Wonder why it was removed. Would that be the riders request or the shows own gumption?
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Easy, itās already done;ā¦FINE AND SUSPEND
- give EVERY judge/steward full authority to DQ them immediately (again I donāt know the ins and outs of what the current rules say, but as evidenced here they need to be strengthened)
Categories of Rule Violations
I. Excessive Use of Whip or Spurs and Improper Use of Bits
- Excessive or intentional use of whip or spurs or improper use of a bit to cause harm or pain to a horse/pony. [LIST]
- First Offense - Suspension of 6 months and $6,000.00 fine
- Second Offense - Suspension of 12 months and $12,000.00 fine
- Third Offense - Suspension of 24 months and $24,000.00 fine
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Seems to me that she should be suspended and charged a fine!
Please do NOT do this. The show was under no obligation to provide the live stream and while as I previously posted just by entering a show one gives up an expectation of complete anonymity, I can certainly see that having people make a federal case out of something will compel competitors to push back on having live streams at all. The show management can remove whatever video they want from their site for whatever reasons. We are NOT ENTITLED to any video.
For those advocating fines and suspensions and rule changes, I suggest you read the rules, they are already clear in this regard. Also, individuals can file complaints against competitors so if you feel that strongly YOU can take action.
She was disqualified, she got a low score, what else do you want? Do you really think an even lower score would make a difference?
I am not defending the rider and am not condoning her horsemanship but really people, if this is the worse youāve seen done to a horse you have led a charmed life.
This is exactly why unauthorized video is prohibited at so many events. Sheesh!
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Snipped by me
I want a judge to ring someone out when a horse is getting booted over and over again with spurs, and whipped continuously over the riders shortcomings.
This is exactly why video should be more prevalent.
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atlatl and Senden,
I very much appreciate both of your posts. But they both leave the question, why wasnāt a sanction imposed for the second ride, where the use of whip and spurs was excessive and intentional?
The first ride was just a bad ride. If not knowing how to sit a big trot was a crime, well, I would have been in jail early in my career, and I would have lots of good company. Same for being handsy/overuse of the reins - weād have to build more jails.
But the second ride crosses a line, in my mind, in that it wasnāt just bad riding, it was intentionally punitive. Why wouldnāt steward impose a fine for that? Thereās clearly a rule in place that allows for it. Did someone check the horse for blood or spur marks after that test? Horse could easily have had spur marks or blood after all those Pony Club kicks with spurs.
If weāre comparing this to the social media outcry of Jazz Johnsonās behavior after failing off at the Hampton Classic; Jazz Johnson didnāt actually make contact with her horse. In my mind, this riderās actions were much worse.
I know jumpers have been fined for excessive use of a whip when correcting a horse for a refusal; and jockeys can also be fined for excessive use of a whip. I donāt see this as different.
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Slightly suspicious that itās gone, however I am also kind of hoping that means they plan to actually do something about the situation.
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If there was no horse involved and a person was walking around the show grounds behaving this way, hitting and yanking their child or another person, you can bet your sweet bippy that this abuse would not be tolerated and the person would be kicked off the show grounds. Authorities would likely be called and the abuser would dealt with.
But no. Itās just a horse and itās just dressage. If a person did this do a dog in public, authorities would also be called.
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I doubt the organizers are ādoing something about the situation,ā as there is very little they CAN do at this point. I certainly hope, though, that word has gotten out to all show organizers in the area, and they will tip off their TDs at upcoming shows. If a TD watches that kind of abuse and does nothing about it, then she ought to have her credentials yanked.
That said, I invite that rider to come sit on my horse. He will let her know tout de suit that she isnāt going to treat him like that and get away with it - she will end up in the hospital.
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Was this an FEI event? If so, I am very curious why no Yellow Card. Abuse of horse.
In eventing, Yellow cards are giving out like candy. People get them for unleashed dogs, one got one for having a pony on grounds that wasnt registered with the show.
1 Like
I was not physically present at this show, however, I was at the Temecula show and there was a ring steward doing the bit,spur, whip and blood check at the exit gate. I assume the same happened in Del Mar, but as I said I was not there.
