanted to do the working cow horse classes on him…started him with reining etc. but the bugger had ZERO cow sense. So we decided to sell him. Switched him to english (he was happier going more forward at the trot anyway) and taught him to jump. He was easily jumping 3’ within a month or two. I had even taken him xc schooling jumping BN and Novice jumps and had him entered in his first BN HT when he sold. He went to a family where he packed the grandmother around Fox Hunting and then showed with the grandaughter (low hunters (2’9-3’ and eq.) and did whatever else they wanted.
Second boy did the same thing. He’d chase cows one weekend and go novice level eventing the next.
But what is the norm and what other horses can and can’t do isn’t the question. The issue is what the OP horse is comfortable doing. But I agree with Fordtraktor that there are a lot of QH, stock breeds and just horses in general that do not find jumping 2’6" difficult and can stay sound doing it for years. I’m sure there are some that don’t though. I’ve also had/known TBs and WBs who could not stay sound either doing it…that’s where becoming a good horseman is important. To see the signs, and make the choices best for a particular horse.
I hope you have enough pictures of them, BFNE, because RugBug thinks we are making it all up. ???
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;7631447]
RubBug, I think your expectations are kind of biased. How many WBs do you know who have had soundness issues that have to be managed, up to and including low fences or even dressage careers? I have known plethoras. Same with QHs. Some are sound, some are not. The ones that are sound enough you keep jumping, the ones that are not you don’t. It’s that simple. How many horses do you have that have never had any soundness issues, ever? How many horses do you know that have never, ever had any soundness issue ever? Should no horse ever jump more than 2’6 just on the off chance?[/QUOTE]
Lots of horses have soundness issues. and not all WBs are built to jump. And some defy their conformation. But pretending that genetics/phenotype does not play into the equation is ignoring a big factor. Do you believe that all people should be able to play basketball well? Are there some that are more suited? Everyone can play a friendly game with friends (2’3") but maybe even a pick up game at the park (2’6") but they may not do as well and shouldn’t even attempt any league play. There are outliers that don’t have the phenotype that can still succeed, but they are not the norm.
FWIW: I’ve known A LOT of horses with no significant soundness issues. An abscess here or there but nothing else. Heck, this horse had a broken splint, a cracked shoulder and a fractured humerus (all pasture accidents…he’s a brute) all before this picture was taken and is still sound, still jumping 2’ at 23. Aside from those major accidents, which were not related to the work he was doing, he never experienced unsoundness. The biggest factor in their soundness was that they were doing jobs that they were physically suited to do and not asked to go to their limits.
Do you want me to go through my photo albums and digitize pics of all the quarter horses I have ever known that have had long careers? :lol: I just posted the two I happened to already have on shutterfly.
N’yah. 
'cause it would just be a tit for tat type thing.
Signed Rugbug - who spent the first 2+ years of her riding career on a 16+h QH who couldn’t jump AT ALL.
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;7631474]
I hope you have enough pictures of them, BFNE, because RugBug thinks we are making it all up. ???[/QUOTE]
I was just thinking that I wish I had a picture of him…he was really pretty. But there are ton of folks out here who Fox Hunt with Cheshire on stock type horses. Not typically in the first flight but often in the 2nd and 3rd fields where they still will jump a 3’ coop and post an rail. (first flight jump HUGE fences and tend to be mostly TB types). I know some folks that were bringing them in from out west, putting in some training time and re-selling.
I know from my own experience, the quarter horse mind is very very easy to work with from a training perspective.
[QUOTE=RugBug;7631443]
That doesn’t look like 3’3". Looks more like 2’9". The rail isn’t even halfway up the standards so it would have ot mean your standard are over 6’…which would be unusual as they are normally 5’ or 6’.[/QUOTE]
ohhkay. We measured it just the other day, actually. It measured a little over 3’2. Chestnuthunter actually rides with me, so she can vouch. This may be a better angle. The standard are pretty tall. http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l598/jumpingstarr/385751_403511003006504_14188592_n.jpg
I’m not about to hijack her thread to argue over something like this.
