[QUOTE=Blugal;7195680]
So you are arguing that Shagya Arabians, Polish Arabians, and Egyptian Arabians are not all Arabians? What are they then?[/QUOTE]
First, she said Anglo Arabians.
Second, they are not the same, as was mentioned. Shagyas and Anglos are not purebreds. Polish (and Egyptian for that matter) are purebreds.
Wikipedia is your friend on this issue, if you want more info easily.
I know she said Anglos, which was purposely misleading in order to try to make her point. I was not aware that Shagyas aren’t purebred, thanks for the info.
But all of this is beside the point, which was a side discussion of Irish Draught blood in breeding upper level event horses.
[QUOTE=Blugal;7195819]
But all of this is beside the point, which was a side discussion of Irish Draught blood in breeding upper level event horses.[/QUOTE]
A discussion which has me totally confused! All I know is that if it has Irish in the breed name, it usually is a really nice horse. Guess I’ll have to knuckle down and figure it out some day!
Back to the topic, maybe…
oldernewbie, hopefully I can help.
RID means Registered Irish Draught. A light draft horse (though evidently some posters here disagree on this definition.)
IDSH means Irish Draught Sport Horse. Usually a cross between RID and TB. Often there is more than 50% TB blood, depending on the generation of the cross.
ISH is a general catch-all. It can mean: RID/TB cross, horses that are mostly TB (or Irish TBs that weren’t registered with the Jockey Club), TB/WB crosses, RID/WB crosses, IDSH/WB crosses. In more recent times the Irish have incorporated some WB blood into some of their sport horses, notably Cavalier Royale.
However, if you were to look at the list posted earlier in this thread, there are quite a few horses listed as ISH who are simply high% TB crossed with RID. The horse that placed 2nd at Burghley, Avebury is a good example.
2nd Avebury ( ISH x TB) by Jumbo ( ISH ) x The Bairn ( TB) x Rusticaro ( TB)
He is listed as ISH x TB. So that is the first 50% TB. He is by Jumbo, whose breeding is listed as ID x TB. But if you look more closely, Jumbo’s sire Skippy’s dam is IDSH (her dam was TB).
As with many Irish horses, Jumbo’s dam line has an unknown portion. So it’s hard to say if that is TB, IDSH, ID, or “Irish farm mare of unknown breeding which very likely has some ID blood.”
Which leaves Avebury being an ISH with at least 11/16 TB.
[QUOTE=Blugal;7195819]
I know she said Anglos, which was purposely misleading in order to try to make her point. I was not aware that Shagyas aren’t purebred, thanks for the info.
But all of this is beside the point, which was a side discussion of Irish Draught blood in breeding upper level event horses.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I was trying to fool you! 
Seriously, I was actually trying to educate you, but you seem resistant to that for some strange reason…
Shagyas are a breed originally produced in Hungary from one PB desert stallion named Shagya. The Hungarian cavalry bred them with local horses till they developed a new breed (again, this was long ago…1700’s I think); many of the characteristic of Arabs, but more size, bone, etc. Today, most look more like WBs than Arabs, but they are good horses and the right one can be useful in a sporthorse breeding program.
However, there aren’t too many of them around…
The famous founder of the “R” line in warmbloods (Ramzes) was a Anglo-Arab (cross between an Arab & TB…), but his dam was a Shagya Arabian, NOT a “regular” Arabian. In fact, usually when you see “Arab” in a WB pedigree before the end of the 20th century, it is a Shagya, NOT a “modern” PB Arabian.
As for RID, please don’t take my word for it…contact some RID breeders and see what they have to say. Trust me when I say, Irish Draughts are not and were not bred to be “draft” horses like a Perch or Shire.
Here is the Wikipedia entry about them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Draught
Something mentioned I did not know is that they experimented with putting Clydesdale into the development of the breed, but stopped because it was making them coarser and with less stamina. BTW, the RID Society describes them as a “warmblooded horse”.
Traditionally, actual “draft” breeds are called “coldblooded”, so again, the RID is not put in the same category as the heavier drafts. But this is why so many Americans thought early on that if you bred a TB (hotblood) with a draft (coldblood), that’s how you got a “warmblood”. Thank goodness most of us now know that simply isn’t true.
Why bring it up? Because there is plenty of mis-information on COTH as it is…no need to add more.
Crossed with TBs, the Irish horse has produced many, many, MANY international stars in jumping and eventing. Can’t think of too many Perchs or Clydes or Shires who have done that…which is why I think the OP would be well served with an Irish stallion.
But I agree, it’s probably a moot point now, since she seems to have been scared off by folks criticizing her mare…
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7196489]
Seriously, I was actually trying to educate you, [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7196489]
please don’t take my word for it…[snip] Trust me when I say, …[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;7196489]
Here is the Wikipedia entry about them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Draught[/QUOTE]
We’ll have to agree to disagree. I prefer proper sources when I am pursuing education.
Well I don’t know where OP went but the mare looks like a delightful trooper of a mare and looks like a really neat proven safe ammie horse. I would agree not to add any more perch to her, but thoroughbred is always a safe bet with perch crosses and you will consolidate the xx genes in her so to speak. Maybe she wont get a 3* horse from her, but the only way to be guaranteed a 3* horse is to buy one already going for $$$$. But worse case, the mare looks like she would throw a useful ammie friendly horse.(hey I take one of those!)
[QUOTE=omare;7196647]
Well I don’t know where OP went but the mare looks like a delightful trooper of a mare and looks like a really neat proven safe ammie horse. I would agree not to add any more perch to her, but thoroughbred is always a safe bet with perch crosses and you will consolidate the xx genes in her so to speak. Maybe she wont get a 3* horse from her, but the only way to be guaranteed a 3* horse is to buy one already going for $$$$. But worse case, the mare looks like she would throw a useful ammie friendly horse.(hey I take one of those!)[/QUOTE]
I agree with everythjing omare said. :yes:
Very cute mare.
I too would stick to a good TB, to add height, gallop, scope and athletism.
Best of luck, OP, whatever you decide to do.
Blugal, you’ve got some of it right, but not all. Best not to argue about whether an ID is a draft or not, you just won’t win with the Irish folk. And BTW we have an ISH that’s Dutch/Selle Francais. They are breeding a whole lot of ISH in Ireland that are not Irish at all. We have another domestically bred IDSH that’s RID/ Connemara/ Trakehner. Another RID/Swedish. Go figure.
To the OP. The horse is really cute, looks a lot like a Connemara, but you don’t want more draft for UL. Go full TB.
Someone stated that percherons crosses would not make UL horses. As a side note, Bonnie Mosser’s Merloch is a percheron cross.
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