I’ve had a couple horses who were dirty stoppers… I would (at the beginning at least) ride with spurs, a crop, and a LOUD voice!! Another tip I have is dont worry about finding a distance… Just put on your LEG! The most important thing is that they go over. The rest can come later on. But if I’m going towards a fence, and I feel the horse start to back off and get behind my leg I will give them a good growl (Raww!) and maybe a little swack with my crop if necessary.
Sorry - Just saw this could be a medical issue. Everyone else has given good advice. Goodluck
Chestnuthunter, I’m glad to see that you’re able to get with a vet and a farrier. 
I’ll go ahead and be the neigh-sayer (ha ha) here and confess that my riding gets especially feeble at a horse show, or when someone is watched, or we’re in a new place, or any combo thereof. It is entirely possible that you’re riding differently without even being aware of it. I, personally, revert to my fetal position when I get nervous, and when I’m not riding properly, it’s prime opportunity for naughty behavior. Unfortunately it’s a vicious cycle - the horse misbehaves, I curl up even more, and the behavior gets worse!
Just something to think about if nothing comes up in the vet report…
[QUOTE=Jo;7628744]
Chestnuthunter, I’m glad to see that you’re able to get with a vet and a farrier.
I’ll go ahead and be the neigh-sayer (ha ha) here and confess that my riding gets especially feeble at a horse show, or when someone is watched, or we’re in a new place, or any combo thereof. It is entirely possible that you’re riding differently without even being aware of it. I, personally, revert to my fetal position when I get nervous, and when I’m not riding properly, it’s prime opportunity for naughty behavior. Unfortunately it’s a vicious cycle - the horse misbehaves, I curl up even more, and the behavior gets worse!
Just something to think about if nothing comes up in the vet report…[/QUOTE]
And it very well could be my riding! I’ve been in the show ring since I could walk, so I like to think I have control of my nerves, but I can feel the nervousness and worry when the ring steward calls me to get ready so I know that’s not completely true. My personal life has also been a fiery train wreck lately, so that too could be making me ride unassertively. When my assertiveness falters the least bit, this horse picks up on it and starts to act out. I’m in no way an expert rider and could absolutely be causing the refusals.
If they don’t find anything tomorrow, that will be awesome and I’ll be glad to seek some help with riding more consistently at shows.
Oh how I wish that showing since I could walk accounted for a dispelling of show nerves. Mine are getting worse as I get older. Not better.
You know what’s funny is that what I used to call excitement and focus when I was young suddenly feels bad when I call it anxiety and nervousness. After not showing for ten years and starting back very low on my ancient 20+yo hunter I’m really not nervous much. Anytime I get nervous I just sit at the ring and watch people make mistakes and live over much bigger jumps than I’m jumping. The advantage of stepping down in jump size temporarily is that it’s really allowed me to focus on the perfect changes and the ends of the ring and worry less about the jumps. When I make a mistake at 2’6" it is easy for me to leave it behind instead of carrying it with me to destroy the rest of the jumps as I sometimes did in the 3’6". When my new guy is ready for me to step back up in height I hope to bring these new skills with me.
I must confess I don’t ride stoppers. All my horses want to jump and if they decide they don’t want to whether it’s because of me or not… they will go to live with someone else. I’m too old for that crap. One of my prior jumpers was a nervous bugger who would run out and spook a lot. Really damaged my confidence back then so I won’t do it again.
I hope you find a reason and the refusals stop.
[QUOTE=Nickelodian;7627960]
Running out is a stop. Period.
Who knows. You’re nervous, you didn’t ride straight, you were looking down, you leaned, you pulled with one rein, you kicked, whatever. When my horse stops, I immediately think it’s my fault. 99.9% of the time it is.
I simply can’t think of a time where pain is the cause for a horse stopping at a cross rail. They can walk over the darned thing. If you can’t prevent a stop then that’s you, not the horse.
Now, he might in addition to that have hock problems and be ouchy from being barefoot. I’m not discounting that.[/QUOTE]
In post #14 OP mentioned the horse has refused with the trainer, the trainer could not get the horse over the fence and had to leave the ring. This was in October. No indication of how big the trainer was jumping.
However I find it hard to believe both the OP and trainer are causing the stops due to bad riding. I don’t think you can say with any certainty that stopping at a crossrail is 100% bad riding, especially with the history that OP has shown this horse before with no problems and the trainer was having refusal issues back in October.
There can be many reasons that a horse stops at a fence including a crossrail, one can be bad riding, but sore hocks, sore feet, vision issues can be other reasons.
How long have you been working with him?