Let me put it this way: have you been in a high level sport horse program where the horses didn’t suffer the occasional injury or setback? It happens to the very best of horses, and not because they were being asked to do something that was inappropriate. a high-level jumper, dressage or eventer is under a lot of stress, and they almost all have some maintenance/soundness concerns eventually which are carefully managed. you do your best to prevent it through careful fitness and management, but a 4’+ jumper, QH or not, is very, very likely to have had some things to manage at some point in their lives so I don’t see where my “admitting” my horse had a few ups and downs is anything to scoff at. More the fact that he was jumping around at a decent height for a dozen-plus years and is still completely sound on the flat (and could jump if I wanted, I just choose to let him retire as part of his careful management)…I’d be pretty pleased with that if he happened to be a warmblood. I’ve had the horse since he was late 3/almost 4 and he’s 20 now; it would be a miracle if he’d never had an issue given all the jumping he has done.
Anyway, I do think that most anyone should be able to play basketball in the backyard with friends and think that is pretty much 2’6 with adds on a QH. FWIW, I am TERRRIBLE at basketball but it is not dangerous to me or anyone else. My mother is not sound to play basketball, so she is the exception to the basketball rule, just like there are exceptions to the 2’6 rule for all horses. Horses that aren’t sound to jump shouldn’t be doing it, that goes without saying.
fordtraktor: OP’s horse is possibly telling her that the little that she is jumping is too much. Just because you think that any horse should be able to jump a measly 2’6" doesn’t mean that it should.
To add - Yes, you should be proud of the fact that your horse did what it did for so long and that you’ve managed him well. That still does not make him the norm. You are coming to this with your paradigm. I’m coming with mine. when you make blanket statements about what any horse should be able to do, I just cannot agree having experience MANY that could not or more correctly, should not. YMMV
jumpingstarr: You are correct. If that’s the same jump, it was the angle. The second picture looks much more inline with 3’3"
I think it’s a little premaure to judge how the OP’s horse might do with reasonable maintence going forward when, to date, he’s had very basic vet care, no shoes, no Adquan/Legend/Pentosan, no hock injections-- and he’s 13 with a decent history of prior work. Quarter horse or not, I think most horses by that stage/agre are due for some maintence and OP’s horse didn’t get any until just now. So I don’t think it’s entirely fair to say he won’t hold up WELL MAINTAINED because he started to show signs at 13 of needing that.
As mentioned prior, I have a little bulldoggy QH who went strong into his late teens/early 20s. He was used HARD before he got to me. At 12 he started yearly hock injections and Adequan. He progressed up to 2x yearly injections at 14 and continued on that way until he retired. I don’t think comparing the horse he’d have been at 13 with NO MAINTENCE to the horse he was WITH MAINTENCE is even a fair comparison. And let’s not even talk about what he would have been without shoes. No way on earth he could have gone without.
Let’s not judge the OP’s horse until she sees how he is maintained. I bet with those hocks done and good shoes-- he seems 5 years younger. I don’t think he just needed the maintenence, by the sounds of it he was quite overdue. So I imagine she’s going to see really positive changes with the maintence, and if she keeps it up and maintains him well-- I think he’s probably got lots more useful miles, even jumping miles, in him. The question will be whether the time/money/energy/vet care/interest is there to keep him maintained. If it is, I bet this horse has many good jumps left in him. He’s a good sort, you can tell.
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;7631447]
Rugbug, do you want me to go through my photo albums and digitize pics of all the quarter horses I have ever known that have had long careers? :lol: I just posted the two I happened to already have on shutterfly. These horses were in the pre-digital age so the albums are all down in my basement. It seems a little much. Look, if you insist no fat quarter horses should ever jump more than 2’6. Go ahead, win. Congratulations. I’m not sure what the prize is or why you feel the need to beat up on poor jumpinstarr’s cute old clearly QH for jumping what is, by all accounts, more than 2’6.[/QUOTE]
Weird…how did you edit this post without it showing that you did?
at any rate, If you are reading my comments to mean that I am insisting that no fat QH should ever jump more than 2’6", you need to go read again.
