Del Mar Live Stream

[netg]

So at first I only saw the start of the Thursday ride (my connection kept resetting when I would try to watch. I felt it was no worse than how I’ve seen people ride in some other places - also amateurs who were not asking for critique, so I don’t want to attack them or give identifying info.

However, with the Friday ride up… I agree with Axel that it was perhaps a generous score. I don’t think judges even know how to score such a horrible ride because it’s overwhelming with how bad it is! I also suspect in the moment “oh, I can eliminate this rider for taking her hands off the reins” may not have occurred because it’s simply NOT something you expect to have happen when judging! Now more judges will be thinking about that one, though, I suspect!

I have scribed for judges who wanted to eliminate a rider, but couldn’t because there was no reason within the rules to do so. And the scores were lower than this. I was just looking at my 51% in my first rated show, and if this ride deserved a 51, that ride deserved a 70.

Most systems are not designed for the true outliers - which is what this ride was. It is not the norm for a judge to see a ride like this, nor is it the norm for a dressage rider to intentionally yank on the horse’s face and spur and whip it like that. It’s not something you’re prepared for when you have had hundreds (or thousands) of rides without such occurences. I suspect the judges were stunned, and not prepared mentally to ring a horse out because the rider was taking her hands off the reins to beat the horse. It’s also a huge outlier to have a horse of international quality who can move so well while constrained, pulled on and whipped cruelly. And who will continue on, in a rapidly worsening test, attempting valiantly to show how wonderful he is. Just a fantastic horse, and those points all belonged to him.

I have scribed for hundreds of judges, and they universally want to see horse and ride do well and be happy. I have seen a couple riders eliminated for misbehavior or soundness issues. But certainly never anything like this. I don’t always know what cumulative scores were, but I suspect I’ve also scribed some rides with rider scores of 4 given the comments from the judges during the rides, and their expressed desire to ring out really rough riders who are still within the rules. But even those are huge outliers.

[Sannois]

I do not see why some folks think the comments on the rider are bullying. 20 some years ago before social media, we would have been just as shocked standing at ringside watching a supposed experienced upper level rider displaying that poor horsemanship. People have blogged or posted that we are all just arm chair bullies. Well I think that nothing is further from the truth, just horseman who want to see the art of Dressage preserved.
Not to mention, one can see Videos of the horses former rider and see the softness and connection they both had. The only one I feel for is that lovely horse.

[Angela_Freda]

@Unfforgettable

This rider has been showing for at least 14 years and has owned and showed several GP horses. :eek:

Looks like she wanted to start at upper levels and could spend the money to buy the horses. How on earth can she be this bad after all those years with a trainer? Every horse she has owned has the scores drop the longer she owns it…and it appears she’s had the same trainer for quite a few of these as well. :eek:

Where are the previous horses today?

[tm1]

Sannois, I think the difference is the number of people involved in the pile-on. People say things on line that are far more vicious than anything that might be said in person. If you were shocked at ringside, in person, and you walked up to the individual in question, I dare say that your words would be much more moderated that what I’ve read in this thread. And even if they weren’t, you would be one person, not the thousands that sit in judgement at computers, all at once. On line, everyone’s voice and emotion is amplified and unmodulated. Hearing the combined voices of the internet is like standing next to the speakers at a rock concert in comparison… Using the collective voice is great for making changes in society. But an onslaught like this, the tribe ganging up against an individual, has been know to drive vulnerable souls to suicide.

The reaction to this incident has caused a number of adult amateurs that I know to rethink their show plans for this year… Nobody wants to be the person that this happens to next. I hate to think that it will also cause sponsors and show managers to rethink their broadcast plans, after we have lobbied so hard to be able to have competitions live streamed.

[Angela_Freda]

What pile on?

[TMares]

@tm

Sannois, I think the difference is the number of people involved in the pile-on. People say things on line that are far more vicious than anything that might be said in person. If you were shocked at ringside, in person, and you walked up to the individual in question, I dare say that your words would be much more moderated that what I’ve read in this thread. And even if they weren’t, you would be one person, not the thousands that sit in judgement at computers, all at once. On line, everyone’s voice and emotion is amplified and unmodulated. Hearing the combined voices of the internet is like standing next to the speakers at a rock concert in comparison… Using the collective voice is great for making changes in society. But an onslaught like this, the tribe ganging up against an individual, has been know to drive vulnerable souls to suicide.

