Del Mar Live Stream

[atlatl]

@Cowgirl

True, but it can obviously buy you protection from public embarrassment from USDF/USEF. I truly do believe that a no name person on an average horse doing what she did would have been rung out and yellow carded. Shame on the officials. No one is going to protect that poor horse at the risk of pissing off a wealthy and powerful person. It also sounded to me like Axel was admonished for his comments because he later tried to spin it as a lack of preparation. But the “ouches” he did say were real time.

i am calling for a head on a stick over this one.

I don’t know; I had to spend some time googling this person to make any connection to a “wealthy and powerful person”. I show and scribe a lot in Southern California, including the CDS Annual Show and I’d never heard of her and don’t remember ever seeing her. Nobody I’ve talked to knows who she is. I really don’t think she’s a big name in So Cal dressage, but what do I know.

My experience is that judges are reluctant to ring out anyone, not because they are afraid of pissing anyone off, but because they truly are an optimistic and hopeful bunch of people. No, it wasn’t a pretty ride, but I’ve seen a lot more abusive things get called out. Not trying to minimize the discomfort to the horse. Would you suggest eliminating a rider at 2nd level who doesn’t sit the trot well and hangs on the horse’s mouth while bouncing on its back?

I’d line up to see anyone try to admonish Axel for anything; well that and a hot dog on a stick.

[Jealoushe]

Well this was a bit worse than hanging on the mouth. She repeatedly spurred, one handed whipped, and yanked on that horse. Spurred meaning, booted with spurs. It was ugly. She should have retired.

[yaya]

@Cowgirl

True, but it can obviously buy you protection from public embarrassment from USDF/USEF. I truly do believe that a no name person on an average horse doing what she did would have been rung out and yellow carded. Shame on the officials (and they did her more public harm by letting her continue and finish—but perhaps they didn’t know it would be broadcast?) No one is going to protect that poor horse at the risk of pissing off a wealthy and powerful person. It also sounded to me like Axel was admonished for his comments because he later tried to spin it as a lack of preparation rather than abuse and claimed that, yes she was one handing the whip but wasn’t hitting him that hard. What?). But the “ouches” he did say were real time.

i am calling for a head on a stick over this one.

What kind of power would a Hollywood talent manager have over the USDF/USEF? I have never heard of this person, and had to look her up.

[Draftmare]

@Roni4444

Is it just me or did she yank the poor horse in the mouth after the final salute??!!

Yep, and whacked him pretty good again too.

[BigMama1]

@yaya

What kind of power would a Hollywood talent manager have over the USDF/USEF? I have never heard of this person, and had to look her up.

She’s an amateur and I doubt as such any of the judges / officials are afraid of annoying her…it’s more a general culture now where judges get raked over the coals for being “too harsh.” It starts at the bottom and I often hear discussions how judges should be more “encouraging” with their marks at intro and Training, not to hurt the feelings or discourage the riders just starting out. Sorry, but that’s exactly when fair and realistic scoring needs to begin so that people aren’t disillusioned about their abilities and don’t try to move up when they are lacking basics.

Whoever this rider is in her private life is irrelevant to the discussion about poor horsemanship and riding above her skill level. Her name is public and we can surmise she is ina certain income bracket due to the quality of her horse, but digging for info online and sharing it regarding her job, etc is just creepy and more than a little inappropriate.

[MissAriel]

@atlatl

My experience is that judges are reluctant to ring out anyone, not because they are afraid of pissing anyone off, but because they truly are an optimistic and hopeful bunch of people.

This. I was scribing during a ride that went inexplicably sideways mid-way through. The kind of sideways you wonder if the horse got stung by a bee or something. After sincerely lamenting the unfortunate timing, the judge said something along the lines of “lets see if they can get it back together and finish” and just as the judge was ready to ring the pair out for safety (no abuse going on) the rider retired. I have also had many judges comment on

[Draftmare]

@JLR1

No, you did worse than make a snarky comment, you publicly named this rider! I didn’t watch the video and agree that poor equitation is very, very hard to watch…but there is no need to publicly shame someone for their riding abilities! This board is pathetic in its quest to shame and pass judgements.

To me this is no different than a few weeks ago (or is it months now?) when the hunter rider came off before a jump and turned around and kicked her horse in the belly. In public. And nothing was said or done at the show until people got up in arms over it on social media and this forums.

This isn’t just a case of bad equitation. This is a case of abusive riding in the show ring surrounded by people who could have taken a stand and rung the rider out and otherwise said this is not acceptable in our sport or anywhere else via a yellow card.

[yaya]

@BigMama1

Whoever this rider is in her private life is irrelevant to the discussion about poor horsemanship and riding above her skill level. Her name is public and we can surmise she is ina certain income bracket due to the quality of her horse, but digging for info online and sharing it regarding her job, etc is just creepy and more than a little inappropriate.

