Derby

[snaffle1987]

I think part of the problem is around the final turn, War of Will went for and tried to create a hole that wasn’t there. If you watch the head on footage of them coming around the turn, you will see War of Will, turn off the rail and start coming to the right flank of Maximum Security. At that point, Maximum Security also made the same move at the same time, beginning to come off the rail. Likely due to the sea of water puddled on the rail.

The entire time, Long Range Toddy was right next to Maximum Security; as he had been along most of the back stretch. So even if Maximum Security had not moved right, War of Will was putting himself in a position to run into Long Range Toddy and run up the ass of MS. Maximum Security then shied away from something, swapped leads which took him slightly farther right; cutting off War of Will who was in the process of trying to create a hole that didn’t exist to begin with.

I have seen the still photos of the incident. They are not pretty and all are lucky to have walked away unscathed. But I will stand by my comment that if War of Will wasn’t looking for a non existent hole to plow through, even if MS moved right, he wouldn’t have endangered Long Range Toddy, bumped him, yes. War of will was running rank up on MS heels up the back stretch and into the turn and at the far turn, Gaflione let him loose with no where to go as the rest of the field in front of him hadn’t yet turned on the gas.

Gaflione didn’t protest and was never approached by officials as they had no benefit to protesting. Pratt protesting looks like a winey sore loser who knew exactly the benefit he was after and he had nothing to lose by doing so. and Court had no chance in hell at the race so I am not sure why he joined the complainers club. Toddy hates the mud and Court used up all of his gas in his tank by the top of the stretch. He didn’t finish at the bottom because he got bumped.

Not sure how these officials and jockeys and trainers expect 3 yr olds to act in an environment like that. pouring rain, standing water in tire tracks on the inside lane, the track was so muddy you could barely walk in the walkover, 150,000 screaming lunatics, screens, music, etc and a 20 horse stampede around the oval in such conditions. How do they expect these horses to be perfect the entire way around like they are machines driven by a steering wheel?

[MintHillFarm]

Watch Afleet Alex’s Preakness for 2005. Scappy T brought AA to his knees and still stayed in the Place position…Stewards did not take him down.

[Cammie]

@MintHillFarm

Watch Afleet Alex’s Preakness for 2005. Scappy T brought AA to his knees and still stayed in the Place position…Stewards did not take him down.

He wasn’t taken down because he didn’t interfere with any other horse. Afleet Alex finished ahead of Scrappy T, so there was no need to take Scrappy T down.

[charismaryllis]

@CarrotBreath

That sounds like Harley. Breyer just released a portrait model of him last year. He’s a cool horse.

Hmm, made it on the old friesian horse mold…

[snaffle1987]

@Cammie

He wasn’t taken down because he didn’t interfere with any other horse. Afleet Alex finished ahead of Scrappy T, so there was no need to take Scrappy T down.

but it was a serious safety concern. and they brought MS down over the safety aspect in regards to War of Will. not what happened to the others in that group. But if Scrappy T went on to win that race; he would’ve been DQ’d.

[jolise]

snaffle 1987
That is the best synopsis that I have heard yet and I completely agree. The photo looks bad, but WOW’s jockey put himself there by trying to push out when there was no room. Prat on Country House was doing his best to hold everyone in and not relieve the pressure, but WoW started the trouble. The jockey on WoW might have expected the lead horse to get out a little and his hole would close (ok, well he got out a lot but WoW should not have been there in the first place)
There is also a photo of Country House leaning in on the turn which didn;t help the situation.
Prat and Mott should not have filed an objection.

[Brigid]

@snaffle1987

I think part of the problem is around the final turn, War of Will went for and tried to create a hole that wasn’t there. If you watch the head on footage of them coming around the turn, you will see War of Will, turn off the rail and start coming to the right flank of Maximum Security. At that point, Maximum Security also made the same move at the same time, beginning to come off the rail. Likely due to the sea of water puddled on the rail.

The entire time, Long Range Toddy was right next to Maximum Security; as he had been along most of the back stretch. So even if Maximum Security had not moved right, War of Will was putting himself in a position to run into Long Range Toddy and run up the ass of MS. Maximum Security then shied away from something, swapped leads which took him slightly farther right; cutting off War of Will who was in the process of trying to create a hole that didn’t exist to begin with.

