Del Mar Live Stream

[see_u_at_x]

Moreover, there are people in the US and Europe and pretty much everywhere who would not sell their horse to a person who is clearly not capable of riding that horse. Not everyone will sell a horse down the road to the wrong home for a lot of $$. Not everyone horse person in Holland is just looking to make a buck off of Americans. It is very insulting to insinuate that. Moreover, I can tell you unequivocally that no horse of mine would ever be for sale to someone who rode it like that. I would rather sell the horse for half the money to a good capable feeling rider.

Is it possible that the trainer went to Europe and tried the horse instead of the rider herself? If so, then Diederick and his family wouldn’t have known what kind of rider they were actually selling the horse to.

[DrHB]

I watched it. Wow, that gal cannot ride and she has no idea where her hands are moving, or she gets terribly confused as to where they should be. She has NO core strength and without that, she cannot sit the trot and cannot control those flapper hands. She would do well to find a dressage-trained Tennessee Walker! :eek:

Wow to that horse! He has awesome gaits and I can only imagine what those gaits look like when he is ridden well.

I have a feeling from watching that video that this horse is going to buck her to kingdom come one of these days. I think it’s in there. That powerhorse is no wimp. And he is sucking back a lot, suggesting that he has or will slam on the brakes one of these days and go up. Perhaps he has a game plan…

Horribly ugly ride!

[JustTheTicket]

@DrHB

I watched it. Wow, that gal cannot ride and she has no idea where her hands are moving, or she gets terribly confused as to where they should be. She has NO core strength and without that, she cannot sit the trot and cannot control those flapper hands. She would do well to find a dressage-trained Tennessee Walker! :eek:

Wow to that horse! He has awesome gaits and I can only imagine what those gaits look like when he is ridden well.

I have a feeling from watching that video that this horse is going to buck her to kingdom come one of these days. I think it’s in there. That powerhorse is no wimp. And he is sucking back a lot, suggesting that he has or will slam on the brakes one of these days and go up. Perhaps he has a game plan…

Horribly ugly ride!

You said pretty much everything I was going to. I don’t necessarily see her ride as abusive, but it was incredibly ineffective and downright embarrassing to watch. She needs to let go of her ego, hit the gym for some strength training, and then find a trainer who won’t let her off the lunge until she’s capable of riding the horse she’s bought.

I cant figure out why you’d be willing to go showcase that kind of riding in public. She clearly knows the ride was bad- hence the lashing out at the horse. So weird. I’d imagine she’s got lots of money and it impresses (non horsey) people she knows that she shows upper levels so she keeps doing it. They don’t know she’s bad and she just wants to brag at cocktail parties, maybe?

I feel like that horse really is going to get tired of the constant flailing and kicking and launch her to the moon someday. He’s a very generous animal for even being willing to do some semblance of the movements asked for. But again- the pony club kicks weren’t enough to draw blood because she doesn’t have the leg control to really connect with him. He’s hopping and kicking out mostly because her body’s in 5 different time zones at once up there and it’s too much for him.

[LockeMeadows]

Perhaps it is rider shaming, but the rider should be ashamed for what transpired. Was it abuse? This obviously generous horse felt it was. Both tests he started off kind, willing, and had a bit of sparkle that made it appear he enjoyed being in the show ring. By the middle of the tests, he was fried. Literally fried. He could not understand her mixed signals and mentally shutdown. Members armchair quarterback on COTH all the time. That is NOT what is happening on this thread. The members are seeing a horse clearly in distress and are feeling compassion for an animal that is literally screaming for help and there is nothing the show officials are doing to protect it.

[skydy]

@kellyp

Got it. Thanks. I cut and pasted what I wrote and the paragraphs disappeared in the process. I will do a better job next time. Thanks for reading it in any case.
I did read a lot of the thread but didn’t see the trainer mentioned. And I do think it is the trainer’s responsibility to fire someone who insists on showing at a level they have no business showing at. Shelley should not be riding above first level until she can properly sit the trot and has independent aids. If this hits too close to home for you, like if you get scores like this but insist in showing FEI, then the same goes for you.
Also, I did not see the Dutch article posted anywhere on this thread. It is not a video of the former owner riding, but it is a video of Shelley’s ride with Axel’s commentary and an article with a Dutch perspective on all this.
As for my political comments, I stand behind them 100%. We are a huge embarrassment in the Netherlands both with Donald Trump and now with Shelley.