Stewards cannot impose fines, if there is physical evidence of abuse, they call the TD whoās purview it is, I believe, to take action. The rules are very clear about the roles of the judges, the TDs and the show officials regarding disqualification and sanctions.
If people are concerned that the USEF and USDF officials did not do their duty, they are free to file complaints against those same officials.
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Well thatās great. WHY then was the ride not stopped or the rider not sanctioned?
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some one remind me NEVER to register in a horse show thatās going to be live streamed!
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exactly, that is what I want to knowā¦??? Doesnāt this fall under USEF jurisdiction? (Itās a long thread, no I donāt have time to read every page, sorry!)
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Maybe the pony had it removed??:lol: Too bad, even though the pony was naughty, it was nice to watch the ride.
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That is not really fair. We are talking about a horse being treated very poorly in public (yes, I know worse things happen behind closed doors) not just a bad ride.
I will go ahead and put my money where my mouth isā¦ Iām a bit bent out of shape that she scored a 50% (or was it 51%?) prior to her elimination. The work was SO bad- almost none of the movements were done correctly and on top of it she was continuously smacking her horse in the face, kicking/spurring him excessively and also one handed hitting himā¦ This test (me and my horse from last spring) scored a 59.5%:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1K-hj5czMw
While there was clearly a lot to improve on, the ride is not terrible. I think the score I got was on the low end of the fair spectrum but definitely not unfair.
I think if a score of a 5 signals sufficient, then that I-2 ride should have scored in the 40s. There was nothing sufficient about it.
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No, she was entered in a National class.
While I agree it was awful to watch and a clear example of poor riding, poor horsemanship and poor sportsmanship, I think calling it āabuseā is over the top. If thatās the case than every horse in a beginner lesson program is being abused, and probably most horses at trail ride facilities too.
She was eliminated because of improper use of the whip - improper because it was one handed, not because she was wailing on him with excessive force. She wasnāt. The spurring was worse IMO, though some of it was unintentional due to her lack of balance and poor position, same goes for the pulling on the mouth. Awful to watch, but largely unintentional. The yanking his face after the final halt was inexcusable and was just a display of spite and frustration though. But does that technically meet the standard of āabuseā or is it just really bad behaviour.
The rules copied above state excessive use of the whip / spurs to āintentionally cause pain.ā Do you really think that was this riderās intent? I think her intent was to make the horse go forward and make him do what she believed she was asking him to do, not to intentionally cause him pain. Should she know better? Yes. Should her trainer have prevented her from riding at this level in the first place? Also yes.
I think the judges would probably have loved to stop the ride but felt they had no grounds to do so. Axelās commentary seems to support this.
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The very qualified Axel Steiner agrees with you and stated clearly several times during the test and after that it was an āinsufficient rideā and should be scored as such, ācomfortably below 50.ā
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I donāt know about you but my school horses never encounter that kind of abuse and never will. They may endure bouncing and not correct aids but never physical punishment nor the use of anger as a substitute for competency. The ride was disturbing to watch and tantamount to a childās violent tantrum. If there isnāt a reason to eliminate such riding in the ring as it happens there darn well should be. What a disgrace.
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By abuse - I meant the FEI definition of abuse regarding excessive use of the whip
āA horse shall never be hit more than three times for any one incidentā
āAn Athlete identified as misusing or excessively using the whip will be disqualified and may be fined at the discretion of the ground juryā
Taken from this case; [URL=āhttps://inside.fei.org/system/files/01-CRELIDO-Final_Decision_%209July2010_1-1.pdfā]https://inside.fei.org/system/files/...ly2010_1-1.pdf
Here is the rule:
2.2.1 Excessive use of the whip
ā¢ The whip cannot be used to vent a riderās temper. Such use is always excessive;
ā¢ The whip is not to be used after elimination or after a horse has jumped the last fence on a course;
ā¢ The whip is never to be used overhand, (for example a whip in the right hand being used on the left flank. The use of a whip on a horseās head is always excessive use;
ā¢ A horse should never be hit more than three times for any one incident. If a horseās skin is broken, it is considered excessive use of the whip.
ā¢ An Athlete identified as misusing or excessively using the whip will be disqualified and may be fined at the discretion of the Ground Jury
from https://horse-canada.com/straight-up/more-on-shame-fei/
