Del Mar Live Stream

[BigMama1]

@Manni01

I don’t think the judges were poor. They had no choice. The system works like this and if they want to protect the system there is nothing else they can do…

Why system? The scoring system absolutely allows them to give 4s, 3s, even 2s and 1s if it is warranted. If the movement, or rider position or effective use of the aids were “fairly bad” they should be scored that way. That duty falls squarely on the judge’s shoulders.

[Sannois]

@Gestalt

I totally understand that a picture is just a moment in time, but… I would not train with someone like that.

And I agree with the poster that said this horse, and others in professionals barns, has probably seen even worse abuse. I’m so disgusted with horse sports. And the sad thing is that this is nothing new. example - Tennessee Walkers, they’ve been horrifically abused for years, and they still are!

Agreed! But what I think you and me and most of us are so shocked by, is THAT is not Dressage. it is the complete opposite of a harmonious partnership. And at that level, when the aides should be so refined. It is really shocking.

[Sannois]

@smoofox

Many seem to want to dump a lot of this on the trainer… without considering that sometimes the client does as they please and can be hard to manage. Not saying that is necessarily the case here, but there seems to be far too much lashing out and pointing fingers and outrage flying all over the place in what looks like a desperate attempt find one person - anyone - to blame. We had a boarder for a while who thought that she was All That when it came to Western Pleasure anything. She bought two lovely show horses, new saddles, all the latest fads in tack and sparkly shirts and perfect chaps… and rode like a hot mess. She was her own trainer - any kind-hearted or well-meaning tips and suggestions were summarily dismissed. The horses were saints - and yet began to get fussy about being constantly banged in the mouth as the WP Queen checked-checked-checked. When she had her DH haul out to a show, she would return fuming and raging about the terrible judging. I actually saw her in the ring a couple of times - horse’s tail was constantly wringing, he was trying to go BTV to avoid the jabbing and transitions were rough. People who had sold her those horses were appalled. She moved out to a bigger barn with a resident WP trainer due to a “better atmosphere” (her words) and I still wonder how those two amazing horses are doing…

The first of SB’s rides was just bad. The second one was really bad plus frustration plus lack of feel plus overreaction… I would call it a very rough, ignorant ride as opposed to simply abusive - but that does not excuse it in any way. The riding is heavy-handed, reactive BS - even my independent WTC riders at the therapeutic riding center know not to kick like that when they have a seat and legs to use and a crop in hand.

All I can say is that when I was teaching for years and took folks to shows, if any of my riders rode that way in a show they would be scratched from the rest of the show and taken home. And yes all very Novice or Training level riders. but never did I have one ride like that, or show such poor horsemanship. They would not have stayed my student for long.

[etk]

It seems like people are now being bullied into silence. Although we have produced some amazing elite athletes, this viral incident looks terrible for the general state of US dressage and wagons are being circled to try to calm things down amid international outcry. BTW, a “6” for rider in the collectives, even for the first ride? I saw nothing remotely “satisfactory” about it! We sorely need a better system to educate and ensure that competitors are competing in levels appropriate to their abilities in order to prevent horses from being subjected to such unfair riding. I hope we are able to evolve beyond “business as usual” - the horses deserve it!

[see_u_at_x]

Apologies if I somehow missed that this was already posted:

http://www.eurodressage.com/2018/01/29/eva-maria-broomer-its-outrage-social-media-and-self-reflection

[Joanne]

@8 minute biscuit

Natalie Lamping
Axel Steiner
Terri Miller Steiner
Chelsea Sibley
Dorie Vlatten Schmitz
Shannon Lee Dueck
Trenna Atkins
Jean Brinkman
Janet Foy
Alison Sader Larson
Mary Phelps
Susan Stickle
Roberta Creek Williams
Susan Jacoma
Kathy Geyer Rouse
Rebecca Rigdon
Susan Hamilton
Val McCloskey
Tracey Rowe
Sarah GEike
Cindy Ishoy
Janne Rumbough
Leonie Baker
Janine Malone
Allison Head
Cindi Rose Wylie
Lynn Randle Degour

I wonder how many of these people would sell Shelley Browning a grand prix horse if she called them up today.

[atlatl]

@Jealoushe

Sometimes for “unevenness” or “irregular gait”. Well, when your horse is tense and jiggy jogging it is of course an irregular gait. This is also at low levels.

The judge can ring them out as in disqualify them if the horse is viewed as being unsound.

Or the judge can reduce the scores in the trot movements commenting that the horse is uneven or irregular.

I can’t tell which it is that you are talking about.

[Jealoushe]

@atlatl

The judge can ring them out as in disqualify them if the horse is viewed as being unsound.

Or the judge can reduce the scores in the trot movements commenting that the horse is uneven or irregular.

I can’t tell which it is that you are talking about.

The point was it was neither. The horses were totally sound, but the judge said “irregular”. Asked if they could trot out and denied. Judge had the final call because she is also GJ. It is a case of a very tense TB in a dressage test who is behind the leg. Bopping around because they want to explode for a movement or two. It is common in eventing to see that, but some judges feel it is there right to eliminate based on that.

