Designing the small, terrible horse repository

[RooTheDay]

OK, this wasn’t the plan, but when with horses is it ever the plan?

As discussed in this thread, my second mare in five years is now neuro. She can’t go into group turnout, so my options are to continue paying training board indefinitely on a horse who’s not in work or figure out how to plop her on my two acres so that I can either flush a bunch more money down the toilet on a new one or do something more useful with that money, like lottery tickets, or junk bonds, or cocaine.

The approximate two acres in question (the white spot in the upper right is my 2H GN, for size reference):

The apparent flat/open area is a big fat hill. Google Maps elevation says I have about 30 feet of total drop from the top of the property, where the house is, to the road. The curved bit at the top is a residential road that ends in a cul-de-sac. The paved area to the right is our driveway (which is too steep to get the 2H GN up, hence its residence at the bottom.)

From the tree on the left hand side to the edge of the house is fairly flat. The property also goes back a bit further into the treed area; it’s shaped like a slice of pie.

In the back, in the treed area, I have a large leaky shed with a dirt floor that’s currently used for the mower. That’ll be my hay storage. I know I need to fix the leaks. Gravel floor and pallets for the hay? Or is leaving it on the dirt OK if it’s on pallets?

For fencing, I’m thinking coated wire, because I’m trying to keep this as cheap as possible while still being fairly safe. I have a friend at my current farm who’s going to come out and give me an estimate on fencing it for pretty close to cost, but I need to decide how to fence. Should I just do the whole open area? Try to keep her off the hill? Thinking of cross-fencing with electric if I need to rotate, but all thoughts welcome.

How do we feel about the necessity of a run-in/some kind of shelter? I’ll be around to blanket her if necessary and she generally stays pretty warm regardless. (I could also potentially give her access to get under the trees, depending on how I fence.) I suppose it would keep the hay dry to have a shelter, but she stays pretty fat when not in work.

Manure management? I figure I’ll likely need to pick. Should I try to spread or make a compost heap or get a Dumpster or some other option I’m not thinking of? I can also talk to my extension agent about this and whatever other maintenance may need to be done.

I can haul out to my vet. I think I can haul out to my farrier but will confirm with him. (I’m going to pull her shoes anyway if I do this but she will still obviously need trims.) Despite being in a program at the moment, I’ve worked in a few barns, done field board self-care, and I’m pretty comfortable with both emergency and the basics of regular care. I already design my own feeding program, her work schedule, interact with the vet, deal with dentals, etc, and I was the one who noticed and dealt with it when she colicked. I will need to figure out a deworming program (something I haven’t done before), but I’ll likely base it heavily around FECs and work with my vet for the most effective options.

I am zoned for horses as a limited use. I need to chat with zoning but I think it will be a pretty straightforward process. There are a couple horses already in my neighborhood, but it’s not a high density; more residential. The main thing I need to ensure is that paddocks are at least 100 feet from neighbors’ houses, which would limit me (if I fence on the property line) to starting the paddock at the third tree down on the left-hand side. That seems fine if I’m including the hill, and I don’t see a way to do it without including the hill.

There will never be anywhere to ride. I just don’t have the space. If by some miracle she gets sound again, I can haul out to my coach’s farm 20 minutes away three days a week for lessons, take her for her hour walk hack along the roads one day a week, and haul to a local park to condition one additional day. I’m not super worried about this because one, I’m not convinced based on our track record that she will stay sound, and two, hoping to be in a position to buy an actual farm in the next couple years.

Other things I’m missing?

Finally, I could be more delighted about how and why this is happening… but I have to say, I sure do like the idea of looking outside at her big dumb sweet face every day.

Silver linings, right?

[RooTheDay]

As soon as I hit post, came up with a couple more things, so:

Water: Stock tank filled daily off our hose. We have city water. I know it will be expensive. It will still be less expensive than board.

Vacation coverage: I rarely travel; I usually do one two-week trip a year at the same time. I know a bunch of folks who I could pay to be reliable Small Terrible Horse Repository-sitters for that period, and they could also tend the cat (who does not go) at the same time.