The reaction to this incident has caused a number of adult amateurs that I know to rethink their show plans for this year… Nobody wants to be the person that this happens to next. I hate to think that it will also cause sponsors and show managers to rethink their broadcast plans, after we have lobbied so hard to be able to have competitions live streamed.

oh please. Those AA’s have been riding and showing and NOT showing up as OMG NOOOO for years - Don’t double barrel whomp your horse in the ribs or rip his face off and you have nothing to worry about. Oh, and do some crunches.

[Salty]

Yeah, my very first dressage test was a 48. My horse was running around like a hatrack the whole time. I was proud of her for staying in the ring, & not at all upset about the 48. If that Friday ride deserved the score given, I deserved a 60. I had floppy reins & a big grin. And the judge’s sheet told me what to do to get better.

Just saying that this is far from a “bullying pile-on” by holier-than-thou Perfect People. I agree with whoever said that this person should not be allowed around animals.

[Manni01]

@tm

Sannois, I think the difference is the number of people involved in the pile-on. People say things on line that are far more vicious than anything that might be said in person. If you were shocked at ringside, in person, and you walked up to the individual in question, I dare say that your words would be much more moderated that what I’ve read in this thread. And even if they weren’t, you would be one person, not the thousands that sit in judgement at computers, all at once. On line, everyone’s voice and emotion is amplified and unmodulated. Hearing the combined voices of the internet is like standing next to the speakers at a rock concert in comparison… Using the collective voice is great for making changes in society. But an onslaught like this, the tribe ganging up against an individual, has been know to drive vulnerable souls to suicide.

The reaction to this incident has caused a number of adult amateurs that I know to rethink their show plans for this year… Nobody wants to be the person that this happens to next. I hate to think that it will also cause sponsors and show managers to rethink their broadcast plans, after we have lobbied so hard to be able to have competitions live streamed.

Well for the adult amateurs I would recommend to buy a Soloshot. Its pretty amazing when you see yourself every day and it helps a lot… And I think if you are comfortable with what you see on the Soloshot, you will also survive a live stream. If not, maybe practice a bit more… I think its great that competitions are live streamed and I think it would be sad to give in to some internet bullies…

[tm1]

@TMares

oh please. Those AA’s have been riding and showing and NOT showing up as OMG NOOOO for years - Don’t double barrel whomp your horse in the ribs or rip his face off and you have nothing to worry about. Oh, and do some crunches.

No… the ones I’ve heard from are competent, dedicated, completely invested in doing this sport well, and could probably out-plank 99.9% of the population. And even they are worried.

[atlatl]

@tm

No… the ones I’ve heard from are competent, dedicated, completely invested in doing this sport well, and could probably out-plank 99.9% of the population. And even they are worried.

Darn, you beat me to the plank punch!

[BigMama1]

@Scribbler

I think it would be very inappropriate for a judge, an announcer, or a show official to be on an anonymous chat board talking about something this contentious and specific.

When Axel has been here before it has been under his own name, not anonymously, and in response to a rider’s post about comments he made on her test which she didn’t agree with. He posted here to clarify what he meant and cleared up the misunderstanding. All very professional. Much as I would love to hear his additional thoughts on this situation and the ripples it has made in dressage land, I’m sure he’s not going going to share them here as he wasn’t involved in the judging himself.

[meupatdoes]

@Unfforgettable

This rider has been showing for at least 14 years and has owned and showed several GP horses. :eek:

Looks like she wanted to start at upper levels and could spend the money to buy the horses. How on earth can she be this bad after all those years with a trainer? Every horse she has owned has the scores drop the longer she owns it…and it appears she’s had the same trainer for quite a few of these as well. :eek:

THANK YOU.

The one blog post wondered, “What if she’s just uneducated but receptive to instruction?” and my eyes just about rolled out of my head.

DUDE.
If spending presumably well into the 7 figures based on the horse flesh acquired and 14 years of showing STILL hasn’t taught a person who is “receptive to instruction” (oh puhleeze…) how to ride at a level above Dressage Tourettes, it’s not magically going to come together in year 15!!

This is a dead parrot!!

[JustTheTicket]

http://www.eurodressage.com/2018/01/29/eva-maria-broomer-its-outrage-social-media-and-self-reflection
Looks like people out there are becoming aware of this “discussion”. Not much there, but it shows that plenty of people are reading these boards.

[chai]

Good rider, not-so-good rider… that’s not so much the issue to me as the wanton disregard for the animal…I watched the video with a sick stomach because the issue in that ride was one of animal cruelty, pure and simple. Spurred and whipped to go forward, then cranked so viciously in the face when the poor animal tried to comply. Hands flailing with the reins in a double bridle with absolutely no consideration for the fact that they were connected to a bit combination that can be severe in the wrong hands… I haven’t been able to shake the feeling of sadness I felt for that poor animal struggling to comply and being abused throughout that ride. There was no empathy, no sympatico, just ignorance and domination. Horrible.