[Can_tFindMyWhip]

I think Jane Arrasmith has a lot of responsibility here. That horse is in good shape, so clearly he is in a program and ridden by a professional 5-ish days a week. In keeping Vorst D show-ready for Shelley, I think Arrasmith is an accomplice to the abuse we all saw on that video and should feel consequences. I don’t care if SB is the worst client ever and won’t take instruction or advice, Arrasmith is responsible for the culture in her barn, and if she cares about her image at all (never mind the horses or their welfare) she would send SB packing. She has a training barn in MALIBU. There are plenty of wealthy people to keep her business going in Malibu without Browning’s money.

There was a moment in the Friday ride, where in the middle of the test Vorst D and SB were walking past H and the horse started to jig for a few steps. SB yanked him in the face to bring him back into the walk (because an I2 rider wouldn’t have the skills to handle jigging in any other way, right?) and then 2 steps later she jabbed him in the side with her spur for NO REASON other than spite. It was cruel, it was abusive, it was poor sportsmanship and a rider with a show record going back 14 years has no excuse for pulling that crap.

[atlatl]

@Can'tFindMyWhip

I think Jane Arrasmith has a lot of responsibility here. That horse is in good shape, so clearly he is in a program and ridden by a professional 5-ish days a week.

Ah, so you’ve seen the trainer riding this horse 5-ish days a week? I agree that he appeared to be well taken care of and fit.

In keeping Vorst D show-ready for Shelley, I think Arrasmith is an accomplice to the abuse we all saw on that video and should feel consequences.

OK, vote with your wallet and don’t train with her.

I don’t care if SB is the worst client ever and won’t take instruction or advice, Arrasmith is responsible for the culture in her barn, and if she cares about her image at all (never mind the horses or their welfare) she would send SB packing. She has a training barn in MALIBU. There are plenty of wealthy people to keep her business going in Malibu without Browning’s money.

Of course, because everyone in Malibu rides dressage!

There was a moment in the Friday ride, where in the middle of the test Vorst D and SB were walking past H and the horse started to jig for a few steps. SB yanked him in the face to bring him back into the walk (because an I2 rider wouldn’t have the skills to handle jigging in any other way, right?) and then 2 steps later she jabbed him in the side with her spur for NO REASON other than spite. It was cruel, it was abusive, it was poor sportsmanship and a rider with a show record going back 14 years has no excuse for pulling that crap.

Please use your psychic powers to provide the winning Powerball numbers.

Seriously, if you want to do something, file a complaint against the rider, the trainer the judges, whomever. This wild speculation only diminishes any legitimate concerns about the poor riding.

[atlatl]

@Jealoushe

The point was it was neither. The horses were totally sound, but the judge said “irregular”. Asked if they could trot out and denied. Judge had the final call because she is also GJ. It is a case of a very tense TB in a dressage test who is behind the leg. Bopping around because they want to explode for a movement or two. It is common in eventing to see that, but some judges feel it is there right to eliminate based on that.

I think you are in Canada and I don’t know your rules, but in the US judges can, at their discretion, eliminate a horse that they view to be unsound and that decision is final and cannot be challenged. They can also eliminate a horse “bopping around” in such a fashion that they deem it to be unsafe.

If you think this particular judge is overly conservative, it sounds like you’ve found the right solution in not showing to that judge.

[emipou]

@OneGrayPony

The rider in question was abusive emipou. Downright abusive. She jabbed the horse abusively out of anger with the spurs and whipped him one handed, then coming out of the ring she jerked on his mouth. I don’t think it’s the community that is the problem.

Honestly, I wish the ride was still up.

I get why they took the video down, but I wish they hadn’t. It should be seen regardless of the “bad PR”.

But I still did not like that blog post.

ETA: Saw the updates. Watching the video now. thanks.

[emipou]

Yeah, she shouldn’t be allowed near any animals at all.

[cuatx55]

@see u at x

Apologies if I somehow missed that this was already posted:

http://www.eurodressage.com/2018/01/…elf-reflection

yes, somewhere in the three threads on this.

You lost me at the part about it just being a bad day, or something like that. No crediability anymore… because clearly we just want to bitch and moan because we are bored and don’t have anything better to do. Right. And because we are so much better than shelly. Right

[tm1]

@J-Lu

Thanks, 8 minute biscuit. Neither Natalie nor Axel are my FB friends (Axel, ugghh), but I’m thankful you noted them.

You know Axel’s wife frequents these boards, don’t you?

[Unfforgettable]

This rider has been showing for at least 14 years and has owned and showed several GP horses. :eek:

Looks like she wanted to start at upper levels and could spend the money to buy the horses. How on earth can she be this bad after all those years with a trainer? Every horse she has owned has the scores drop the longer she owns it…and it appears she’s had the same trainer for quite a few of these as well. :eek:

[tm1]

@Joanne

I wonder how many of those people on the list actually saw Friday’s ride.

I’m pretty certain that only two of the people on this list were actually in that arena on both Thursday and Friday.

[Joanne]

@tm

I’m pretty certain that only two of the people on this list were actually in that arena on both Thursday and Friday.

They could have watched the event live streamed or replay, just like many others did. You didn’t have to be in the arena.

[BigMama1]

@tm

You know Axel’s wife frequents these boards, don’t you?

Hi Terri / Mrs. Steiner

I know Axel himself has been known to weigh in here too from time to time. I wish he would but am sure he has been asked not to comment publicly. His commentary during the Friday test was spot on, as always, and extremely tactful under the circumstances.

[Scribbler]

I think it would be very inappropriate for a judge, an announcer, or a show official to be on an anonymous chat board talking about something this contentious and specific.