Defensive/Aggressive Horse

You are choosing to ignore the very sound advice of people with many, many years of experience with all kinds of horses. You will understand, then, that we might be less than sympathetic if you wind up injured by this horse and come crying to us.

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It sounded like a thought experiment to me, from your OP. I get it. You were just pondering.

Some of the replies got a little smackdown-y vibe to them. That seems to be a theme on COTH lately…

How sanctimonious.

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I have many, many years of experience with all kinds of horses too. 36 years to be exact. I think I mentioned that elsewhere. I’ve started my own and trained them from birth to the show ring. I’ve handled stallions and mares in the breeding shed. I’ve restarted OTTBs. I’ve been around some rank horses in my day. I’ve run boarding and training facilities. I’m perfectly capable of assessing when and if it’s appropriate to pet a horse and give it a treat. But thank you. I know you mean well.

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Not my intention. Just being realistic. OP wants to make nice with a dangerous horse, in spite of the collective wisdom of the responders here, and that’s her choice to make. Bad choices often lead to bad outcomes.

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Far as I can tell, the pets and cookies are given over the fence and maybe a couple times a year? Low risk IMO.

I’m not arguing that the advice is right or wrong, I just don’t get why people seem to be doubling down lately if the OP doesn’t immediately bow to the infinite wisdom of internet strangers and accept their righteousness as gospel. Saying what is essentially ‘you’ll be sorry’ and telling her not to come crying to “us” if she gets hurt because she doesn’t 100% agree with your advice, I’m afraid that just comes off as mean-spirited.

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I’ve been following this thread as at a barn I used to board at we had a “dangerous” mare similar to what OP described.

I fed treats with the owners blessing and I still have all my fingers and limbs. But I was extremely careful when I did it. I didn’t interact or touch other than to hand a treat and tell her how beautiful she was. I stayed a safe distance and was mindful not to appear threatening.

I wouldn’t try anything regarding training with said horse, but if owner approved, I don’t see how the very occasional treat could hurt.

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OP asked whether people here have had experience with this kind of horse. Many have, and advised her to stay away from the horse. She has decided to ignore the advice she asked for. Good luck to her.

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…other people’s horses, i keep my hands off and even try to keep my mind off of them.

With my own, i can absolutely say i’ve never had an aggressive horse…not in the end anyway. I teach all of mine very slowly, and start in protected contact with some of them, until i feel THEY feel safe and until i also feel safe.

Who knows if this horse can turn-around or not?? It depends a whole whole lot on the method and personality of trainer. Luck of the draw whether this horse’s owner will hire an appropriate match for this horse.

Again, i wouldn’t touch this horse with a 10 foot pole --unless hired by the owner.

that playing with the lip thing, and becoming BIG and disciplining that horse…from your side of the fence. That stuff… I’d recommend to you to keep your hands and your interest off that horse. It won’t help you, or the horse.

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Please, use a halter. Preferably with another person holding the lead shank. Please…

I’m pretty sure the owner would prefer you not get injured and your insurance company seeing him. Text the owner and let him know something amiss. Stay out of the pasture.

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@RhythmNCruise, do you have the owner’s permission to feed treats, adjust blankets and fly masks, pet the horse?

If you ever go into the pasture with this horse to get him out of some type of trouble please don’t do it when you are alone.

I get that you aren’t really considering trying to train him. :slightly_smiling_face:

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I would definitely use a halter. I’d probably pop my helmet on before going into the pasture as well, honestly. And maybe have a crop in my back pocket. I would prefer having someone with me as well, but sometimes that’s just not possible. This is a self-care place. We kind of look out for each other’s horses. When the old gelding next to us on the other side laid down twice within a 10 minute span near feeding time and laid there flat out breathing hard, I was in that pasture in a second, calling his owner and the barn manager. I had him up and walking him. He turned out to be just fine, thank goodness, but he’s old and the owner had just lost his pasture mate to colic, so I was sure to take action. He’s a sweet old boy.

I hope like heck if anyone sees my gelding in distress they don’t hesitate to take action. Whether it’s a twisted fly mask he’s had that before and his poor eye was a mess for a few days), a blanket strap hanging, or him acting unusual in some way, I’d rather someone step in and help him than not. I teach school and I cannot just drop everything and run to the barn if there’s something minor going on. I rely on the kindness of my barn mates just as they rely on me. Do unto others and all of that.