I was just trying to figure out why Cowgirl twice said this person has some sort of power over the USEF/USDF. Cowgirl mentioned her job first, and since I had never heard of her, looked her up to see what connection she might have to the horse industry, especially since she’s an amateur. No creepiness intended at all.

[ToN_Farm]

@atlatl

My experience is that judges are reluctant to ring out anyone, not because they are afraid of pissing anyone off, but because they truly are an optimistic and hopeful bunch of people. No, it wasn’t a pretty ride, but I’ve seen a lot more abusive things get called out. Not trying to minimize the discomfort to the horse. Would you suggest eliminating a rider at 2nd level who doesn’t sit the trot well and hangs on the horse’s mouth while bouncing on its back?

I don’t know about ringing out in either of these cases, but I’ll bet that in both the riders never got scored less than a 4 on Rider. That’s would be wrong to do imo. I feel that when there is a bad ride, judges just give them 5’s and a few 4’s knowing they will end up last anyway. I guess they think what makes the difference if the score is 50 or 30. I don’t share their thinking. That guy you all love to hate (NP) did not have a cringe worthy ride, and his judge gave him something like a 45%. Because this was I2 and a big show, the judges were obviously more generous.

[atlatl]

@ToN Farm

I don’t know about ringing out in either of these cases, but I’ll bet that in both the riders never got scored less than a 4 on Rider. … Because this was I2 and a big show, the judges were obviously more generous.

Actually, I just saw a ride yesterday where a rider got a 3 on the Effective Use of Aids collective. One judge once told me that she may “kill a rider, but you don’t need bury them too.” Believe me when I say that the message still got across without giving below a 4 on the rider scores.

The individual movement scores were available for this show online, not with the comments, last time I looked, but I didn’t look them up for the ride under discussion.

I disagree that judges are more generous at higher levels or at big shows; in fact my experience is exactly the opposite, the scoring has been tougher. For example, walk out of a halt into trot at a small show and you may still get a 7; do it at the CDS annual show and you’re lucky if it’s higher than a 5.

[ToN_Farm]

@atlatl

I disagree that judges are more generous at higher levels or at big shows; in fact my experience is exactly the opposite, the scoring has been tougher. For example, walk out of a halt into trot at a small show and you may still get a 7; do it at the CDS annual show and you’re lucky if it’s higher than a 5.

I agree that scoring in general is tougher at big shows, but when a really bad ride occurs at those shows, they don’t ‘bury’ them.

[Scribbler]

I don’t judge horse shows but I mark a lot of college essays!

One course I teach is a required course that students need to get C plus in order to stay in their program. They can take it over if they don’t get that.

There are certainly times when I have a choice between an F and a D, or a D or a C minus, when it’s clear a student can’t write well enough yet to pass this course.

Most of the time if the student is trying at all, I go by the “don’t bury them” maxim and give them a C minus so they have to take the course again but aren’t devastated.

So I can see the rationale for the judges giving out low 50s which in a big rated show is like someone getting a D. It’s a fail. Note the rider then scratched her other classes. Message received.

I’d also add that there was probably a bit of a shock factor when this is unrolling IRL. We all have the option of watching the ride over and over on film and focussing on every bad thing. Judge gets to see this once, marks lower probably than any other ride, doesn’t have the luxury of rethinking the score the next day, etc.

One egregiously bad rider, gets a grade of D, scratches other classes. Seems like system is working OK.

As far as why people compete above their competency level, who knows. We can only hope there has been a good reality check here.

[Mondo]

I initially missed the ride (started watching live on Friday after, because a friend of mine was in the GP that day) and wading through the thread here today, my curiosity got the better of me and I clicked on the link and watched. I couldn’t get past more than 30 seconds of it. I did not watch the whole thing. If I were her trainer, I would have fired her as a client well before this competition. There is no way that woman belongs on an FEI horse, especially in competition. She. Can’t. Ride. Please don’t offer the excuse of the horse’s big gaits. She most certainly DID have time to “prepare” and yet, she wasn’t.

I agree wholeheartedly with whomever said “Axel has mellowed.” Boy, has he ever. I’ve seen (and scribed) some of his comments on tests and holy cow! He didn’t pull any punches back in the day. I guess they told him if he’s going to be an announcer, his expert opinion is welcome, his editorial comments, not so much.