Well, please, you can’t blame your immense paragraph(s) on your phone. Most everyone here is capable of communicating in an understandable manner, even on the phone.

When someone mentions to you that your posts are too painful to read ? Listen…

[Deseado]

I have seen Vorst D competing here (in Europe) with his former rider, and what can I say? It is beyond sad. Is there anyone with sufficient clout who could perhaps say something to this rider? Perhaps a judge or official? There is bad riding at every level, and we know when we sell a horse that it’s future is beyond our control, but the poor horse…Money and hubris go together.

[SashaBast]

If the horse went along like a beginner school horse floppy ears, just kinda ignoring the rider issues because it did not hurt, if all she did was flop around, I would not have cared about her riding. Just a hmmm…Nice horse.

But this guy was clearly in pain, she whipped him, and spurred him repeatedly, had reins so tight, because she cannot ride AND has anger issues. And then to read ( I could not watch the whole test) she yanked on the reins after the ride out of pure anger? This person 100% needs to be called out for horse abuse. If she uses her whip this openly in a high profile test, can you imagine what she does at home? Maybe she never rides the horse any other time than at a show.

Hopefully all of this will spark a discussion and some changes on when it is legal to ring a person out of a test for abusive riding.

[DrHB]

@skydy

[I][B]Well, please, you can’t blame your immense paragraph(s) on your phone. Most everyone here is capable of communicating in an understandable manner, even on the phone.

When someone mentions to you that your posts are too painful to read ? Listen…[/B][/I].

@skydy I have found your posts to be informative and thoughtful so this seems quite out of character.

This just seems harsh. I find a lot of posts difficult to read, for one reason, or another. Maybe mine are. Or maybe some of us struggle with reading comprehension? :winkgrin:

So if some posts are too painful, then… drum roll… don’t read them. No need to accuse… ?

[whitehouse1988]

@Samantha37

I am definitely not griping about my score. Thank you to the @Moogles for pointing out the (truth)- that it was a test of mostly 6’s, with a couple of lower marks. It is hard to see past the total score to remember to focus on the individual numbers sometimes. I thought it was fair, but seeing this ride get an 8% lower score is downright insulting, like the above poster said. And that is why I posted my video.

Im super late, but just wanted to say you had a sweet ride.

[Can_tFindMyWhip]

@see u at x

Is it possible that the trainer went to Europe and tried the horse instead of the rider herself? If so, then Diederick and his family wouldn’t have known what kind of rider they were actually selling the horse to.

I was wondering about this too, but I am inclined to think that Shelley Browning is the type to really enjoy bragging about making trips to Europe to go horse shopping. I mean, if you have the funds to buy a magnificent horse like that with such an incredible resume, why would you not clear a weekend in your schedule to go to Holland and see him first?

[J-Lu]

@kellyp

Moreover, there are people in the US and Europe and pretty much everywhere who would not sell their horse to a person who is clearly not capable of riding that horse. Not everyone will sell a horse down the road to the wrong home for a lot of $$. Not everyone horse person in Holland is just looking to make a buck off of Americans. It is very insulting to insinuate that. Moreover, I can tell you unequivocally that no horse of mine would ever be for sale to someone who rode it like that. I would rather sell the horse for half the money to a good capable feeling rider.

Realistically, people in the business at this level are inclined to sell a horse to anyone who can deliver a 6-figure money transfer. Much money was spent to “make” this horse and the others they own in their business.

[BigMama1]

@J-Lu

Realistically, people in the business at this level are inclined to sell a horse to anyone who can deliver a 6-figure money transfer. Much money was spent to “make” this horse and the others they own in their business.

This horse was likely very close to 7 figures. At the end of the day it is a business for the sellers, especially at this level, so I’m guessing the only qualifications required for the purchase are a healthy bank balance.

[TresGauche]

17 pages later and not one COTHer has dug up who this woman rides with? I am in shock. How can this be?

[ToN_Farm]

@TresGauche

17 pages later and not one COTHer has dug up who this woman rides with? I am in shock. How can this be?

Honest to goodness, how many of you people read these threads. I posted it here twice and I’m not going to do it again. It’s rude to post on a thread without reading it all. It indicates to me that you (g) think what you have to say is more important than what others say.