(Maybe I missed this but I didn’t notice it anywhere)
I have ridden quite a few horses that when slightly intimidated by fences (fill or flowers w/e) or the environment will just flatly say no because they don’t quite trust the rider yet to keep them out of harms way.
Make sure you keep your reins short on course until this is solved. Slack in contact can make a horse feel insecure. Sit up, widen your hands if you need to and LEG. If you feel any hesitation a little deep voiced “GGGEEETTT” growl always works.
Plus, make sure you want to go over it, if he thinks you may be thinking that there is something scary, he will follow your ‘signals’. You are boss mare remember, you watch for danger.
[QUOTE=SonnysMom;7629257]
In post #14 OP mentioned the horse has refused with the trainer, the trainer could not get the horse over the fence and had to leave the ring. This was in October. No indication of how big the trainer was jumping.
However I find it hard to believe both the OP and trainer are causing the stops due to bad riding. I don’t think you can say with any certainty that stopping at a crossrail is 100% bad riding, especially with the history that OP has shown this horse before with no problems and the trainer was having refusal issues back in October.
There can be many reasons that a horse stops at a fence including a crossrail, one can be bad riding, but sore hocks, sore feet, vision issues can be other reasons.[/QUOTE]
My trainer was jumping 2’6" when the refusal happened. I took the horse around in a beautiful 2’3" course, and then had trainer hop on for 2’6". I hadn’t had any refusals, but trainer could not get him over a spooky fence with a gate that was a couple inches higher than it had been in the previous round.
I’ve been riding this horses for a grand total of 11 years. 3 of those years have been over fences, so we are pretty in sync. I would like to think I can ride him well enough to get him over a cross rail, but maybe not. The bizarre thing is that he was fine with this exact same cross rail at this exact same arena in April.
Also, today he tried to snatch his left rear away from the farrier, and he NEVER does that. Ever. We are leaving for the vet clinic in about an hour. Vet is thinking hock injections will most likely fix the refusals. He has held up for many years of hard riding, so it’s not surprising. Farrier is going to come next week and put shoes on according to vet’s recommendation.
[QUOTE=chestnuthunter;7629368]
My trainer was jumping 2’6" when the refusal happened. I took the horse around in a beautiful 2’3" course, and then had trainer hop on for 2’6". I hadn’t had any refusals, but trainer could not get him over a spooky fence with a gate that was a couple inches higher than it had been in the previous round.
I’ve been riding this horses for a grand total of 11 years. 3 of those years have been over fences, so we are pretty in sync. I would like to think I can ride him well enough to get him over a cross rail, but maybe not. The bizarre thing is that he was fine with this exact same cross rail at this exact same arena in April.
Also, today he tried to snatch his left rear away from the farrier, and he NEVER does that. Ever. We are leaving for the vet clinic in about an hour. Vet is thinking hock injections will most likely fix the refusals. He has held up for many years of hard riding, so it’s not surprising. Farrier is going to come next week and put shoes on according to vet’s recommendation.[/QUOTE]
Best of luck chestnuthunter I hope they get him all comfy again for you.
I think all signs are pointing towards him just not wanting to have a job as a jumper. Whether it’s physically too stressful or mentally too stressful, given his age, build, and background, I think he’s just saying “no”. Yes, you can try to deal with that and work through it, but if you are looking for another horse anyway, then I’d just let this guy be your fun friend at home.
I almost wonder if this whole thing is not made up. There are so many contradictions. I cannot even follow any more. If this is real, I hope the horse gets what he needs. That is all.
Wait, I’m trying to figure out this horse’s history. OP, in post #12, you said you started him over fences just 2 years ago. In post #108, you said it was 3 years.
I also thought you stated the farrier was putting shoes on him at 8am this morning and then you were going to the vet? But then you said he was just trimmed today, no shoes.
I’ve had a horse with lameness issues, I’d just like to help if our stories are similar.
I’m not a hunter so I’m just asking to help me understand the various rules - are you allowed to show in xrails if you’ve already showed higher? I know that has no bearing on the horse’s issues, I just have no idea how hunters and 4H shows work!
[QUOTE=WWGeorgeMorrisD;7629840]
I almost wonder if this whole thing is not made up. There are so many contradictions. I cannot even follow any more. If this is real, I hope the horse gets what he needs. That is all.[/QUOTE]
No, it is not made up. I can post the x rays from today if you would like proof. I’m sorry for any contradictions. To be more clear, I started riding the horse English 3 years ago. He was started over fences around that time, so I usually say 2 years ago.