I did not beat up on jumpingstarr. I said that jump didn’t look to be 3’3" and upon another view of the jump, stated that I was wrong previously and she’s correct that it was the angle of the jump making it look smaller. If that’s beating up on someone in your world, well, I did that. It’s not beating up on someone in my world…but differences like that is what makes the world go 'round, people get hurt feelings and the internet a very, very interesting place.
If you edit within a certain time frame (pretty much immediately after you post it), it doesn’t show up as being edited.
[QUOTE=RugBug;7631514]
fordtraktor: OP’s horse is possibly telling her that the little that she is jumping is too much. Just because you think that any horse should be able to jump a measly 2’6" doesn’t mean that it should.
To add - Yes, you should be proud of the fact that your horse did what it did for so long and that you’ve managed him well. That still does not make him the norm. You are coming to this with your paradigm. I’m coming with mine. when you make blanket statements about what any horse should be able to do, I just cannot agree having experience MANY that could not or more correctly, should not. YMMV
jumpingstarr: You are correct. If that’s the same jump, it was the angle. The second picture looks much more inline with 3’3"[/QUOTE]
I haven’t made blanket statements. I do believe, like BFNE, is that the norm is that any old horse can jump 2’6. I am very sorry for your run of bad luck that you don’t think this to be the norm. The norm to me means “barring unsoundness.” Some horses are unsound and cannot so I am not making blanket statements about everything.
I have had the most amazing assortment of misfits come through my barn, most of whom are capable of jumping 2’6. From a half dozen Halflingers, to draft crosses, to quarter horses, to Arabians, to Tennessee Walkers and Saddlebreds. I really am sorry this is not your experience. It has been a very enjoyable one for me. I hope your future teaches you lessons more in line with my paradigm because it is unfortunate to think it takes a specialized horse to jump 2’6.
By the way, I have said several times that just because most QHs ought to be able to jump 2’6 doesn’t mean OP’s horse will, and that she should she how he does. It was the blanket statements about his build being unsuitable we were responding to, as I have made clear several times. She will just have to wait and see how he responds to the injections.
Wow, this thread took quite the turn since I last checked it! If anyone is curious, my guy is doing fabulous on day 2 of stall rest after his injections. Next week I will be at an equitation prep camp, so my mom is going to manage his turnout (alone, so there will be no running about with the other horses) and she’s going to start waking/trotting him under saddle toward the end of the week.
I think that with his injections and shoes he will be much more comfortable. After I get back from camp, I’m going to start him slow over trot poles and small grids to build his confidence. Hopefully I can get him out to jumpingstarr’s place to school him over her amazing jump course!
Maybe he’s not meant to jump, and then maybe he is. All I can really do is listen to him and watch. He’s got such a big heart that I know he’ll try his very best at whatever I ask of him. Yes, he’s stocky and fat and constantly on his forehand. But he’s also safe and sweet and a solid little horse. I remember Harry de Leyer quoting that in his day, any horse could jump 3’0" and the special ones could do 4’0".
2’6" is plenty big, and there are some rated hunter shows and even hunter classics that I’d love to take him to. Maybe he won’t place, but he’ll take me around the fences safely.
This guy was a $2500 horse that we’ve had since I can remember. He won me my first belt buckle when I was 8, and now I’m about to be a high school senior and he’s still winning for me. I made him a hunter because my parents couldn’t buy me one, and he was okay with that. I remember how frustrating it was to be a green English rider who had never jumped while trying to teach this horse how to jump, but he took care of me. I’m not going to give up on him.
I think shoes will be very helpful, and I plan on getting him on a yearly injection schedule. If I need to do Adequan in addition to that, that’s fine. He’s awesome, I love him, and I’d do anything for him.
I hope to take him to college with me, so I’d like him to have many good years left! Maybe not jumping, but good years.
Exactly right, chestnuthunter. Just watch him carefully, start investing in his maintenance and you will be fine. Maybe he will be OK, and if he’s not then you can readjust and do something else with him. No need to write him off without trying the maintenance first. The fact that he’s gotten this far without any maintenance speaks pretty well of his chances of coming around with some work, I should think. If he doesn’t shape up with the injections, I would do a round of Adequan for sure (the 1 shot every 4 days for for 7 times loading series, not once a month - most vets I have spoken with now think the series twice a year is more effective than a monthly regime).