Finally, if anyone in the Montgomery County-ish area of Maryland has a spare field just sitting around for cheap, feel free to DM me!! I can provide excellent references…

[lenapesadie]

With one horse and a hill, I’d be inclined to fence one large as possible area. Could subdivide with hot tape easily enough later if needed.

I’m a believer in run in shelters. Having a nice set up for my boys at home, it’s shocked me how much they use it. They escape bugs, the summer sun and rain in there. It gives me a place to feed hay out of the rain. For your solo horse, I’d likely want some kind of run in that I could confine horse to when a “stall” is inevitably needed. Perhaps a small dry lot / run out with the run in / tiny barn situated inside it with gate(s) to the paddock(s).

With one horse, in my area, the simplest manure disposal would be an extra trash can or two. YMMV

[4horses]

You should be just fine. I have 4 horses on 3 acres. I put up a track system, individual drylot paddocks, a barn, and several small turnout areas so I can rotationally graze. I came from an area with even less pasture (2 horses on less than 1 acre) and we’ve always made it work without resorting to stalls with no turnout.

I have a friend with 1 horse and a donkey and she keeps hers in a drylot during the day and they go out at night with the donkey in a grazing muzzle. She has a 2 stall barn with a feed room.

It’s easier then you think but you do need to have a place for hay and feed storage and at least one stall would be nice.

[clanter]

@RooTheDay

I am zoned for horses as a limited use. I need to chat with zoning but I think it will be a pretty straightforward process.

well actually it is not a straight forward process at least was not with me as the city official told us incorrect information. I strongly suggest that you get whatever they say in writing and have date stamped and signed

Also go back and read the animal control ordinance and retain a copy as a city can and often changes ordinances overtime.

Make sure it is clearly written as our city’s were not. They used wording they had no idea as to what it meant. Pony and Horse but no one there knew the differences so I took them a pony and horse and they all said the pony was the horse. (Admittedly I took a 14,1 mare with her official pony card and a 15.2 horse to the meeting, the mare was nearly always challenged when put into an open show pony class. Standing side by side she looked bigger then the 15,2 horse as she had a nearly flat back without pronounced withers. nevertheless they had no idea as how to measure an equine )

[RooTheDay]

@lenapesadie

With one horse and a hill, I’d be inclined to fence one large as possible area. Could subdivide with hot tape easily enough later if needed.

That’s helpful, thank you–what I was thinking as well after talking to a couple people.

@lenapesadie

For your solo horse, I’d likely want some kind of run in that I could confine horse to when a “stall” is inevitably needed. Perhaps a small dry lot / run out with the run in / tiny barn situated inside it with gate(s) to the paddock(s).

Due to the layout, I don’t have a great place to put this. (Suggestions welcome.) It would likely have to be on the flat part by the house, which I don’t love for a lot of reasons. Also dry lots are quite spendy. That said, I do think I will ultimately have to either hot tape or fence to create a sacrifice area if I don’t want everything to be total mud, so would probably do that at the flat part at the top.

I’d really like to get away without building anything but the fence if I can, since I already have something for hay/feed storage. I’d be keeping my tack in my trailer DR and grooming things in the garage. Obviously this isn’t great for long-term, but I really just need a bridge for a year or two.

If I absolutely had to make somewhere to lock her up in the interim, I was thinking of round pen panels. Could do it under the trees for shelter. Terrible idea?

@lenapesadie

With one horse, in my area, the simplest manure disposal would be an extra trash can or two. YMMV

… this is brilliant, especially since our household is generally pretty trash-lite and we’re not really taking full advantage of our current capacity. Sold.

@4horses

It’s easier then you think but you do need to have a place for hay and feed storage and at least one stall would be nice.

Same question as above: can I get away with “buy round pen panels in case of emergency” in the interim or do I really absolutely need to create some kind of shelter/stall situation first?

@clanter

Make sure it is clearly written as our city’s were not.