The farrier did come out this morning, but did not want to put shoes on because he knew we were going to the vet’s and wanted to hear what he recommended for shoeing. Hope that cleared some things up. I do not post fake threads.
They did flexions, x rays, and ultimately injected the lower and middle joints of both hocks. He is on stall rest for 3 days. I hope they will make him comfortable, and I plan on searching for another horse to continue jumping. Never selling this guy, though.
[QUOTE=Carolinadreamin’;7629885]
Wait, I’m trying to figure out this horse’s history. OP, in post #12, you said you started him over fences just 2 years ago. In post #108, you said it was 3 years.
I also thought you stated the farrier was putting shoes on him at 8am this morning and then you were going to the vet? But then you said he was just trimmed today, no shoes.
I’ve had a horse with lameness issues, I’d just like to help if our stories are similar.
I’m not a hunter so I’m just asking to help me understand the various rules - are you allowed to show in xrails if you’ve already showed higher? I know that has no bearing on the horse’s issues, I just have no idea how hunters and 4H shows work![/QUOTE]
See Post #113. I’m so sorry for any contradictions! He was just trimmed because the farrier wanted to wait for vet’s advice on shoeing.
At a schooling jumper show (which was what this was) they don’t care what heights you’ve shown at previously. I’ve never shown at a rated show, so technically there is no record of me ever showing him over fences. At 4-h, we are supposed to show 2’6" but I don’t know if he’ll be sound. He did have his hocks injected today after seeing some arthritis in his x-rays.
Here is my sweet boy at AVS Equine Hospital today in case anyone was thinking that I’d make up an elaborate story about my best friend being in pain.
He really does look like a sweetie! It totally makes sense for the farrier to wait for the vet to look at him before putting shoes on so he could work together with the vet to come up with the best plan for the feet.
One thing to keep in mind when you get him back into jumping is that he may still try to pull some of the stopping with you again even though he feels better ,- they get into the habit and then don’t always comes out of it immediately. It’s hard, because you worry and think that he’s still ouchy and the maintenance didn’t work so you want to back off again, but if that does happen, work with your trainer to try to push through it. My vet says that rehabbing your own horse is the hardest thing because you’re so hypersensitive and worried about every little step and bobble, but then once you push through the rough patch and they realize that it doesn’t hurt to jump anymore, it will get loads better.
Good luck, and keep us posted about how he’s doing!
[QUOTE=chestnuthunter;7630161]
See Post #113. I’m so sorry for any contradictions! He was just trimmed because the farrier wanted to wait for vet’s advice on shoeing.
At a schooling jumper show (which was what this was) they don’t care what heights you’ve shown at previously. I’ve never shown at a rated show, so technically there is no record of me ever showing him over fences. At 4-h, we are supposed to show 2’6" but I don’t know if he’ll be sound. He did have his hocks injected today after seeing some arthritis in his x-rays.[/QUOTE]
Farrier waiting until the vet’s examination makes sense.
He’s a cute chunk. Hope the hock injections help! Good luck with him!!
If you look at the threads started by chestnuthunter, she has posted some Youtube videos. you will get an idea of how the horse jumps and his build. It is still my belief that he is just not built to do what the OP wants him to do. Not dissing the horse at all. He is a darling, chunky Quarter Horse built to do reining and other western events. His build makes him heavy on his forehand. Overtime, because he is fighting his conformation, he is probably sore or maybe just frustrated.
[QUOTE=hj0519;7630343]
He really does look like a sweetie! It totally makes sense for the farrier to wait for the vet to look at him before putting shoes on so he could work together with the vet to come up with the best plan for the feet.
One thing to keep in mind when you get him back into jumping is that he may still try to pull some of the stopping with you again even though he feels better ,- they get into the habit and then don’t always comes out of it immediately. It’s hard, because you worry and think that he’s still ouchy and the maintenance didn’t work so you want to back off again, but if that does happen, work with your trainer to try to push through it. My vet says that rehabbing your own horse is the hardest thing because you’re so hypersensitive and worried about every little step and bobble, but then once you push through the rough patch and they realize that it doesn’t hurt to jump anymore, it will get loads better.
Good luck, and keep us posted about how he’s doing![/QUOTE]
Aww thanks! He is an adorable sweetheart.
Yup, the vet told me today that he may still have mental hesitations about jumping even though the physical issues are (hopefully) fixed. So we’re going to start small in a couple weeks with grids and tiny fences to get him back into the groove. After July, I’m going to back off jumping with him. If he’s not meant to be a hunter, it’s ok. I can get another horse to show and he can be my adorable little dressage horse.