I scribed for a Judge many years ago, when there was a similar situation at a lower level competition. She was judging a First Level ride where the rider was stiff and nervous so she kept jabbing the horse in the mouth, causing the horse to react. When the horse reacted, the rider would get embarrassed and angry and start the cycle again. I always admired the way the judge handled that situation. She whispered to me, ‘Call the Humane Society’ but then she rang the bell, called the rider over and patiently but firmly explained why the horse was reacting in that way. After the explanation, she sent the rider back out with a word of encouragement to relax and feel the horse. To the rider’s credit, she listened, went back out and rode a much better rest of the ride. Her score was low, but that judge turned a train wreck into a positive teachable moment.

I know that’s not possible in every competition, but I really admired that judge.

[Djones]

@tm

No… the ones I’ve heard from are competent, dedicated, completely invested in doing this sport well, and could probably out-plank 99.9% of the population. And even they are worried.

How many other AAs tests were streamed from Del Mar last week?

and how many of them are we discussing this week?

[Can_tFindMyWhip]

@tm

The reaction to this incident has caused a number of adult amateurs that I know to rethink their show plans for this year… Nobody wants to be the person that this happens to next. I hate to think that it will also cause sponsors and show managers to rethink their broadcast plans, after we have lobbied so hard to be able to have competitions live streamed.

Any rider who is remotely self-aware shouldn’t be worried. This “pile-on” treatment is 100% avoidable as long as the rider doesn’t have a temper tantrum of epic proportions on a live stream. I understand that rail birds and keyboard warriors are frightening and it’s disappointing that this discussion has gone so far off that rails in some people’s eyes. This particular case is pretty exceptional, and I am sympathetic to a lot of the people who are outraged.

[tm1]

@Can'tFindMyWhip

Any rider who is remotely self-aware shouldn’t be worried. This “pile-on” treatment is 100% avoidable as long as the rider doesn’t have a temper tantrum of epic proportions on a live stream. I understand that rail birds and keyboard warriors are frightening and it’s disappointing that this discussion has gone so far off that rails in some people’s eyes. This particular case is pretty exceptional, and I am sympathetic to a lot of the people who are outraged.

I’m not saying that it’s rational. I’m saying that there are unintended and unexpected reactions.

[LE1]

Does anyone know this rider? Does she ride all horses in this manner? I have to say something is off about her lack of upper body control that lead me to think she may have been ill or something medically was not right.

I don’t think she is abusing the horse–in fact, I don’t see a ton of contact in her curb rein-the horse is btv to get behind the leg making the trot like a jack hammer and very difficult to sit.

She was eliminated for taking her hand off the rein on Friday, but I’m honestly baffled. In her Thursday free walk, she is moving ALL over the place–why? She fusses and moves and removes her hand from the reins and I’m just trying to figure out what is going on. I’ve never seen a figity rider and perhaps she was having a panic attack?

Has anyone seen her ride another horse? Compete? Do they know her? I don’t like seeing people make assumptions when it might benefit if we just ask someone who may know her or maybe ask her herself.

Coach should not be blamed–this rider may have chosen to compete despite a coach telling her not to.

[skydy]

Thanks for the reality check DrHB. I was uncivil and I apologize.

[skydy]

@LE

Does anyone know this rider? Does she ride all horses in this manner? I have to say something is off about her lack of upper body control that lead me to think she may have been ill or something medically was not right.

I don’t think she is abusing the horse–in fact, I don’t see a ton of contact in her curb rein-the horse is btv to get behind the leg making the trot like a jack hammer and very difficult to sit.

She was eliminated for taking her hand off the rein on Friday, but I’m honestly baffled. In her Thursday free walk, she is moving ALL over the place–why? She fusses and moves and removes her hand from the reins and I’m just trying to figure out what is going on. I’ve never seen a figity rider and perhaps she was having a panic attack?

Has anyone seen her ride another horse? Compete? Do they know her? I don’t like seeing people make assumptions when it might benefit if we just ask someone who may know her or maybe ask her herself.

Coach should not be blamed–this rider may have chosen to compete despite a coach telling her not to.

Coach can always refuse to work with a client that does not listen to the instructions and advice given by the trainer (that the customer has hired for that pupose). It is to me, a matter of integrity on the part of the trainer.