I have seen the still photos of the incident. They are not pretty and all are lucky to have walked away unscathed. But I will stand by my comment that if War of Will wasn’t looking for a non existent hole to plow through, even if MS moved right, he wouldn’t have endangered Long Range Toddy, bumped him, yes. War of will was running rank up on MS heels up the back stretch and into the turn and at the far turn, Gaflione let him loose with no where to go as the rest of the field in front of him hadn’t yet turned on the gas.

Gaflione didn’t protest and was never approached by officials as they had no benefit to protesting. Pratt protesting looks like a winey sore loser who knew exactly the benefit he was after and he had nothing to lose by doing so. and Court had no chance in hell at the race so I am not sure why he joined the complainers club. Toddy hates the mud and Court used up all of his gas in his tank by the top of the stretch. He didn’t finish at the bottom because he got bumped.

Not sure how these officials and jockeys and trainers expect 3 yr olds to act in an environment like that. pouring rain, standing water in tire tracks on the inside lane, the track was so muddy you could barely walk in the walkover, 150,000 screaming lunatics, screens, music, etc and a 20 horse stampede around the oval in such conditions. How do they expect these horses to be perfect the entire way around like they are machines driven by a steering wheel?

Thank you.

[Brigid]

@MintHillFarm

Watch Afleet Alex’s Preakness for 2005. Scappy T brought AA to his knees and still stayed in the Place position…Stewards did not take him down.

Well, didn’t AA win that race, IIRC? So no need to take ST’s number down, as AA still won.
Or …? Am I wrong again?

Again, I really appreciate all of you people to help educate me.
I know some racehorse things, but am mystified by other stuff.

Owned and started yearlings & retrained others riding horses (dressage-to-trail) for nearly 40 years on-and-off.

And yes: I really DO need cataract & lasik surgery. Waiting list.

[Where_sMyWhite]

@jolise

Prat and Mott should not have filed an objection.

Exactly. The stewards should have lodged an inquiry before the horses even crossed the wire to examine the bumping incident. It sounded to me as though they’d already noticed there was some issue at the head of the stretch. A steward’s inquiry would have let all the jocks/trainers as well as the betting public know that the stewards were on top of their job and examining the race and outcome to ensure all rules were appropriately applied and followed.

[Sunflower]

But the stewards did examine the race, and unanimously agreed on their action.
So…regardless of where the complaint originated… that is the outcome.
If there was no basis to the complaint, then, the result would have stood.
I am still at a loss to understand all of the belly aching that the steward’s investigation and decision has generated.

[Texarkana]

I don’t understand why there has to be “etiquette” when filing an objection because someone broke the rules.

You’re supposed to ignore unsafe practices and rule-breaking just because it didn’t affect you as much as it did someone else?

It would be one thing if it was based on circumstantial claims, but I’m sure Prat saw the whole thing go down and knew it was a valid complaint.

[Rackonteur]

@Brigid

Thank you, Texarkana. Maybe after the cataract & lasik surgery I will be able to see it. I had no one around to explain it to me.

I hear you, Brigid. I hope your surgeries will go well. I just found out that I have cataracts – wish I could get lasik surgery! Would be nice to not have to wear glasses all day every day, after 60 years of doing so!

Good luck with it.

[Brigid]

@Rackonteur

I hear you, Brigid. I hope your surgeries will go well. I just found out that I have cataracts – wish I could get lasik surgery! Would be nice to not have to wear glasses all day every day, after 60 years of doing so!

Good luck with it.

Thank you. My glasses don’t work:
Astigmatism. Floaties in my eyes . Big grey spot in right eye, when I was punched by …

[Rackonteur]

@Brigid

Thank you. My glasses don’t work:
Astigmatism. Floaties in my eyes . Big grey spot in right eye, when I was punched by …

Astigmatism. Check. Floaties. Check. Big blank/skewed spot in left eye that just appeared out of nowhere nearly 30 years ago. And now cataracts.

I think we should start our own COTH clique!

[Palm_Beach]

@charismaryllis

Hmm, made it on the old friesian horse mold…

That’s because Harley well and truly broke the mold.

