Depo-Provera added to Forbidden Substances list for USEF effective Dec 1, 2019

Listen, making a horse “more focused” or “more ready to work” or “more comfortable in his/her own skin” are most certainly behavioral effects. Drugs that affect behavior are not allowed in the show ring.

I do a lot of layups and take care of many horses who are receiving different types of behavior altering drugs so that we can complete their recovery from injury or surgery as safely and smoothly as possible. I would describe the effects of most of those behavior altering drugs exactly as people are describing depo in this thread. The horses aren’t obviously sedated, they are simply more focused on the caretakers handling them, less aggressive and reactive in turnout, less reactive to their environment, less sensitive about proximity/behavior of other horses, less distractible, etc. They are exactly, “more comfortable in their own skin.”

Frankly, I’ve never been one to point fingers and say “more training.” Many horses have personality traits or behavioral tendencies that are really difficult to train them out of. No one is evil for wanting to do things, including use medications, that make their horses more comfortable or less stressed.

But, I think that we as an industry have to make a decision: either we are going to allow the use of mind altering substances in competition horses or not. People have argued for years that the rules should allow for small doses of acepromazine. But, I can’t agree with that. First of all, competition is purely optional, no one has to compete. Secondly, equestrian competition should be a competition of the horse, the rider, the partnership, the training, etc. It should not be a contest of pharmacology. Lastly, the use of behavior altering drugs in horses is a slippery slope. What would/wouldn’t you allow and how would you choose?

FWIW, even if equestrian sport did decide to allow horses to compete on behavior altering substances, I feel sure that medroxyprogesterone wouldn’t be on the list. There are too many reports of adverse events. There are much better and safer mind altering medications horses can be given. The ONLY advantage Depo has is that it has, up until now, been show legal.

21 Likes

Given that there is NO effect of MPA on the behavior in mares, why would one even expect it to have an effect in geldings? They are already missing much of the cellular signaling apparatus needed for this hormone to work.

The funniest thing I saw was the presentation of the “pro” MPA side at the MPA committee. It was presented by a trainer/plaid horse editor. All she presented was OPINION and PERCEPTION, yet, we should expect she has better knowledge over the veterinary world?

AAEP Statement on the Use of Medroxyprogesterone Acetate in Competition Horses (2019)

Medroxyprogesterone acetate (MPA) is a synthetic progestin hormone administered to mares off-label in an attempt to suppress behavioral estrus. However, a controlled research study found that MPA was not effective at suppression of behavioral estrus. (1) Many veterinarians believe MPA modifies behavior by producing a calming effect in the horse and does not have a therapeutic benefit that goes beyond this behavior modification. Therefore, the AAEP recommends that MPA should not be administered to horses in competition.

  1. Gee EK, C DeLuca, JL Stylski, PM McCue. Efficacy of medroxyprogesterone acetate in suppression of estrus in cycling mares. J Equine Vet Sci 2009;29:140-145.
7 Likes

Which makes the idea that anyone would fund a legitimate study to assess effects in geldings laughable, at best.

2 Likes

I have friends who are very upset about this and I feel for them - but in my case with my mare we did try it- but can I be honest? I have no idea if it worked or not? I mean we also gave her as much turnout as we could a dedicated program - vet and massage therapist consults- that I’m not sure what was doing the trick and what was extra nothing - she is beautiful and so sweet and affectionate but when that switch goes off- it was pretty bad :frowning: and finally I wanted to stop it because I had heard and read some negative things and honesty again I was not sure it was working - she blew up and had her moments- almost always at home that seemed to have nothing to do with her cycle- after 3 years of showing her with a lot of success she is now doing Western and loving it!!! Like I said I feel for those who are upset but the fact it
was used on geldings just as much as on mares I think was part of what really made this an issue

4 Likes

It does not make sense to make that conflation. That was the point of my post.

I think it’s important for this conversation to be precise with language since a veritable sh!t-ton of euphemism get used to cover some thing that range from stupid to illegal, albeit violating a murky part of the D & M rules.

2 Likes

OK, I think we’re on two different tracks here… Err something. I’m not sure I’m making myself understood. So I’ll just leave it be.

Because the study doesn’t say there is no effect on BEHAVIOR in mares, it says there is no effect on BEHAVIORAL ESTRUS, which are two completely different things. Depo in women (and other mammals) affect their reproductive cycle by modifying the hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis and preventing follicular development and preventing ovulation. Thus any behavioral changes directly related to the female cycle will also be modified. This is what Depo DOES NOT do in mares. However, Depo has also been shown to react with GABA receptors in the brain. GABA receptors are completely unrelated to the estrus cycle of female mammals. Males and females have GABA receptors equally. It is believed that it is Depo’s interaction with these receptors that cause the “tranquilization” or “happy feeling” side effects of Depo. GABA is a neurotransmitter that decreases anxiety and increased levels in the brain result in calmer, happier behavior. Therefore, just because Depo has been proved to NOT effect the estrus cycle in mares, absolutely does not mean that it does not bind to and affect GABA receptors and therefore have mood altering side effects in both mares and geldings. And this is exactly why USEF is banning it. It doesn’t work for it’s “supposed” use (management of the estrus cycle) but DOES work for it’s desirable or undesirable (depending on whose side you’re on) SIDE EFFECT, which is increase in GABA production in the brain. Completely different systems being affected. USEF isn’t saying it doesn’t work for calming, they’re saying it has no therapeutic function, therefore is not allowed to be used for calming as medications that are only good for calming and nothing else have no place in the show ring.

Wow, someone with a science degree spouting no research, yet a simple Google search shows there is plenty of research on the dangers of Depo. These have been shared to Coth previously.

https://www.multinationalmonitor.org/hyper/issues/1985/02/problems-us.html

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2011/11/01/asu-researchers-link-birth-control.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12179873

1 Like

None of those articles discussed the use of depo on horses? Which, if you read my posts, you would know that is what I was asking about. But no one seems to read for comprehension??

4 Likes

Honest question here, not trying to point finger at anyone specific but really, why are most people on this forum so aggressively argumentative? Like, I get this is a controversial issue and people are passionate about it but everywhere else I’ve been reading discussions about it, be it Facebook or anywhere else, people are far more kind and much less haughty about expressing a differing opinion. Not saying this is exclusive to one side of the issue or the other as I’ve seen it from both. Just wondering.

3 Likes

I think much of it has to do with anonymity on this website vs. Facebook.

3 Likes

I thought it was longstanding tradition, myself.

7 Likes

:lol:

Regumate has been studied in male horses, so why is it so ridiculous to think maybe we should study Depo if it’s commonly prescribed to geldings? If we want to ban all behavior altering substances, why not Regumate, or Perfect Prep? (I believe the answer to that question is money in pockets of USEF and show organizers).

http://csu-cvmbs.colostate.edu/Documents/Learnstall6-Regumate-apr09.pdf

2 Likes

And if you note, the effect works where you seek suppression of testosterone (already significantly reduced in geldings), and results in reduced reproductive abilities even 90 days after removal of the hormone. Therefore the authors suggest NOT using this on performance stallions intended for breeding.

the key statement of the mode of action is:

Progestins are known to inhibit pituitary luteinizing hormone (LH) secretion; in the male, LH stimulates Leydig cells of the testes to produce the testosterone required for spermatogenesis and libido.

Geldings are MISSING testes. Ahem

3 Likes

Would it not be beneficial to reduce testosterone levels in studdish geldings? (Serious question) They of course would not have the long term reproductive side effects.

So basically, males have “female” hormone receptors in the brain (that bind estrogen and progesterone), so any exogenous sex steroid hormone given to a male will affect their neurochemistry. (In males, testosterone is converted to estrogen in the brain as well). So depo can certainly have a neuromodulatory effect in geldings. For fun, you can google depo given to male sex offenders (of the human variety) as it affects their behavior…

3 Likes

Thank you!

The vast majority of “studdish” geldings do not have significant testosterone levels.

6 Likes

So, I have used Depo before on geldings that were “studish”, “herd bound”, and just plain pain in the asses, I have also not used the drug on the same horses and IMO the mental aspect of “thinking” it is making a difference is what is key. Horsemanship is horsemanship, good or bad…the good horseman don’t need to use this, it just makes it “easier”. Banning drugs like this is just because bad
trainers have abused it (to over mount riders, easier to hire cheaper help that do not know what they are doing, “training” WAY too many horses) just as bad people have caused Safe Sport to come about (trying to police themselves and covering up awful behavior). CALL OUT THE POOR HORSEMANSHIP and BAD PEOPLE!! I can go to a show now and point out maybe 5 people at a show who know what they are doing (IMO) and maybe 2 of them will always put the horse first. It didn’t used to be like that, most of the trainers were at least horseman, some just weren’t as honest as others.