Thanks! Good advice in some instances/localities, but our ordinance is very clear and my county has a strong tradition of horsekeeping. I’ve read all the relevant bits of the code already and just need to talk to the zoning folks to start moving forward with the application; I say it should be straightforward since the use is allowed by right.

[Bluey]

Are you sure it would not make more sense to find her a boarding solution somewhere else?
Both for financial reasons and the energy it will take to make a place happen and take care of where there is none.

[clanter]

@RooTheDay

and my county has a strong tradition of horsekeeping

for now

Where I live the city was intended to have a rural lifestyle however as the surrounding population increased the ruralness has been nearly eliminated. New comers buying properties first thought is to break the larger lots into smaller lots. Now there are just a hand full of these multiple acre lots remaining.

The other problem is the ever increasing property tax as our pastures are being redefined into potential future housing lots. The acres we bought for the horses is now being valued by tax appraisal district by the square foot.

[cayuse]

I’d put a run in shed fairly close to the house an within easy viewing, Maybe a shed with a closed off side for feed storage/and care items to keep things handy. I’d fence off the back half of the “pie” which should be enough for one horse if they get hay outside. Your setup is just like mine, same acreage and pie shaped with the house at the point of the pie and when I had a big horse, that’s how my turnout was and it was adequate.

[2DogsFarm]

Agreeing w/@clanter Check Zoning!
I was grandfathered in to have 2 “large animals” on my 5ac 20yrs ago.
But somewhere in the last 10yrs zoning changed so today I’d only legally be able to have 1
That said, I have had 3 (horse, pony & mini) for the last 8yrs & nobody’s said Boo!
But subdivisions are encroaching - 2 newest less than 3mi to the North of my acreage - & that could change.
To answer your other questions:
-I’d include the hill, fencing the maximum amount.
In hindsight, I wish I’d done perimeter fencing & left maybe 1/2ac for house & gardens.
As it is, barn/indoor, drylot & pastures take up ~3ac.
-My barn acts as a run-in, horses have free access to stalls from pastures 24/7/365. They seldom use the stalls, evidenced by the lack of piles to pick from them each morning & evening.
Sometimes 1 stall is designated The Men’s Room & I’ll need to pick 3 sizes of manure from that one
But mostly they choose Out over In in all weather.
If I didn’t have a barn I’d want at least a 3-sided shelter.
-I store hay on pallets inside my barn, on a packed limestone floor. Pallets sit directly on that floor. I’m in the Midwest & Summers can get humid, but I’ve never lost a bottom bale to mold.
Every Spring I lift the pallets & rake up the fines.
-I’m lax about picking the drylot & pastures .
I do dump stall cleanings in a compost heap running alongside the indoor’s East wall & a 2nd along & behind the easement at the front of my acreage (hidden by scrub). In Fall, dumping goes into my veg garden where it morphs into great planting medium by Spring
-I used coated tensile (3 lines) topped by a Centaur-clone rail for fencing. Top line can carry a charge, but I’ve never made it hot.
If I had to do over, I might go with electrobraid, just thinking retensioning might be easier. Though doing the tensile is pretty easy.

You’re right about looking out the windows & seeing Horse!
Sadly, Id have to rotate my house 180°
Only window facing the barn & smaller pasture is in my BR, over the ensuite sink.

[GraceLikeRain]

I’d do a run in shed with a dry lot and a perimeter track. Inside the track I’d do two fields around 3/4 acre. With her plus a mini or whoever her companion will be they could have the dry lot plus track 24/7 and then a few hours on grass each day rotating fields. With one big pasture I think you’re going to end up with mud and sparse grass in short order.

For the cost of doing it right I’d imagine you could board for a really really long time.

[Libby2563]

I wouldn’t count on being able to throw manure in the trash. It’s heavy enough to be noticeable and some trash services specifically exclude animal waste. Definitely something to look into.

