Dealing with Refusals

[chestnuthunter]

[QUOTE=PonyPenny;7630427]
If you look at the threads started by chestnuthunter, she has posted some Youtube videos. you will get an idea of how the horse jumps and his build. It is still my belief that he is just not built to do what the OP wants him to do. Not dissing the horse at all. He is a darling, chunky Quarter Horse built to do reining and other western events. His build makes him heavy on his forehand. Overtime, because he is fighting his conformation, he is probably sore or maybe just frustrated.[/QUOTE]

And that’s ok. He’s been so willing thus far, and in a way I’m glad he started telling me something was wrong. I’m happy to get him injected to help with his arthritis and keep him comfy. After July I plan to stop jumping him and find anther horse. This guy can be my fun little dressage horse, or maybe I’ll do western stuff with him. He loves, loves, loves working cows. That’s his favorite thing in the world. I’m not going to force him to jump if it’s not meant to be. It’s a disservice to him and all he’s done for me.

[equisusan]

[QUOTE=chestnuthunter;7630439]
And that’s ok. He’s been so willing thus far, and in a way I’m glad he started telling me something was wrong. I’m happy to get him injected to help with his arthritis and keep him comfy. After July I plan to stop jumping him and find anther horse. This guy can be my fun little dressage horse, or maybe I’ll do western stuff with him. He loves, loves, loves working cows. That’s his favorite thing in the world. I’m not going to force him to jump if it’s not meant to be. It’s a disservice to him and all he’s done for me.[/QUOTE]

Bravo! More people should pay attention to what their horse is good at and wants to do rather than squeezing a square peg into a round hole. I hope he feels better and gives you more jumping fun until you have another one ready to go. Best of luck!

[chestnuthunter]

[QUOTE=equisusan;7630492]
Bravo! More people should pay attention to what their horse is good at and wants to do rather than squeezing a square peg into a round hole. I hope he feels better and gives you more jumping fun until you have another one ready to go. Best of luck![/QUOTE]

Thanks! I hope so too! He’s in his deeply bedded stall with his fan, some hay, a Likit and seems pretty content. Vet said to hand walk once or twice a day. I will be at camp next week, so he will have a week of relaxing turn out where he can move and graze at his own pace.

All he has left is the 4-H show, and I only have two jumping classes- hunter hack and eq over fences. If he’s not up to it it’s not a big deal to scratch.

If I find something else, that would be great, but if not, I’m pretty happy with this guy and wouldn’t mind just taking care of him and riding him western or in dressage.

[Lix_Tetrax]

[QUOTE=chestnuthunter;7630439]
And that’s ok. He’s been so willing thus far, and in a way I’m glad he started telling me something was wrong. I’m happy to get him injected to help with his arthritis and keep him comfy. After July I plan to stop jumping him and find anther horse. This guy can be my fun little dressage horse, or maybe I’ll do western stuff with him. He loves, loves, loves working cows. That’s his favorite thing in the world. I’m not going to force him to jump if it’s not meant to be. It’s a disservice to him and all he’s done for me.[/QUOTE]

Just wanted to pop in and say I love reading posts like this. Gives me hope! Good luck OP, and I hope your sweet boy ends up being comfy again!

[vxf111]

I don’t see why, with maintenance, this horse couldn’t continue to have a useful career. I am not sure why it’s 4H and over for him. Did the vet really tell you to do one more big show and then stop jumping forever? That might be a little dire. I’d wait and see how it goes. Many, many horses wear shoes. Many, many, many get routine hock injections and/or Adequan/Legend and many, many, many continue working at a decent level well past their teens. What your horse is getting-- that’s really not at all unusual for 13 year old horse who has done the work he’s done. It’s probably overdue in his specific case, but it’s not out of the ordinary. Don’t be so pessimistic. He may well be able to jump around 2’6 with good management for many more years.

[fordtraktor]

[QUOTE=PonyPenny;7630427]
If you look at the threads started by chestnuthunter, she has posted some Youtube videos. you will get an idea of how the horse jumps and his build. It is still my belief that he is just not built to do what the OP wants him to do. Not dissing the horse at all. He is a darling, chunky Quarter Horse built to do reining and other western events. His build makes him heavy on his forehand. Overtime, because he is fighting his conformation, he is probably sore or maybe just frustrated.[/QUOTE]

This is just ridiculous, If OP can get the horse sound and feeling good, it is just fine to jump 2’6 at local shows. I just don’t understand you folks that think you have to have a warmblood to jump 2’6 fences. Come on, that’s just insane. It is just not that hard. 2’6 is barely more than a canter step for most horses, even stocky little quarter horses. Now if the injections don’t fix him up that’s one thing, but to say the horse shouldn’t jump at all because it’s a stock type is really unfair.

