After reading all this, I finally watched the video. I did not see obvious lamesness, but then am not an expert on recognizing it. What I did see, however, was a very tense horse-one that looked like it was about to explode. If you are that horses rider-how big of a lengthening do you dare ask for? Probably not much. My horse can be like this-there are days I dont like to canter, because I know he will eventually take off with me. I control him by looping in a big circle until I can get him back-but that woud be frowned on in an Olympic test. 
And the mare did not look lame leaving the arena-she was jigging, and antsy. NOT lame.
Whether it was because she was nervous and spooky, or just tired of this sport, or having a pissy day, I dont know the mare well enough to tell. The person that does know her well enough is DM.
[QUOTE=mishmash;3447748]
After reading all this, I finally watched the video. I did not see obvious lamesness, but then am not an expert on recognizing it. .[/QUOTE]
Enough said!!
[QUOTE=kkj;3447730]
Yes this is exactly it. When people, who you admire in part for what you perceive is their high integrity in the horseworld, do something that is misleading or dishonest, you are not OK with it.[/QUOTE]
My guess is that they thought they could manage Brentina’s problems well enough to get through the Olympics. Otherwise why go all the way to China?
Quick hijack here, but is Debbie not riding the GP Special or Freestyle now? Is she not qualified since her score was low?
Correct PP98 … only the top 25 rode this evening’s GPS. The top 15 from that move on to Tuesday’s Freestyle.
In a way, the judges did stop Debbie and Brentina. They may not have made them pull up during the test, which I think they would only have done if the horse was three-legged lame, but they did give them a score that didn’t allow them to move on in the competition.
the truth
[QUOTE=Equibrit;3444627]
Not a single one of you KNOW what was affecting the mare. It could have been any one of a thousand things, including abdominal discomfort, muscle problems, breathing problems to name a few. Why not just keep your feet out of your mouths and wait until there is a FACTUAL explanation?[/QUOTE]
Here!! Here!! Equibrit!!! This board is so full of so called experts who have so many opinions from watching television and not being there. A thorough vet exam found nothing wrong, mare was simply very tense as soon as she entered the arena, and at that level any tension is going to cause uneveness. Please read the facts, folks:
http://horsesdaily.com/olympics/08oly/press/derosa-index.html
http://www.dressagedaily.com/2008/dd_200808/dd_20080815-brentina.html
so stop with the guessing, ok?
there was no ‘thorough vet exam’ when the horse finished its test. And no look at the legs is going to reveal anything anyway.
Debbie said the horse was receiving mostly walk work before the test. I think that suggests there was a problem they were trying to not aggravate.
[QUOTE=slc2;3448609]
there was no ‘thorough vet exam’ when the horse finished its test. And no look at the legs is going to reveal anything anyway.
Debbie said the horse was receiving mostly walk work before the test. I think that suggests there was a problem they were trying to not aggravate.[/QUOTE]
How do you know there was no thorough vet exam slc? Also I’ve heard others say Debbie said she was receiving mostly walks…can you give us a link to where she said that? I read on dressage daily where she said “we” are walking in the morning and riding at night… I took the"'we" as meaning the other riders not just Debbie Brentina. Don’t get me wrong the mare was not right in the front right and left hind…
“We have been riding the horses twice a day. In the mornings we mostly walk and then come back and ride at night.”
Originally Posted by Sister Margarita
Thank Goodness and Amen.
I can’t believe what happened either, but for someone like Debbie McDonald, who has proven herself a real champion in the sport and in her caring for her horse, to endure all the harsh judgment from people who don’t have all the facts, were not there, don’t have one tenth the experience or knowledge as those who were there making decisions, is beyond amazing.
It must be great to sit and pontificate with your computers and sound all-knowing and slice and dice people who have given us so much. I know the vet, and he is the most animal-advocate, by-the-book, conservative vet I know. I have complete faith in the decisions that were made, and find the assertions by Monday-Morning-Quarterback Peanut Gallery Wannabees pretty crappy.
I hope your crystal balls keep you from ever having to deal with bad luck. May you always be so perfect.
Very well said, Sister! 
[QUOTE=slc2;3448609]
there was no ‘thorough vet exam’ when the horse finished its test. And no look at the legs is going to reveal anything anyway. [/QUOTE]
So they made this article up?
http://www.dressagedaily.com/2008/dd_200808/dd_20080815-brentina.html
A thorough examination by US team veterinarian Dr. Rick Mitchell proved that Brentina is sound and well further reiterating what McDonald had said immediately following her ride. “Brentina was thoroughly examined by a panel of three veterinarians per our selection process prior to entering quarantine in Germany,” said Dr. Rick Mitchell. “Furthermore we had the opportunity to observe this mare training twice daily for six weeks, and we evaluated the soundness of all the team horses on a daily basis. There was never any question during that time or now about any aspect of her soundness.”
Dr. Mitchell also explained that per the IOC rules, he evaluated each of the three horses one hour before their dressage test because a replacement was available up until that time. Brentina never demonstrated any evidence of soreness and lameness, and passed the horse inspection prior to the competition without any question.