It seems like there’s room to explore between full training board and bringing her home, though the need for individual turnout obviously makes it tougher. Have you put the word out to your vet, farrier, trainer, and other contacts about renting a field and shelter? Driving around in MD and northern VA I feel like I see tons of unused small horse properties. Would you be able to do self-care if you rent something? Would she be happy alone and isolated?

I ask all this because I worry it might be more stressful and expensive to try to make your land work than you think, especially with that steep hill. A 30’ drop over that distance is massive. If you let her stay out on it during the winter your entire backyard will likely be mud. Then you’ll have to worry about the mud freezing into dangerous lumps. Will it be safe for her as a neuro horse to navigate that slope, especially in poor footing?

[lenapesadie]

@RooTheDay

Also dry lots are quite spendy. That said, I do think I will ultimately have to either hot tape or fence to create a sacrifice area if I don’t want everything to be total mud, so would probably do that at the flat part at the top.

I get it’s spendy! As is a shelter. Think carefully through if confining your horse to a small sacrifice area without footing is really what you want to deal with all winter. Without footing, a small sacrifice area is likely to become a muddy pit in short order in a lot of climates.

I used corral panels as stalls for years in my barn. There are safety concerns with horses getting legs under the panels and in the corner joints. Those concerns can be somewhat mitigated, but it’s something to be aware of. By the time you cover the panels with wire or invest in “safe” horse panels, you might be better off purchasing a carport shelter and DIY attaching fence boards and gates to it.

I’m no help sighting anything around a hill. I’m from the Gulf Coast, everything is flat as a pancake here

I think getting quotes and thinking through the whole project in detail before committing is wise.

[lenapesadie]

@Libby2563

I wouldn’t count on being able to throw manure in the trash. It’s heavy enough to be noticeable and some trash services specifically exclude animal waste. Definitely something to look into

For sure. My municipality will accommodate this but it’s something that needs to be investigated with OP’s local services!

[endlessclimb]

Hate to be this ass - if she’s neuro with no future, I’d euth.

[Bonnie2]

A few random thoughts from someone who lives on a steep hill. If she’s neuro, do you want her to have access to the steep hill? If your gooseneck can’t make it up, will the dumpster or hay truck make it up. If the only flat spot is near the house and she needs to be restricted to a flat spot due to weather, do you want to live with the sight and smell of a quagmire by your house. Horses can destroy what looked like a good size area in no time. Yes, she needs a shelter. If filling a stock tank with city water is expensive for you, maybe the infrastructure investment to bring her home is not a good idea. Sorry to be a wet blanket.

[RooTheDay]

Holy massive reply, Batman. Apologies in advance for the length.

@Bluey

Are you sure it would not make more sense to find her a boarding solution somewhere else?

I’m not at all sure! Hence this thread.

I will say that I am fairly confident that there are no traditional boarding situations offering individual turnout within a radius I consider reasonable (“reasonable” here defined as “one that is an improvement on the time vs. money tradeoff”) at a price that is less than I am now paying in an environment I find acceptable. Individual turnout is a hard requirement for safety reasons.

But I have absolutely not decided that this is the path forward: this thread is part of my research to determine feasibility.

@clanter

for now […] Now there are just a hand full of these multiple acre lots remaining.

This is a real problem in many places; fortunately, my county and state have taken steps to preserve open space and our agricultural heritage, which is one of the reasons I choose to live here. While there’s always tension around development, I am confident that my current residence will not have zoning issues around horses in the time horizon that matters to me, and that the hopeful future farm will ultimately be preserved by stronger instruments than zoning (e.g. ag easements) which addresses both the tax issue and the rezoning issues.

@2DogsFarm

Though doing the tensile is pretty easy.

I like easy! Any specific thoughts/gotchas on the tensile?

@GraceLikeRain

I’d do a run in shed with a dry lot and a perimeter track.

Totally agree that this is what makes sense/the correct answer, but I’m not doing a dry lot on this piece of property. I’m not going to spend that much to improve a place that will never ultimately meet my needs (riding facilities and space for more than two horses.) If there’s no way to make it work without doing a real dry lot, I’ll keep her in her current program and give up on riding/moving forward until something else changes.