[Palm_Beach]

@Where'sMyWhite

Exactly. The stewards should have lodged an inquiry before the horses even crossed the wire to examine the bumping incident. It sounded to me as though they’d already noticed there was some issue at the head of the stretch. A steward’s inquiry would have let all the jocks/trainers as well as the betting public know that the stewards were on top of their job and examining the race and outcome to ensure all rules were appropriately applied and followed.

I don’t know why people keep harping on this. The stewards review every race and either declare it official or launch an inquiry. There are multiple stewards watching multiple views. That is part of their job, with every single race. They do not have to light up the Inquiry sign while reviewing the race. One steward might say, let’s review the break or did you see something at the top of the stretch, and they can get that done within seconds, and if it was no big deal, they declare the race Official. But they don’t have to light up the Inquiry sign every time they review tape.

Also remember that it was a bit of a charge for third place, so not only do the stewards have to confirm the incident at the 5/16th, they have to determine the correct order of finish in a 19 horse field. I’m sure there are protocols in place, ie. determine the order of finish, then review any incidents in question. In fact, they have to determine the order of finish first before they can deal with an interference foul, since placings are significant.

The announcer was saying Hold All Tickets before the jocks got back, so clearly someone said something to someone. Nothing happens until the race is declared Official, and that is the job of the stewards. I’ve been there myself waiting on the race results for several minutes with no Inquiry flashing.

[caffeinated]

@Where'sMyWhite

Exactly. The stewards should have lodged an inquiry before the horses even crossed the wire to examine the bumping incident. It sounded to me as though they’d already noticed there was some issue at the head of the stretch. A steward’s inquiry would have let all the jocks/trainers as well as the betting public know that the stewards were on top of their job and examining the race and outcome to ensure all rules were appropriately applied and followed.

My understanding was that the stewards WERE inquiring/looking into it before the other complaints though (more than a normal review before making the results official). The light wasn’t lit but I’ve seen it from multiple decent sources that the outcome likely would have been the same without the other connections making complaints.

I’ve sat in the stewards booth at a small racetrack before, and they really go over these things carefully. Multiple people watching multiple angles of every part of the race. They take it incredibly seriously.

[caffeinated]

@snaffle1987

but it was a serious safety concern. and they brought MS down over the safety aspect in regards to War of Will. not what happened to the others in that group. .

Not to nit pick, but this rule, while involving safety concerns, is about the integrity of the race for the betting public. They deemed that this interfered with horses that might have hit the board, which interfered with the integrity of the race. That’s the origin of this rule and why MS was placed where he was - if it was just about War of Will he would have been placed directly behind WoW. He was placed where he was, behind Long Range Toddy, because that was the last placed of the horses his movement interfered with (and frankly of all the horses involved, he’s the one who had to check back the hardest and was arguably the most disrupted, in my view, though he held no chance of winning).

[Where_sMyWhite]

I think the point of inquiry vs objection in this case is that the public, whether betting or not, watches the tote board for the race to go official.

I know the stewards review every race and don’t necessarily lodge an inquiry every time they review something. I have seen where the inquiry sign is lit shortly after the end of the race. For the public, in this case, lighting the inquiry sign may have helped give an indication to the public that they saw something of concern without waiting for the jocks to come back.

In a “normal” race, the vast majority of viewers/bettors spot a possible infraction and know to hang without the announcer having to say to hold all tickets or seeing an inquiry or objection sign.

In this race, the vast majority of viewers/bettors probably didn’t notice the drift and subsequent stumble and if they did, didn’t realize there may be fall out from that. The inquiry may have indicated to the non-racing savvy viewers/bettors that the stewards saw something they were reviewing.

Same as most races don’t have an AAEP on-call vet to ask about on-track injuries. Don’t need one as most races the vast majority already know what’s going on. At the big televised races, AAEP is there for public education. Seems like using the inquiry sign falls into the same category… public education.

[Brigid]

@Rackonteur

Astigmatism. Check. Floaties. Check. Big blank/skewed spot in left eye that just appeared out of nowhere nearly 30 years ago. And now cataracts.

I think we should start our own COTH clique!

The Nearly-Blind-Somewhat-Crazy-Because-I-Spook-At-Lint-And-Trip-Over-Shadows clique? :winkgrin: