Del Mar Live Stream

[atlatl]

@Samantha37

This was my thought and my big issue. Yes, we can all clearly see the quality that is there in that horse, but it is not being displayed in this test.

Can you imagine what would happen if someone on an average horse rode this like?! They would get a 30%!

At I2, yes they probably would.

[Samantha37]

@atlatl

Sigh, this is my biggest issue with this thread. There appear to be people complaining on this thread without an appreciation of the details of A) how tests are written and scored and B) how judges are trained. So while someone with that appreciation, and frankly a licensed judge could make such a comparison, few others can. I’m not a judge but am working in that direction.

Case in point; NONE of the scores in a national test are labeled “sufficient”. 5 is marginal, 6 is satisfactory.

So few take the time to read the rules or really learn about the sport. 2nd level is where collection is expected and the horse’s gaits are considered in every box in every test. That’s, IMO, what accounts for the scores of the two rides in question.

Oops - that is my bad on the “sufficient.” I couldn’t remember the specific term used for a 5 and a quick google search failed me.

Yes, horse’s gaits are important and included in the judging, and I am well aware that I have to learn how to be stronger in other areas to make up for my horse’s natural gaits being less than desirable. Totally OK with that. It is making me a better rider and horseperson.

BUT - even Axel Steiner agreed- that test should have been “comfortably” below a 50%. I have read your posts and understand what you are saying about the difference in the tests and how they are scored, etc. But is it really correct judging to reward (because yes, I consider a 51% to be a reward for that ride) a BTV horse even though he has beautiful gaits (which are not even shown very well due to the rider), and riding which is so harsh?

I thought the test the day before should have scored a 51% and I thought that was fair. They showed the majority of the movements and the aggression from the rider that we see in the second day was not there. But to score that abusive ride where most of the movements are not fully shown or even close to correct a 51% is just asinine IMO

[Manni01]

@atlatl

Sigh, this is my biggest issue with this thread. There appear to be people complaining on this thread without an appreciation of the details of A) how tests are written and scored and B) how judges are trained. So while someone with that appreciation, and frankly a licensed judge could make such a comparison, few others can. I’m not a judge but am working in that direction.

Case in point; NONE of the scores in a national test are labeled “sufficient”. 5 is marginal, 6 is satisfactory.

So few take the time to read the rules or really learn about the sport. 2nd level is where collection is expected and the horse’s gaits are considered in every box in every test. That’s, IMO, what accounts for the scores of the two rides in question.

agree very much!!!

[ToN_Farm]

@atlatl

Sigh, this is my biggest issue with this thread. There appear to be people complaining on this thread without an appreciation of the details of A) how tests are written and scored and B) how judges are trained. So while someone with that appreciation, and frankly a licensed judge could make such a comparison, few others can. I’m not a judge but am working in that direction.

Case in point; NONE of the scores in a national test are labeled “sufficient”. 5 is marginal, 6 is satisfactory.

So few take the time to read the rules or really learn about the sport. 2nd level is where collection is expected and the horse’s gaits are considered in every box in every test. That’s, IMO, what accounts for the scores of the two rides in question.

I knew that 5 was changed to Marginal for National Tests below FEI. I thought we followed FEI rules for non-CDI FEI tests where I believe 5 is still considered ‘sufficient’.

[MysticOakRanch]

@ToN Farm

I knew that 5 was changed to Marginal for National Tests below FEI. I thought we followed FEI rules for non-CDI FEI tests where I believe 5 is still considered ‘sufficient’.

Correct on the FEI language - from the FEI rulebook, 5 is sufficient. But this was not a CDI though, so the National rules use the term “marginal” for a 5 for all tests (including FEI tests).

[Mardi]

From the Writing of Riding column:
"But also, every person who has come in contact with her [SB] and had the ability to say no has contributed directly to the abuse of the horse.

As was said many times, Vorst D is a fine fine horse to put up with such horrendous riding. He should have knocked her in the dirt a long time ago, yet like so many horses he instead put up and shut up, and was rewarded by this callous cow by having his mouth yanked on during and after the test."

Once again, horses are the best teachers. By being accommodating and forgiving, Vorst D got her through the test safely, and gave her an extraordinary video to learn from. His grace under pressure overcame her frustration and anger.

How unfortunate that no person on the showgrounds had the where-with-all to save him the trouble.

[lorilu]

I do believe the only person who could eject her from the test is the judge at C - certainly not the ring steward. I wrote a comment on the blog that is waiting approval - we will see if it stands. I commented regarding the qualifications for judges. It is sad that the blogger feels the need to throw all the judges under the bus without knowing that current riding scores (“no FEI record”) is not required for judges - just scores to qualify to judge, and of course continuing ed. But IMO that is her style.

