My heart breaks for that wonderful horse.
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KellyP, you obviously didnât read the thread, because if you did, you would see that the trainer name has been listed and also the Diederik ride has been put up. Also, it was unecessary to bring politics into this thread. Lastly, your posts are always long and paragraphs would help.
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Looking at the scores of her other horses, over time it appears she gets them, gets decentâish scores and then over time those scores come down⊠sheâs souring them, sheâs in-training them⊠those poor horses.
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NO horse performing so willingly should be forced to endure that. It goes against the very core principles of horsemanship. That horse has done everything right. He has cooperated. He has tried. He has given his heart and put his trust in his people. He has probably spent his whole life obliging the superficial whims of humans, and this is what he gets for it.
Perhaps there should be some sort of actionable offense that comes into play before the âabuseâ card. Given the pressures from RARAs I am reluctant to categorize these grey areas as abuse.
But a Violation of the Spirit of Horsemanship it is. And if the result of this publicity is that she is humiliated and quits and sells that splendid animal I will be none too pleased.
I come over from HJ land and was adamantly against the public outcry over JJ. That horse peeked, propped, launched and then rooted. Her response was horribly incorrect, ill-timed, and wrong in every respect, but a millisecond of what was otherwise a competent-enough show trip. It was a temper tantrum worthy of a child, and the Federation punished her in appropriate fashion.
This is not the same. And since no one in this horseâs immediate circle appears to be standing up for him, and itâs difficult to envision how the Federation could act on this in any formal manner, it is the duty of every knowledgeable and feeling equestrian to stand up and say THIS IS WRONG.
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Got it. Thanks. I cut and pasted what I wrote and the paragraphs disappeared in the process. I will do a better job next time. Thanks for reading it in any case.
I did read a lot of the thread but didn't see the trainer mentioned. And I do think it is the trainer's responsibility to fire someone who insists on showing at a level they have no business showing at. Shelley should not be riding above first level until she can properly sit the trot and has independent aids. If this hits too close to home for you, like if you get scores like this but insist in showing FEI, then the same goes for you.
Also, I did not see the Dutch article posted anywhere on this thread. It is not a video of the former owner riding, but it is a video of Shelleyâs ride with Axelâs commentary and an article with a Dutch perspective on all this.
As for my political comments, I stand behind them 100%. We are a huge embarrassment in the Netherlands both with Donald Trump and now with Shelley.
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Who gives a flip whether we are âa huge embarrassment in the Netherlandsâ? :lol:
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As for the scores - this was a 2018 FEI test. FEI in all its great wisdom removed all the collective remarks from those tests except for the rider mark. The collective marks for paces, impulsion, and submission have been eliminated, and the judgeâs impression for those traits is now included in the individual movement scores. So it is very possible that this sainted horseâs quality brought the individual movement scores up - maybe instead of a 4 for a movement, judge gave a 4.5 or a 5 because the horse was clearly trying to do things correctly.
For those that saw the video - did they have a running electronic scoreboard? What was the collective score for the rider?
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I care and would assert that so do many many other people who care about US. dressage. It makes us look bad period, and that is very unfortunate! If you are going to go to a big competition with international judges and a live stream commentary with Axel, please be able to do a half decent test at the level you are riding. I mean I know things can go wrong and we all have a bad ride or two, but if you canât even sit the trot properly, just donât go there.
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Unless Trump was riding Vorst D in the same way (or worse) and giving the Netherlands the finger when he halted at X, there is no need to insert politics hereâŠ
Re: seeing a video of yourself riding⊠I had always thought that I was sub-par when it came to riding - I lacked the athleticism and the slim build and long legs of the talented riders who seemed to have everything come to them naturally and easily. I only started riding seriously in my mid thirties and lacked the benefit of years of riding and experience prior to that. I worked hard to improve but just figured I would do my best and be happy with any dressage score over 50%. I could not ride every day due to my job, I used the lesson horses at the barn as I could not afford my own - nevertheless, I persisted. I was proud of my very first score/ribbon from a schooling show - I still have it somewhere - a mighty 54%!
The horse I usually rode was a huge H/J mare whose owner was away at college - so she was leased to the barn as a lesson horse⊠but a hot one. I always wondered why the fire-breathing dragon to deal with on the ground and fidgety and flighty under saddle until she had lots of work was assigned to me - but I worked hard to come to an understanding with her.
Months later, we were at a regional show and our instructor had a friend video all of our tests.
The first night, we sat and watched them⊠and I was cringing to think of what I was going to see. After all, in the warm up ring the Dragon had had a minor tantrum and gone sideways a couple of timesâŠ
In comes this big lanky horse with familiar chrome and a decent trot - needed to be more forward and the rider adjusted that after the decent halt and salute. It was me - and HJ Dragon mare⊠and I watched in a bit of amazement. I did not suck. I looked a bit odd on such a tall leggy horse - but we were okay. Nothing glaringly bad. A transition or two needed to be lighter. Canter work was okay⊠was it amazing and stupendous? Of course not - but it was not awful and HJ mare was relaxed and working well. No hands crossing over her neck, no kicking, no yanking, no protests from the horse, no locked elbows, no leaning back (or forward), no bouncing at the sitting trot⊠it made me feel great - no, almost deliriously happy⊠I did not suck! So all the work was worth it. Did I ever get to be a high level rider? No⊠but I enjoyed myself immensely. And I once had the pleasure of showing a GP schoolmaster of a Trakehner mare who made me laugh out loud when I found the buttons and the balance and did my first proper canter pirouette and passageâŠ
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Smoofox if this is how you ride, "No hands crossing over her neck, no kicking, no yanking, no protests from the horse, no locked elbows, no leaning back (or forward), no bouncing at the sitting trot⊠it made me feel great - no, almost deliriously happy⊠I did not suck! " you have nothing to be ashamed of and I am not directing any of my ire at you. If you bought an international GP horse and insisted on showing it at FEI when you were committing all of the riding sins you referenced, I would take issue with that. An amateur riding a horse well-suited to them and doing the best they can at a level that is reasonable is awesome. I have no issues with that at all. Riding a school master to learn as long as your very riding it is not abusive because a) it is lame or b) you do not have the skill set yet to ride it in a way that is not abusive, is also awesome.The sport needs that and I am always 100% for anyone enjoying their horse in a way that is not blatantly abusive.