@GraceLikeRain

With her plus a mini or whoever her companion will be

She will not be getting a companion. I know that this too is not ideal. I would like her to have a companion. I would like her to be able to go on group turnout. She has repeatedly proven that she cannot. (I’m not comfortable posting the details publicly but am happy to clarify in DM if anyone is curious.)

In the ideal/hopeful final [i.e. not this] case, she will share a fenceline with my other horse(s), but she is often unable to see other horses in her current situation and she copes.

@GraceLikeRain

With one big pasture I think you’re going to end up with mud and sparse grass in short order.

This is really helpful, one of my big concerns, and one of the reasons I posted (I was also hoping you specifically would weigh in.) Thank you.

@GraceLikeRain

For the cost of doing it right I’d imagine you could board for a really really long time.

Agreed here as well. To be clear, I’m not going to be doing it right and I know I’m not going to be doing it right. I’m strictly trying to determine whether it can be serviceable/workable for a year or two, rather than optimal, without spending the money to do it right. The answer may ultimately be no! That’s fine. No is a fine answer.

@Libby2563

I wouldn’t count on being able to throw manure in the trash. It’s heavy enough to be noticeable and some trash services specifically exclude animal waste. Definitely something to look into.

Good flag. We have definitely repeatedly had our service remove our can when it was full of Stuff ™ that was heavier than a can of manure (“what?” you ask? “bricks? tires?” yes and yes, among other things) and they haven’t had an issue with it, but that may change if it’s going to be a weekly thing. There’s nothing about it in our agreement, and I could always do dump runs (that’s definitely allowed) but, again, good flag.

@Libby2563

Have you put the word out to your vet, farrier, trainer, and other contacts about renting a field and shelter?

This is a good idea and worth doing.

I’ve been hesitant because it would save me a ton of time to have her at home vs. doing self-care somewhere else, and also because I have long dreamed of having a horse at home and that feels like at least one good thing that would come out of this mess. I am also somewhat skeptical that I’ll find something cheap enough that it might allow me to have another within a radius close enough to allow me to do self-care with a human property owner who, bluntly, is not completely insane. But it doesn’t hurt to ask and explore.

@Libby2563

Would you be able to do self-care if you rent something? Would she be happy alone and isolated?

Yes to self-care subject to the time issue above (and my standards for care are high enough that I think it would have to be self-care in this price range; I explored and rejected a bunch of options for my other retiree, and that was easier because she didn’t have to be on solo turnout.)

She is already pretty isolated due to the field arrangement at her current situation. She would prefer to share a fenceline with other horses. But she’s not regularly getting that now, either. My gut says that going to no horses may actually be better than the intermittent situation, but obviously if it doesn’t work then I’ll have to do something else.

@Libby2563

I ask all this because I worry it might be more stressful and expensive to try to make your land work than you think, especially with that steep hill. A 30’ drop over that distance is massive. If you let her stay out on it during the winter your entire backyard will likely be mud. Then you’ll have to worry about the mud freezing into dangerous lumps. Will it be safe for her as a neuro horse to navigate that slope, especially in poor footing?

This is the other core issue (and also, you were one of the other posters I was expressly hoping would weigh in.)

I’m very concerned about the hill, and about it turning into mud, and about her sliding her stupid mare butt all the way down it, through the fenceline, and onto the road. It is, in fact, my biggest concern about this plan. I’ve talked to some folks (whose opinions I have reason to trust/experience in this area, to be clear, not randos) who think I’m overly concerned, but I’m still not convinced that I am, and so I’m really interested in gathering additional thoughts and posted expressly in the hope of gathering such.

That’s why I explicitly included the detail about the 30’ elevation drop, and about the driveway being too steep to get the trailer up in this post, and the Google maps sat imagery. (I tried to find a helpful topo map as well but wasn’t successful in finding one that provided a good picture of what was going on.)

As I mentioned to @GraceLikeRain, the answer may be “no, this is not workable given the constraints.” That’s fine! No is a fine and helpful answer.