My friend who rode her 2nd GP is also an amateur. Her horse was trained by an Olympian and he’s pretty fancy. She still barely sqeaked by with a 61+% I felt bad for her. She’s a better rider than that. I don’t know if she was intimidated by the venue, the livestream, or what. But she got absolutely NO passage from this normally passage machine. But what stuck with me was the difference in horsemanship. There was no spurring, whipping or otherwise trying to take it out on the horse. She finished the test (her extended trots and tempi changes were lovely) and left the arena on a long rein after giving him a pat. She knew where the problem lies.

I don’t think it’s shaming to dis the woman in the Friday I2 test. A true horsewoman would have excused herself early on. Whomever likened this ride to the hunter rider who kicked her horse in the belly - YES. Same mindset." You are an expensive toy and you will bend to my will, no matter how crappy of a rider I am." I wish there was a way to weed these people out, but there isn’t. Money talks.

[Mardi]

@Cowgirl

Wrong. The USDF/USEF has Technical Delegates can issue a yellow card for violations of USEF (national)rules at recognized national shows. Improper use of equipment would merit a yellow card.

Thank you for clarifying. The warning cards can be given out for “minor offenses only” and not for abuse or major infractions. IIRC, the poster who asked about giving the rider a YC thought it was deserved because of what she felt was abusive riding.

[Scribbler]

It’s not so much that money talks but that money lets you get into this situation. Most of us couldn’t afford the horse in the first place. Money is the prerequisite. Also we have no idea where the trainer was in all this. Maybe the owner over ruled the trainer’s advice and trainer figured owner would get set straight by the judge. Who knows.

If you have access to online show results the name of the trainer should be a matter of public record. Also the results of other clients can be searched. And linked to a barn. That might give a more clear picture.

[SendenHorse]

Her centerline scores are very low for well, everything, but they do not seem updated recently. So we can logically assume these issues appear to be systemic. I understand the %s go down as the levels are more challenging, but theses are still low. [h=5]Lifetime Median Scores[/h]

• Intermediare 2 - 58.553%
• Prix St Georges - 60.856%
• 4th - 60.866%
• 3rd - 59.826%

I hope she gets more punishment for this riding, inexcusable. I am not up on the rules so I can only hope the judges had some reason they didn't take stronger action.

[CFFarm]

They sad part to me is that the horse seemed to be going pretty well when left alone. I make a point of not commenting on people’s riding unless I can say something good, but if this was a boxing match, I think it would have been stopped.

[Cowgirl]

@Mardi

Thank you for clarifying. The warning cards can be given out for “minor offenses only” and not for abuse or major infractions. IIRC, the poster who asked about giving the rider a YC thought it was deserved because of what she felt was abusive riding.

It was abusive. But at minimum, they could yellow card her for improper use of equipment (whip, spur, bit). So many yellow cards in a year (3?) gets you a possible suspension.

i have seen a yellow card given for unclipoing a helmet while mounted to remove a headset and the coach was holding the reins; I have seen a yellow card and a hearing ordered against a rider who argued with the drug tester because she didn’t want her laminitis prone horse to be given a drug to make him urinate without consulting her vet. IMO the behavior on the tape was far worse.

The only explanation I could come up with for why this ride was rewarded with a 51 prior to elimination and not being rung out after the second one handed whipping is the woman’s wealth and prominence. This is not her first rodeo; she has had a string of nice show horses and her name, if not the horse’s (which was on the Dutch team) is known. It is the only way I can understand how they can yellow card someone for unclipping their helmet but not for whacking their horse in themouth SEVERAL times at the end of a ride.

[Scribbler]

@SendenHorse

Her centerline scores are very low for well, everything, but they do not seem updated recently. So we can logically assume these issues appear to be systemic. I understand the %s go down as the levels are more challenging, but theses are still low. [h=5]Lifetime Median Scores[/h]

• Intermediare 2 - 58.553%
• Prix St Georges - 60.856%
• 4th - 60.866%
• 3rd - 59.826%

I hope she gets more punishment for this riding, inexcusable. I am not up on the rules so I can only hope the judges had some reason they didn't take stronger action.

Are these on the same horse? From the posts above I thought this horse was new to her in the past year?

I can imagine a rider thinking they needed a much better horse to get out of a rut of straight C or C minus grades. And then getting a horse they can’t quite ride but believing you can do anything if you set your mind to it (and pay a lot).

[Cowgirl]

@Scribbler

It’s not so much that money talks but that money lets you get into this situation. Most of us couldn’t afford the horse in the first place. Money is the prerequisite. Also we have no idea where the trainer was in all this. Maybe the owner over ruled the trainer’s advice and trainer figured owner would get set straight by the judge. Who knows.

If you have access to online show results the name of the trainer should be a matter of public record. Also the results of other clients can be searched. And linked to a barn. That might give a more clear picture.

If yellow cards or sanctions were given, any coach who signed the entry form could be sanctioned too, especially if this behavior was also going on in the warmup.