[Cowgirl]

Yes, they changed “sufficient” to “marginal” for scores of 5 a few years ago in national tests. I forgot about that, but they did it because people were too comfortable with a score of “5” and they thought that “marginal” would send a message that those people still had work to do. But “marginal” also means that they are at the correct level. This woman was NOT at the correct level and was not even marginally in the correct test for her abilities. So you are splitting hairs here. Whether “sufficient” or “marginal”, the score was NOT appropriate for this test. I am beside myself that a judge thought it was ok to score her enough 5s and 6s to make up for what should have been 1s, 2s, and 3s and errors of course for taking hands off the reins.

[Sticky_Situation]

I didn’t see the video of the test that sparked all the outrage, only the one of this rider’s other test. It was ugly, bad riding and she was definitely not ready to compete at that level … but I did not see intentional cruelty. Was it pleasant for the horse? Undoubtedly not, but I believe this was due to incompetence rather than intentional abuse. However, from the sound of things the removed video DID show the rider taking out her anger on the horse in an intentional way.

That said, that “Writing of Riding” blog annoys me, simply because the author is one of those fanatical, self-righteous types that seems to go on a crusade any time that a still photo shows up of a horse behind the vertical. That doesn’t excuse any rider for intentionally being cruel to their horse, but I wouldn’t take the authors statements as unbiased truth, either.

[Samantha37]

@Cowgirl

Yes, they changed “sufficient” to “marginal” for scores of 5 a few years ago in national tests. I forgot about that, but they did it because people were too comfortable with a score of “5” and they thought that “marginal” would send a message that those people still had work to do. But “marginal” also means that they are at the correct level. This woman was NOT at the correct level and was not even marginally in the correct test for her abilities. So you are splitting hairs here. Whether “sufficient” or “marginal”, the score was NOT appropriate for this test. I am beside myself that a judge thought it was ok to score her enough 5s and 6s to make up for what should have been 1s, 2s, and 3s and errors of course for taking hands off the reins.

Yes. Yes. Yes!!!

[emipou]

I’m late to this thread. By the time I tried to find the video, it had been removed - which I think was a good thing.
But of course I was curious so I did some google stalking and found the rider in a question and a horrible article written about her. I immediately recognized her (and confirmed attendance) from a show I attended last year in Ventura County.

I remembered her because her ride was really… poor. It was painful for everyone to watch. But there wasn’t really anything abusive happening that I recall.

It saddens me that she’s being spotlighted like this. I guess the silver lining is that so many are willing to speak up about the horse’s welfare (? I think? )
I just really hope the rider in question is able to treat this as a learning opportunity and find a good trainer who will help her step back and relearn some basics.

The horse is gorgeous. This is the horse that made me realize I love chestnuts.

[Joanne]

“But of course I was curious so I did some google stalking and found the rider in a question”

No need to google stalking to find her name. She was named right in this thread. As a matter of fact, right on the first page of the thread.

[Scribbler]

@dressurpferd01

Yes you did miss something. Those of us that watched the video that day, and subsequently before it was removed saw that she was scored, a 51% before later being eliminated. She wasn’t eliminated until well after her ride was over.

Ok I missed this! Then the judges really did think about what happened and acted presumably on reviewing video evidence. Good for them! I didn’t realize this was possible, to eliminate later on. I would say then that the judging system is working.

[emipou]

@Joanne

“But of course I was curious so I did some google stalking and found the rider in a question”

No need to google stalking to find her name. She was named right in this thread. As a matter of fact, right on the first page of the thread.

Yeah, I only got a few pages in, not 14 pages in…

Sometimes the dressage community bums TF out of me.

[OneGrayPony]

The rider in question was abusive emipou. Downright abusive. She jabbed the horse abusively out of anger with the spurs and whipped him one handed, then coming out of the ring she jerked on his mouth. I don’t think it’s the community that is the problem.

Honestly, I wish the ride was still up.

[smoofox]

It is available - scroll down on the blog page… https://www.writingofriding.com/in-t…elley-browning

And I agree that this blogger tends to go on crusades and congratulate herself on how very clever she is…

[OneGrayPony]

@smoofox

It is available - scroll down on the blog page… https://www.writingofriding.com/in-t…elley-browning

Oops! They added the ride now, never mind.

[OneGrayPony]

But they cut off the face jerk at the end, just watched it again.

[Manni01]

thanks for posting the link again… I watched it also again… I know I don’t like to harass people and I know that I am not the best rider and I have never ridden I2 so I should really just shut up, but still its something to watch… I really have never seen anything like this in a competition and I really wonder what the rider was thinking. And Axel Steiner was doing a great job… I think he was really challenged to think what he should say

[mswillie]

Deleted post. someone else already posted the link.