I hope the injections fix his issues, OP. Best of luck!

[Bogie]

[QUOTE=bornfreenowexpensive;7627463]
Bute is hard on their stomachs. One thing I do is always give it with food. Alternative would be Previcox. It is not as hard on them. It is a very small dose for a horse. Glad you are getting to the bottom of it.[/QUOTE]

Previcox is definitely easier on their stomach and it’s very easy to feed since they generally require only a single pill.

[RugBug]

@fordtraktor;7630908

This is just ridiculous, If OP can get the horse sound and feeling good, it is just fine to jump 2’6 at local shows. I just don’t understand you folks that think you have to have a warmblood to jump 2’6 fences. Come on, that’s just insane. It is just not that hard. 2’6 is barely more than a canter step for most horses, even stocky little quarter horses. Now if the injections don’t fix him up that’s one thing, but to say the horse shouldn’t jump at all because it’s a stock type is really unfair.

I think that is taking the comments about his build a little far. You do not have to have a WB to jump more than 2’6". But in the same token, not every horse can jump a 2’6" course consistently and willingly. I’ve met plenty that could do it, but it wasn’t going to be for long and it wasn’t really fair to them. Interestingly, most were stocky QH types that weren’t “built to jump.” Many of them had super useful fcareers teaching beginners to jump and had WAY more value in the many years of jumping crossrails than in the couple they could’ve done jumping 2’6" +.

I also think OP is being a bit drastic with the plans to retire this guy from jumping at all. There are many, many ways to keep this horse happily jumping for years to come. The only way I think no more jumping would be the only option is if she cannot design a program that keeps him happy, which is possible because she doesn’t have the ultimate say over the horse. If he would do best with shoes, supplements and regular injections and her mom says no way, well…a decision is being made.

[fordtraktor]

That really surprises me, RugBug. 2’6 is just not a big fence that QHs struggle to push their big bums over. It’s a big canter step, especially if you let them add. Not a big deal. It’s what the “Special Hunters” jump, and the “Limit Eq.” those are just-more-than beginner divisions that were full of 4H kids on QHs who did fine at 2’6 when I was showing. I doubt the horses are more fragile suddenly. Anyway, maybe this horse should step down to the 2’, but the generalizations about QHs just make me laugh having jumped so many of them around much larger courses than this. and no, they didn’t all go lame.

[chestnuthunter]

I didn’t mean to sound as though I was planning on retiring him from jumping forever. I would just want to keep him comfortable and happy. I don’t see why we can’t still pop over fences a few times a week and go to schooling shows. The only reason I’m looking for a new horse is because I’d like to move up in height and start going to rated shows.

No, 2’6" is not a big deal for a horse to jump, but when said horse has performed his heart out for most of his life I don’t know if it’s fair to make him do it. Above all, I just want him to be sound and happy.

[fordtraktor]

and I applaud you for that. Just do what he seems comfortable doing and you will both be fine. let your horse tell you what he is comfortable with after he has recovered and you can’t go wrong.

[RugBug]

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;7631283]
That really surprises me, RugBug. 2’6 is just not a big fence that QHs struggle to push their big bums over. It’s a big canter step, especially if you let them add. Not a big deal. It’s what the “Special Hunters” jump, and the “Limit Eq.” those are just-more-than beginner divisions that were full of 4H kids on QHs who did fine at 2’6 when I was showing. I doubt the horses are more fragile suddenly. Anyway, maybe this horse should step down to the 2’, but the generalizations about QHs just make me laugh having jumped so many of them around much larger courses than this. and no, they didn’t all go lame.[/QUOTE]

I guess our experiences tell us different things as to what is best for a horse. I’ve also seen plenty of horses that are better served by limiting the height of their jumping. By all means, if a horse is willing to do a job, do it with them. But I would bet that the majority of QHs that are out jumping 2’9" + on a regular basis ARE NOT the stocky ones. I’m willing to be wrong, though. Find me ‘many’ stocky QHs with long careers jumping higher and I will concede.