I would also suggest starting him on MSM if he is not already, I don’t recall if you said he was or not. It is SO very cheap and there are studies suggesting it is has some effectiveness. I am not a huge supplements person but that is one I just think “why not?” for only $5 a month for many brands, what’s to lose?
How good is your farrier? A farrier can make or break a horse with some issues. If yours is just OK, you might think about whether it is time to ramp it up in the farrier department. Not saying yours is good or bad, just something to think about.
My pony, built much like yours, started stopping years ago. I was young and didn’t know much, but after 2 or three barns, we decided that it had to be physical. We took him to UGA, having no idea what it could be. We thought maybe ulcers because he was balky to the leg. He was 100% sound to us. Never took a lame step. When the vets looked at him, they ran all sorts of tests for his stomach and intestines because he was sound. They were flummoxed. There was nothing wrong with him. The next day, they decided they would jog him one more time, because the way he was presenting made it seem like there had to be something physical and they weren’t finding a thing. They put tape on the point of his hips and watched him jog. He was so lame he didn’t know which leg to limp on, so he looked sound to the naked eye. It turned out he had bone chips in both hind fetlocks.
The moral of this story is that just because they seem sound doesn’t mean they are. And with a horse built like yours with the kind of past he has had, he probably has some kind of physical issue due to wear and tear.
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;7632456]
Exactly right, chestnuthunter. Just watch him carefully, start investing in his maintenance and you will be fine. Maybe he will be OK, and if he’s not then you can readjust and do something else with him. No need to write him off without trying the maintenance first. The fact that he’s gotten this far without any maintenance speaks pretty well of his chances of coming around with some work, I should think. If he doesn’t shape up with the injections, I would do a round of Adequan for sure (the 1 shot every 4 days for for 7 times loading series, not once a month - most vets I have spoken with now think the series twice a year is more effective than a monthly regime).
I would also suggest starting him on MSM if he is not already, I don’t recall if you said he was or not. It is SO very cheap and there are studies suggesting it is has some effectiveness. I am not a huge supplements person but that is one I just think “why not?” for only $5 a month for many brands, what’s to lose?
How good is your farrier? A farrier can make or break a horse with some issues. If yours is just OK, you might think about whether it is time to ramp it up in the farrier department. Not saying yours is good or bad, just something to think about.[/QUOTE]
I think he’ll be fine, too. He is on his last day of stall rest, and he’s moving around very nicely. I’ve been hand walking him a lot to make sure he doesn’t get stiff.
I will definitely look into starting him on MSM. He’s not on any supplements currently.
Our farrier is pretty good. A lot of performance barns around here use him, and he’s very knowledgeable about all sorts of shoeing. He and my vet (who actually recommended him in the first place) spoke on the phone and discussed the appropriate shoeing. Their plan sounds great to me.
I don’t understand what you mean by they put tape on his hips and then he was soo lame. How would tape make him lame if he was sound to the naked eye?
[QUOTE=TSWJB;7635412]
I don’t understand what you mean by they put tape on his hips and then he was soo lame. How would tape make him lame if he was sound to the naked eye?[/QUOTE]
It allowed the vets to see the unevenness in his gaits easier, that’s my guess.
[QUOTE=chestnuthunter;7634463]
Our farrier is pretty good. A lot of performance barns around here use him, and he’s very knowledgeable about all sorts of shoeing. He and my vet (who actually recommended him in the first place) spoke on the phone and discussed the appropriate shoeing. Their plan sounds great to me.[/QUOTE]
I’m glad you have a good farrier. But I thought your vet didn’t really do horses? I guess he knows the good circuit type farriers, but he’s primarily not a horse vet. My local to cal vet wouldn’t know who to send me to, you’re lucky.
Quote I’d like to see the look on my vet’s face when I ask for flexions. He’s more of a general farm animal type vet…we don’t really have an experienced equine vet 'round here. I’d have to haul to Tallahassee to really get answers.