Oh I think vets are capable of spin just as mush as anyone else, therefore I don’t necessarily believe everything just because a vet said so…JMHO I do know pain can cause tension…
Uh huh…where in that article does it actually come out and say that B had a full and thorough veterinary soundness examination of any sort whatsoever POST Grand Prix. Read again. Read closely, the spin doctors are at work and I don’t necessarily mean that the vet or DM are doing their own spinning. That stuff is pure professional gold.
[QUOTE=sascha;3448648]
Uh huh…where in that article does it actually come out and say that B had a full and thorough veterinary soundness examination of any sort whatsoever POST Grand Prix. Read again. Read closely, the spin doctors are at work and I don’t necessarily mean that the vet or DM are doing their own spinning. That stuff is pure professional gold.[/QUOTE]
Sascha it was after I posted the revised version… You don’t think there’s spin in all aspects of the horse world including vet medicine??
A thorough examination by U.S. team veterinarian Rick Mitchell, DVM, found Brentina to be sound and well. (Editor’s note: The Horse contacted the USEF to confirm that this exam took place following the competition. They confirmed that Dr. Mitchell did examine Brentina after she competed.)
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=12517
Are you saying then that the quoted bit you’ve got in your post above says that B was examined thoroughly post GP? Or are you referring to an article I’ve missed? Oh duh. Call me stupid. I see it now…I’m not sure I believe it but I see it.
Yes, actually I believe that everyone has a little spin in them but the pros are exceptional and, imho, that bit of writing is exceptional.
[QUOTE=sascha;3448663]
Are you saying then that the quoted bit you’ve got in your post above says that B was examined thoroughly post GP? Or are you referring to an article I’ve missed?
Yes, actually I believe that everyone has a little spin in them but the pros are exceptional and, imho, that bit of writing is exceptional.[/QUOTE]
I called The Horse magazine and asked them if they could get it clarified and according to the gal at the USEF that writes the press releases he did check her after she competed. I’m not sure exactly what or how he checked her though.
Perhaps that she had 4 legs, a tail, respirations and a heart beat?
[QUOTE=Rainbow Farm Unltd.;3448557]
Please read the facts, folks:
http://horsesdaily.com/olympics/08oly/press/derosa-index.html
http://www.dressagedaily.com/2008/dd_200808/dd_20080815-brentina.html
so stop with the guessing, ok?[/QUOTE]
I actually find the “facts” in that first link quite contradictory. In “Reflections on a Medal Lost,” Diana DeRosa initially registers her “shock” at not watching the US get bronze (I’m sorry; was it preordained?) and moves on to complain that “it was Germany (again) who won gold.” IMHO, they deserved gold; they had the best three tests.
Interestingly, DeRosa moves on to say this:
“As I watched in awe what was happening before me, I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. The normally rock solid Brentina started out with a ride that had no mistakes but lacked something. What it was that was missing I wasn’t quite sure of and later in chatting with some of the officials there were others who felt the same way. Something was wrong. Brentina didn’t quite seem right tonight and it all became clearer when Debbie asked Brentina to do a pirouette and what she got didn’t even resemble one.”
Notice the tone here. It’s as if she’s having an out of body expreience. Disbelief. Shock. An inability to process reality.
To reiterate: “something was wrong”…“Brentina didn’t seem quite right”… and “others… [officials] felt the same way.”
Then she takes in McDonald’s remarks:
“[McDonald] explained that something was wrong. To her Brentina just didn’t like something in the arena and did not want to be there. She did all she could to hold it together but once she lost the pirouette she knew there was no chance of salvaging the ride.”
She ends the article by seemingly dismissing McDoanld’s own assessment (!):
“The horse that had brought her so many accolades had let her down just this once and Debbie COULDN’T EVEN EXPLAIN WHY. [Emphasis mine.] But as Debbie has often said many times before, Brentina owes her nothing.”
Instead of discussing her own statement, DeRosa ends by shrouding her article in nostalgia for all the pair have done in the past.
Yes, the pair have had a phenomenal impact on US dressage. I don’t think anyone is trying to take that away from them. But to have McDonald tell us the mare is “fitter and sounder than she’s ever been” in the face of contrary opinions from journalists, at least one judge, and, yes, many spectators (whose knowledge base IS quite extensive in many cases), I smell spin.
Mind you, this is just my humble opnion – but these articles are enveloped by a sort of overemotional nostalgia I expect to see on Oprah. (Look at the articles’ titles: “Reflections of a Medal Lost,” “Bad Things Shouldn’t Happen to Nice People,” and “Debbie McDonald and Brentina: They Are Much Loved.”) I expect more from good sports reporting.
I’m watching the tests that were broadcast on MSNBC this afternoon and I think I will scream if the commentator remarks on Brentina’s “spookiness” one more time. Are all these horsepeople watching all over the world completely blind? I don’t think so. The mare was off. She didn’t look “spooky”. She looked “ouchy”. My opinion and the opinion of many, many others worldwide. I wish they’d quit pouring the Kool-Aid about “spookiness”.
Hansiska, make that at least 2 judges, because those of us Canadians watching the cbc coverage got the opinion of the O judge that was doing the commentary. It was not exactly positive in regards Brentina’s soundness during that test on that particular day. It may have been fairly careful commentary but clear as a bell to anyone with even marginal knowledge.
That’s my memory of it anyway, maybe some other Canadian remembers CW’s commentary otherwise?
