This. 100%. I’m very upset that the Friday ride earned a 51% before she was eliminated. There were some movements I couldn’t identify. A 5.5 and 6 or rider position and aids?! That’s crazy. Yes, that horse is a fabulous mover but not under that rider and definitely not on that day.
There will always be bad apples. Whether Shelly and Jane are two of them, I don’t want to speculate. However, they should both be doing a lot of introspection. So should the judges.
I did not see actual abuse (think horse wild eyed or with mouth wide open) in this video. I’ve seen far worse in Rolkur for example. The rider is just awful, plain and simple. Maybe I am missing something. But I think this horse is likely happier than some at some professional barns, especially in day-to-day training.
He is not frothing or agitated or “wound up.” He is just avoiding the noisy riding of an incompetent rider.
I also do not see “temper” or “anger” in the rider. I just see wild and ineffective attempts to ride. She applies the whip but she is not whipping, she attempts to spur, but she chooses or is unable to apply spurs abusively. Let’s not let the ugly riding shown here substitute for real abuse administered by those few who do have the skill to yank, pull, and spur with targeted vengeance.
Did you watch both rides? Abuse plain and simple…
A qualifying system, like the one they tried to adopt a few years ago, would not solve this problem. It would be very easy for most people to qualify up the levels, given the right horse and the right judge. I hope they don’t spin their wheels on this idea.
Applying the whip, in Dressage, requires you also at the same time, keep both hands on reins and quiet. If you can not do that at I2… you don’t belong there.
She removes the reins from her right hand so that she can whip the horse. Several times. That is not ‘applying the whip’ the way I learned to do it wrt applying it as an aid while riding Dressage.
She yanks the reins sharply, in effect punishing the horse in the mouth, several times, and it appears intentional as it happens after the halt, at the walk when she is not struggling to maintain her seat. Her inability to not catch his mouth when he was moving and unseating her suggests again, that her seat and her ability to independently use body parts [ie touch the horse with the whip without snatching your horses’ mouth] is not sufficient for I2.
She removes her leg, lifts it well off the flap of the saddle and kicks the horse with her spurred heel and not at a time that it could be mistaken for a leg aid. And even if it were… that’s not how you do it, and there’s a reason that’s not how you do it.
:no:
what??? you think this?
Well, only the individual marks are listed for the first test, which wasn’t nearly as bad as the second. Because most of us were so appalled with the riding, we maybe failed to see that the horse actually did some of the movements ok. Those, she got 6’s on, and that would be fair. Here are the individual movement marks for the first test.
http://results.horseshowoffice.com/Rides/MovementScores?rid=7378&oid=37
The video that is now posted ends right after the judged ride ends.
The whole video includes the rider yanking the horse’s mouth hard after the ride was done. The horse was simply walking, not misbehaving and not doing whatever the movement of a test is supposed to be (so it can be justified by saying she is asking for something), just walking. No excuse for yanking.
Oh please.
If you are watching the Friday ride, every single “aid” is being applied with targeted vengeance.
Lord knows what they did to a sensitive, winning Grand Prix horse at home to make him reach such a state of learned helplessness. If you roll a horse up in draw reins and kick and and yank and spur enough and make clear to him that there is NOTHING HE CAN DO ABOUT IT, eventually he will just shut up and take it.
A well ridden horse who is accustomed to being treated kindly would react with shock and protest at this type of riding. This is why a lot if upper level horses dont make good horses for lower level amateurs, because they are so used to precise and tactful riding that they get legitimately upset and offended at a clumsily applied aid. Well intentioned clumsiness is one thing, but every last horse I have trained (and made ammy friendly) would be standing up like the world was ending if someone laid the aids in them like that.
The fact that this horse knows by now there is no use in protesting speaks volumes. This is just how the world is now for him now, and that takes more than one bad ride to achieve.
I totally understand that a picture is just a moment in time, but… I would not train with someone like that.
And I agree with the poster that said this horse, and others in professionals barns, has probably seen even worse abuse. I’m so disgusted with horse sports. And the sad thing is that this is nothing new. example - Tennessee Walkers, they’ve been horrifically abused for years, and they still are! 
OMG, one of the judges gave her a 6 for seat and position?
Yeah, but…as a judge yourself, you know that score is based on ‘effect of the aids’ mostly and not rider position. Being that she got some satisfactory movements says her aids were effective. Right?
I actually think it does a disservice to good training and riding to assume that any or even most horses in a professional barn regularly see abusive riding. It sets up the expectation that in order to get ti the upper levels you have to accept some level of abuse in your riding and training.
However, I have been privileged to work side by side as a working student, in the program day after day, knowing every last detail of what happens with every horse, with several trainers who are able to achieve scores in the 70’s (and I think one got an 80+) at GP in Florida, more than one of whom has represented their country in the Olympics, and I can assure everyone IT IS POSSIBLE to achieve 70’s at GP on horse after horse after horse without riding the horses abusively or allowing the clients to do so. You can have a whole program where the horses are ridden kindly and non aggressively and still do way better than this lady or her trainer ever have. News flash there are trainers out there getting mid 70’s on GP horses they ride 4 out of 5 times in the snaffle, there’s your big fancy equipment list.
We should EXPECT that, first and foremost, instead of stating all the professional barns abuse the horses into results. Maybe if the clients of those barns were repeatedly made aware that this sort of riding is not necessary to achieve success at the upper levels and that there are plenty of people who can do a lot better, they would pull their horses and support the trainers that ride WELL with their money instead.
Somewhat OT but: I have a horse who is sometimes naughty/spooky during tests. Typically the rider scores (pro) will be quite good, with comments such as “tactful ride”. But at a schooling show last year my trainer got a 5.5 for her rider score; apparently the judge must have thought the rider was the cause of all the problems. Of course I teased her, and told her that when she is on the Olympic team I will let everyone know that she once got a 5.5 rider score.
Anyway, I also can’t believe that SB got a 5.5 and 6 for rider scores. WTF?
I agree 100%!
Some of the “PTB” are bringing this up again - pointing out that they “tried” to fix the system. My response - how would this fix the system? The rider would still ride the horse a zillion times at “whatever level” needed to move up - the horse would be cranked, spanked, and yanked until they found the right judge to give them the right score, and then up to the next level. Horse would still be suffering - he doesn’t care whether he’s being abused at 2nd level or at I2, all he knows is he goes out, attempts to do his job, and is punished over and over and over. Eventually the horse breaks down, and the wealthy rider goes out and buys another, and the cycle repeats.
This isn’t a system issue…
Did you look at the sales page? The part about the trainer takes great pride in matching riders with horse who are suitable for their levels and goals?
:eek:
Her aid were horrible! They were not invisible…lol! Spearing the spurs and taking her leg off her horse to do that! Hands all over the place meaning she didn’t have independent seat and hands…NOT effective aids. She should of had a 4 at best. Some movements were not even performed/or barely.
Exactly. Frankly I don’t think there is a solution for this. We can’t have judges just excusing riders because they don’t like something they see. Where is the red line.
well everybody accepts that you have to qualify for regionals… Everybody accepts that you have to get qualifying scores for medals. So why not qualifying scores for upper levels??
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