Ton Farm buying a horse with âinternational gaitsâ which you cannot sit at all and entering him at Del Mar, well yes that is not acceptable. If you canât sit him, then you have no business riding in a double let alone competing him at FEI. I have no idea about you, your skills or the horses you ride, but if you think it is OK to buy a horse you cannot sit and then ride that horse in a double bridle and enter high profile competitions, I strongly disagree with you. Horses should not have to tolerate that and as the sport should not allow it. Listen horse sports are at a big disadvantage in terms of the clout we can assert as athletes because the horse is so much of the equation. People have been buying ribbons and medals etc for a very long time, and I donât respect that. There is no other sport like this. I can not pay Michael Phelps a few million and borrow his arms and legs to compete in USA Swimming. Sure you have to be able to ride to some degree to get the scores (as is evidenced by the ride and rider this thread is about) but a saint of a horse can make up for a not so adept rider.
As for me, every horse I have ever owned since my first Shetland 40 plus years ago, I brought along myself. I started my first pony when I was 12 and have started and brought along many horses in many disciplines since then. By the way I have not fit on a pony since I was 13, sadly enough, because I love ponies very much. If I could fit on one would ride it proudly!
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@kellyppolitics belong somewhere other than this dressage forum. Drop it.
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Itâs at the bottom of the page. Look for her ride on FRIDAY.
https://www.writingofriding.com/in-the-media/the-dressage-community-has-failed-shelley-browning
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I was just responding to the comment upthread about how watching video of yourself can be eye-opening - and for me, it was - in a good way!
Although the test I was videoed in was not I-2, I was better than the rider in question (who did all the things I listed and more) on a far less talented and knowledgable horseâŠ
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Umm I think she would know she was having a bad ride. That lovely horse cow kicked more times than I can count due to her overuse of the spurs and bad timing of use of the whip. Must of been a very rough ride to sit. Those hands OH MYâŠI have no words. It was really painful to watch and that horse was a saint for really putting up with her but he let the judges know it was her not him. I think she should have been rung out.
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I never said anything remotely close to that. My comment was in response to you (and others) saying she belonged at First Level. That may be true, but maybe not. Iâm saying that on a smaller horse with flatter gaits she might not be so bad. Nobody with common sense would think she rode well enough on that horse to be in the I1, or maybe any other level. On another horse, who knows.
Um, what about Ketadog Admiral? Isnât that a pony that you competed at the National Dressage Pony Cup?
After I read this sentence of your long post, I stopped reading. That means I ignored 95% of what you wrote.
Donât worry about âthe Dutchâ weighing in. As long as they can sell horses to US dressage riders of all levels, theyâll be happy to take the money. As the president said in Davos, âAmerica is open for business !â
LOL.
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Hi Kellyp,
If you are composing in Word, you will have this disappearance thing happen easily. What will help, is if while in Word, you do a Shift-Enter to create an âinternet friendlyâ paragraph break, and then do two, to create the space. Then, when you move over to the posting box, I think it will show up better. But I just make sure they are there when I try to proof in the posting box.
And, I understand, and agree with you about the embarrassment part, buut â sometimes we need to be embarrassed quietly. Just out of a staying on topic way of looking at things.
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âUm, what about Ketadog Admiral? Isnât that a pony that you competed at the National Dressage Pony Cup?â No I donât know her or that pony. Donât sully her name with my opinions.
Anyway, she would probably do a lot better on a flatter moving easier less fancy horse, but she has an ego problem and an anger issue. Until that is resolved, I think she should stay off all horses. Some people just arenât emphatic enough or capable of developing feel enough to deserve to ride in my opinion. On the other hand some people are naturals and have a ton of talent and feel even without endless coaching. Most of us, (myself included) fall somewhere in the middle. Maybe she can get better and overcome her issues, maybe not. I have seen people take a million lessons and clinics and not ever really get it. I have seen people never learn to sit the trot or develop feel and blame the horse. Maybe if she went back to the lower levels on a more amateur friendly horse she would learn to sit properly and learn to take joy in all the horse has to give her. Then again maybe she would still be selfish and impatient and angry. Hard to say.
Moreover, there are people in the US and Europe and pretty much everywhere who would not sell their horse to a person who is clearly not capable of riding that horse. Not everyone will sell a horse down the road to the wrong home for a lot of $$. Not everyone horse person in Holland is just looking to make a buck off of Americans. It is very insulting to insinuate that. Moreover, I can tell you unequivocally that no horse of mine would ever be for sale to someone who rode it like that. I would rather sell the horse for half the money to a good capable feeling rider.
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