[TresGauche]

Well I didn’t see it LOL!! And maybe I don’t want to read your posts if you’re so grouchy and cranky

[Cowgirl]

Ok now that my outrage has been expressed and I am over it, I have a couple of solutions to this problem. Both require rule changes. First, I suggest that, absent a letter from a qualified health professional stating that you have physical limitations, all adult riders at FEI level tests must be the only rider of their horse at shows, just like at championships. I feel that if you lack the skill to warm up your own horse and get it through at FEI, then you shouldn’t show this level. (And I doubt this woman warmed up the horse herself, the test fell apart more and more as she continued to confuse the horse). Requiring that the adult rider be the sole rider of a horse showing at FEI at a show (and a loophole here might be shows that are separate shows put together where the trainer could show the horse the first day–however, that still won’t save a rider who can’t warm up their horse) might discourage people from competing at FEI if they truly are unprepared. Second, empower judges to excuse a rider if the horse or rider are apparently not fit or not marginally prepared for the level. I don’t know how you define that but I believe the FEI has such a rule and it exists in other disciplines. This rule allowed a panel of judges at a CDI (it was nearly two decades ago) I watched eliminate a very large rider on a very small arab attempting to show PSG. Not only was the little horse struggling and clearly not fit for the level, but the very large rider could not sit the trot and cleared air every stride of the extension. The judge panel eliminated them because the horse was not fit enough to handle the rigors of the test. This elimination rule would also deal with the judges who, for some odd reason, can’t use the bottom of the judging scale on a horse as nice as this, or for those who can’t give bad scores to prominent people. They could simple excuse the team for not being fit for the level.

[crthunder]

How did she get a 5.5 and 6.0 for rider position and use of aids?! (Full set of movement scores are now up on horseshowoffice.com)

that makes me sad and disappointed with judging.

everyone has bad rides but those two rides were cringeworthy on many levels

[AZ_TD]

@crthunder

How did she get a 5.5 and 6.0 for rider position and use of aids?! (Full set of movement scores are now up on horseshowoffice.com)

that makes me sad and disappointed with judging.

everyone has bad rides but those two rides were cringeworthy on many levels

She got 3 scores in 2017 over 60% on this horse. I don’t see how she could get more than a 5 for rider position and use of aids even being extremely generous.

[AZ_TD]

@Cowgirl

Ok now that my outrage has been expressed and I am over it, I have a couple of solutions to this problem. Both require rule changes. First, I suggest that, absent a letter from a qualified health professional stating that you have physical limitations, all adult riders at FEI level tests must be the only rider of their horse at shows, just like at championships. I feel that if you lack the skill to warm up your own horse and get it through at FEI, then you shouldn’t show this level. (And I doubt this woman warmed up the horse herself, the test fell apart more and more as she continued to confuse the horse). Requiring that the adult rider be the sole rider of a horse showing at FEI at a show (and a loophole here might be shows that are separate shows put together where the trainer could show the horse the first day–however, that still won’t save a rider who can’t warm up their horse) might discourage people from competing at FEI if they truly are unprepared. Second, empower judges to excuse a rider if the horse or rider are apparently not fit or not marginally prepared for the level. I don’t know how you define that but I believe the FEI has such a rule and it exists in other disciplines. This rule allowed a panel of judges at a CDI (it was nearly two decades ago) I watched eliminate a very large rider on a very small arab attempting to show PSG. Not only was the little horse struggling and clearly not fit for the level, but the very large rider could not sit the trot and cleared air every stride of the extension. The judge panel eliminated them because the horse was not fit enough to handle the rigors of the test. This elimination rule would also deal with the judges who, for some odd reason, can’t use the bottom of the judging scale on a horse as nice as this, or for those who can’t give bad scores to prominent people. They could simple excuse the team for not being fit for the level.

I think it would be easier to give a low score than eliminate, so that would not solve the problem in this situation.

[8_minute_biscuit]

I am even more dismayed to read how our sports’ professionals and judges are weighing in on Facebook. There are a significant numbers of notables–GP riders and “S” judges and even our FEI officials-- chastising people posting their disapproval as bullying this rider unfairly. I am beyond shocked. The fact is that, YES, her riding skill is less than desirable for at this level. BUT what people are rightly upset by the BLATANT ABUSE and POOR SPORTSMANSHIP. It is incorrect to “bully” the rider based on her lack of skill. That is NOT the issue. The fact that the pros and names in the sport are refusing to step up and acknowledge the abuse aspect. Color me sadly rethinking my sport . . . .