[fordtraktor]

Here are two of my stocky QHs:

This one jumped until age 18, and he’s sound enough to jump still now at 20 but he still overjumps so much he is banned: https://fordtraktor.shutterfly.com/pictures/77
Here he was at 17 in a Joe Fargis clinic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt5RFB9CnqQ

this one jumped around from age 4 to 14 when she had an unfortunate death from colic, but she was sound as a dollar her entire career: https://fordtraktor.shutterfly.com/pictures/87

[KateKat]

I feel like when I think “stocky” QH I imagine those overmuscled QH’s with tiny little feet who are used in halter classes. Because if I had watched your vids/seen your pics without you saying they were QH’s I wouldn’t have known.

[fordtraktor]

They are not hard to pick out as QHs standing in the field. Here is Ishy walking: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203732917465458&set=pb.1293847780.-2207520000.1403195893.&type=3&theater

He is quite stocky. (And this is his “skinny pic,” he’s lost weight after spending the spring in a muzzle.) The other one was even stockier in a confo pic, she was western pleasure/halter bred. And a pony. The black one has had some soundness issues over the years and is semi-retired now due to navicular (I flat him regularly but he doesn’t jump), but he is pretty darn sound for a horse that jumped around 4’ courses for the better part of 10 years, with some bigger stuff thrown in there. And then 3’ for another few years after that.

[KateKat]

Adorable! But still…I wouldn’t have known he’s a QH I don’t claim to know much about the breed though. But he definitely looks well proportioned and built nicely, so a horse like that I can’t imagine would have a hard time jumping (same goes for any other breed)

[RugBug]

[QUOTE=KateKat;7631367]
I feel like when I think “stocky” QH I imagine those overmuscled QH’s with tiny little feet who are used in halter classes. Because if I had watched your vids/seen your pics without you saying they were QH’s I wouldn’t have known.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

Fordtraktor also admits the one had soundness issues over the years that were managed.

Two does not “many” make. Here’s “mine” that wasn’t super stocky, had GREAT feet and around age 11 decided jumping much more than 2’3" was a no go and even then had to be managed to keep him doing that. This one was the most awesome, smartest horse ever. He was a blast and did do 3’ for a season. He had to be permanently retired do to soundness issues a few years later after lingering in the 2’3" to 2’6" arena. . I adore this one and she has been sound and taught many, many people the basics over the years. She has done some 2’6" but maxes out there and would not stay sound at 2’9". She’s upper teens now and not really jumping more than 2’3". I could keep going.

None of these had tiny, tiny feet. All had to add in the lines. If you went up in height, you had to be more and more accurate for them to be successful. Given their niche, accuracy was not readily available.

I don’t disagree that some stocky ones CAN do it, but I also don’t think it’s the norm…or even maybe what is in their best interest. If you have one that can do it, excellent. If you don’t, it’s better to lower your expectations, IMO, to give them a longer career at the entry levels.

[jumpingstarr]

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;7631356]
Here are two of my stocky QHs:

This one jumped until age 18, and he’s sound enough to jump still now at 20 but he still overjumps so much he is banned: https://fordtraktor.shutterfly.com/pictures/77
Here he was at 17 in a Joe Fargis clinic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt5RFB9CnqQ

this one jumped around from age 4 to 14 when she had an unfortunate death from colic, but she was sound as a dollar her entire career: https://fordtraktor.shutterfly.com/pictures/87[/QUOTE]

Couldn’t help but post my own 20 year old short, very stocky and fat QH type jumping 3’3. I know my eq is…interesting in this picture, but you get the point!
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l598/jumpingstarr/1399602_302599816544414_1457939589_o.jpg

[visorvet]

[QUOTE=Jumper_girl221;7625895]
If that is the case then his feet very well might be stinging him on landing. Maybe there was a show one time with harder footing…who knows.)[/QUOTE]

+100 my number one thought. Especially if your footing at home is soft and footing elsewhere is firmer. Even more so if the problem is getting gradually worse over time. This can be the issue even if the feet look fine and are not sensitive to testers, and even if the horse has had no such problems in the past. The only way to know for sure is to put him in some front shoes +/- pads and see if it helps.

[RugBug]

[QUOTE=jumpingstarr;7631433]
Couldn’t help but post my own 20 year old short, very stocky and fat QH type jumping 3’3. I know my eq is…interesting in this picture, but you get the point!
http://i1125.photobucket.com/albums/l598/jumpingstarr/1399602_302599816544414_1457939589_o.jpg[/QUOTE]

That doesn’t look like 3’3". Looks more like 2’9". The rail isn’t even halfway up the standards so it would have ot mean your standard are over 6’…which would be unusual as they are normally 5’ or 6’.