@lenapesadie

I used corral panels as stalls for years in my barn. There are safety concerns with horses getting legs under the panels and in the corner joints.

Yeah, I would definitely not be comfortable doing it without horse-safe wire-covered panels. Which would be expensive, but would also be something I could take with me to eventual farm–so a bit more willing to invest there. Still, I take and appreciate your point.

@endlessclimb

Hate to be this ass - if she’s neuro with no future, I’d euth.

No, I appreciate any thoughts (and you were a third poster whose input for which I was specifically hoping!) Not an ass.

That said: Been there done that, though also in the interests of full disclosure I would have kept that one as a pasture ornament if I could have kept her happy. This one still has a chance of getting better, and even if she can’t her big dumb face makes me happy and she’s not dangerous to handle like the other one was. But: I’ve had this one coming up on two years now, she’s been fully sound and in work for… about a third of that time? and this is the third year in a row she’s had Lyme and/or EPM, so that’s probably just going to be the way things are forever. (Yes, I’ve had her two years and she’s had it at least three years in a row. Yes, I bought this problem. Yes, I’m dumb.)

So I do think there’s some chance that we’re going to get past this particular incident and I’ll be able to put her back into work for some period. Based on this track record, though, I also think that she’s going to wind up being my extremely lovely animal who repeatedly and consistently stands up to work just long enough to break my heart. I’m happy to be wrong but if I’m not I would like a solution that doesn’t involve paying $2K a month for her.

@Bonnie2

If she’s neuro, do you want her to have access to the steep hill?

Nope, not really, and as I noted to @Libby2563 this is my biggest concern. Thanks to everyone who’s validating that I’m not wrong to have it.

@Bonnie2

If your gooseneck can’t make it up, will the dumpster or hay truck make it up.

Dumpster can (we’ve had some here before), but I’d be hauling hay myself. I’d likely either need to get a mule or a hand cart to move bales from truck to shed. It wouldn’t be fun either way but I’ve done it before and I can do it again.

@Bonnie2

If filling a stock tank with city water is expensive for you, maybe the infrastructure investment to bring her home is not a good idea.

Very reasonable read and point but, to be clear, I meant “expensive” in the sense of “I am aware of the cost vs. the preferable option of being on a well” vs. the sense of “the other animals will need to step up and skip meals to pay for the horse’s water.”

@Bonnie2

Sorry to be a wet blanket.

Nope, no need to apologize–people’s unvarnished thoughts on feasibility are exactly what I want here, and are largely aligning with my own concerns/thoughts. Frankly, if I hadn’t had these concerns, I likely would have tried to do this a long time ago.

[clanter]

@2DogsFarm

But subdivisions are encroaching

here the large lots are being converted in townhouse developments putting in three story townhouses, the city is looking at an increased tax base of over $100 million.

In the last two years three such developments have been approved are in various states of construction. One with 75 units backs into a close friend’s place which is just one block away from us where she keeps some of racing TBs… three story townhouses looking down on her real race horses.

[clanter]

@Libby2563

wouldn’t count on being able to throw manure in the trash. It’s heavy enough to be noticeable and some trash services specifically exclude animal waste.

here at least we are strongly encouraged to do so, all manure from the seven head is put into roller trash cans that are picked up twice a week, the trucks have mechanical arms that pick these cans up to dump. Cost is $17 per month

The landfill where this goes harvests methane gas for commercial use

[Simkie]

Is anything you’re planning on fencing in for horse access your septic field? You really don’t want horse traffic over that if so.

Also consider what space you’re going to use for farrier and vet visits. Not having space for those visits that’s out of the weather and well lit can be really challenging. Even if your plan is to haul out, shit happens and having space for them to work in case of emergency should be a consideration…especially for a neuro horse. Can she tolerate being hauled out so regularly? Are you sure that’s something you really want to sign up for?

Also think about what turning all that lawn you have into dirt and mud will do for your resale value, especially if a move on the next couple years is planned.