I appreciate everyone’s concern. I don’t mean to come off as dismissive or ungrateful for the time and energy some have put into this thread. I do hear you. I promise. I’ve dealt with dangerous horses too, which is why I’m a little apprehensive about this one. I basically saved my best friend’s life at a show many years ago when her horse grabbed her by the shoulder and threw her in the bottom of his stall. He was then lining up to kick her while she was down. I intervened with a pitchfork and held the horse off while my friend got out of the stall. I’ve handled some pretty rank stallions in my day. I’ve trained them, bred them, and shown them. I’m not an idiot. I know how to read a situation and act accordingly. But I do understand the advice. I do. Trust me that I’m not doig anything that will get the horse or myself hurt, or the horse’s nice owner.

Speaking of horses, it’s about time to go see mine. I’ve been home with a migraine today which has finally eased off.

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The owner routinely (twice a day) feeds my horse a treat and has never asked me permission because he knows he doesn’t need to ask. Maybe people here don’t have the same kind of boarding situation we do where I am, but we’re all friendly and happily look out for each other and each other’s horses.

I’m not given to taking unnecessary risks, I promise. I also promise that this fella would rather I help his horse out than just leave him to his own devices. I won’t risk my own life to do so, but if I can manage it safely, I will. Which is another reason I’d like to develop at least a bit of a rapport with the horse. He’s blanketed and fly masked all the time by people with less horse experience than me (possibly “unqualified” people by some’s standards…heh), and he hasn’t killed them.

Sigh I asked for this. I know I did. No one to blame but myself. LOL.

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Total deflection. So, the answer is NO.

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I personally wouldn’t do this, knowing what limited info I do with the horse. I’d call the owner and let them know, but I wouldn’t risk my own personal safety over a twisted fly mask.

I understand you have a lot of respectable horse experience, but do you have experience specifically with aggressive horses and rehabilitating them? I say this not to be in some way demeaning, but out of concern. If the horse you are dealing with is the type to match aggression with aggression, I can assure you that a crop in your back pocket will do very little should you get in a sticky situation and you must try to fend this horse off. I’m just not sure you understand how dangerous this situation can be and how fast things can escalate. You are also alone a lot at this barn.

Most accidents with horses like this happen with everyday, routine handling, not riding.

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We didn’t know all this from your first post.

Now I can see this is more a thought experiment based on reflecting on past experience. Also that you have enough experience to recognize how rare a truly aggressive horse like this is.

That wasn’t clear in the OP and the other details (owns quiet safe horses, loosely goosey self board situation) could also correlate with newbie or inexperienced.

If the OP said “I’ve had over 35 years in horses, including restarting OTTB, handling stallions in the breeding shed, and bringing along babies from birth to show ring. But this new horse at my current barn is off the charts aggressive, nothing I’ve ever encountered before. Do you think there is any hope for him?”, then I think we’d be meeting your further along the “experienced horse person” track. My first reaction was “I need to make sure this well meaning person isn’t trampled to death.”

Now that we know you have experience it’s different conversation.

Some posters yeah, I recall chunks of their CV but honestly that’s often when they’ve distinguished themselves in a negative way :slight_smile: or caused a really good trainwreck thread

I don’t necessarily know who all has significant industry experience versus just being a casual ammie unless the OP reminds us.

So apologies for being patronizing and alarmist.

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Just calling this out, as it’s a very good point in general. To make contact with a crop or stick puts you(g) WELL within bite/kick/strike range. You really don’t know how a strange horse is going to react, and if you(g) have ever seen a boss horse go after a herd mate, by golly they move fast.

IIWM I wouldn’t be feeding or interacting with this horse more than talking to him over the fence as I go about my day. I might shove a feed bucket under the gate or toss hay over the fence if asked to do so by the owner, but I would not be going into his field under any circumstances. It’s one thing to go fix a blanket strap on a cranky horse that’s a known entity and is handled regularly. It’s something else entirely to do so with someone else’s horse that is this unpredictable and unknown. I’ve seen the damage a horse can do just biting someone over their stall door, as well as what just a glancing, accidental kick can do.

Be safe, OP. You’re there IRL and can judge the situation better, but just remember that your horses depend on you staying in one piece! This isn’t a young horse or stallion that’s been handled and generally reacts in a predictable (if undesirable) way. This is a horse that despite his athleticism and good looks has fallen through the cracks, and that multiple pros have declined to work with just since this current owner has had him.

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It is not the treat giver that gets hurt. It is the person without treats who get bitten, further on down the line, because the horse is used to getting a treat and then it is not there. So it is the fault of the treat giver.

Remember that person without a treat could be a child.

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I never took OP as being a newbie, shes been posting here for around 10 years and don’t recall anything unusual.

I took her as getting a little bit emotionally involved in the situation, as many of us can when we think we can help. She just needed a little honesty on the reality of the situation.

Think the owner here doesn’t know what he doesn’t know and is taking advantage of those who know to make up for it. He has no idea what that horse could do.

That will get you hurt. Be careful.

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