Did a horse die at Clinton Anderson's ranch?

[trubandloki]

I think the lady is whacked.
I would guess CA is not at fault for the death of the horse.
I think CA’s response sucks.

It is not an autopsy. It is a necropsy. Sigh.

[QUOTE=JFJ;6907577]
I don’t know how to do multiple quotes [/QUOTE]

When you are reading the posts down in the lower right hand corner is the quote option with a little plus sign next to it. If you hit that for every post you want to quote. Once you hit the Post Reply button at the top of the page (since the one at the bottom of the page is still not working 100% - you have to hit it in just the right place) all the items you wanted to quote will appear.

[kewpalace]

[QUOTE=Plainandtall;6907519]
So apparently a horse did die at Clinton’s place.[/QUOTE]Guess the lady was not as crazy as I thought, but she’s still a loony. :yes:

Sure CA has a right to be mad. But his response was poorly drafted and just shows he’s still an A$$. :lol:

[JFJ]

[QUOTE=trubandloki;6907615]

When you are reading the posts down in the lower right hand corner is the quote option with a little plus sign next to it. If you hit that for every post you want to quote. Once you hit the Post Reply button at the top of the page (since the one at the bottom of the page is still not working 100% - you have to hit it in just the right place) all the items you wanted to quote will appear.[/QUOTE]

Thanks!

[letmeride]

Excellent points, I wondered about that myself. He could have paid for the autopsy or could have used all the training fees. From what I’ve seen of the cost he charges she still would have had money left over!

I think I read somewhere that the horse was now a gelding, which makes me wonder about some of the other posts that I’ve read about Friesians as a breed being known for rupture. I can’t help but wonder if she knew he had a genetic issue and thus gelded him?

[mvp]

[QUOTE=JFJ;6907577]
I don’t know how to do multiple quotes but you read his quote wrong. He never said the horse he offered her was one he had ridden for 15 years. He said his own horse is the same basic size and he’s ridden HER for the last 15 years and no one ever said he was too big on her. He is taller then the lady he was offering the horse to so just making a comparison.[/QUOTE]

@SonnysMom;6907583

You know that was my first response. But I think he meant the horse he picked out is 14.1 H. And that horse is the same size as Mindy, who he rode for 15 years in front of crowds etc… I don’t think he wanted to give her Mindy. I think he just badly worded his letter and the horse he picked out was Mindy’s size. But I could be wrong.

You guys are right, I was wrong.

Just couldn’t read through the barrage of “sh!ts” found in CA’s response.

I can’t imagine that Friesian HO wants a pony-sized replacement. Any potential for self-servingness on CA’s side, it was a nice gesture. And perhaps a horse broke by him would be the HO’s speed— even if no one wants to say that out loud.

[Snowflake]

[QUOTE=letmeride;6907660]
I think I read somewhere that the horse was now a gelding, which makes me wonder about some of the other posts that I’ve read about Friesians as a breed being known for rupture. I can’t help but wonder if she knew he had a genetic issue and thus gelded him?[/QUOTE]

Doubtful… Cray cray peeps don’t care about stuff like oh, you know, genetic health when it has HAIR and is so SPESHUL!! This horse communicated with her telepathicly through her dreams. I’m sure he would have communicated the fact that he wanted to keep his junk.

[BansheeBreeze]

The woman has money to have a bunch of Friesians, and the money to send her horse off to training at CA’s ranch (which I’m sure is nothing short of a small fortune) but can’t afford a simple necropsy before going around badmouthing CA? He says he offered to have it done. I can’t help but wonder if she knew the horse had an issue. Possibly PO’ed that CA wasn’t more apologetic and promising a great shrine be built to her horse. Who knows.

His response was pretty awful, maybe he’s finally getting sick and tired of the types of people he’s made his living off of.

Edit: She responds to the questions on her FB page. Still seems like she is blaming CA for the incident because she keeps “warning” people that horse’s die at the ranch but then saying they can’t place blame because they don’t know how he died and don’t want to put $250 into an necropsy.

"Dear ones,
I again thank you for you kind words and many condolences at the loss of our beloved horse. I think it is such an interesting experience to have our plight become such a subject of conversation. Many questions have been raised.

1. Why did we send our Friesian to Clinton Anderson so far away?
   Our beautiful boy (who was very smart) developed a habit of bolting and, if you slipped out of the saddle, bucking. Everyone who rode him ended up being thrown eventually. We needed someone to ride through his big powerful bucking to stop this habit. We chose to send him to the CA academy training so the young students there could put some miles on him and work through his bucking habit. I know for a fact that CA was gone doing the Walk About tours. We liked CA. I have never said one bad thing about CA. I have never accused CA of anything.
2. Why didn’t we get an autopsy-necropsy done? We were told that a vet could be called in to do a necropsy. (It would not be anyone we knew) It would cost
   $250.00 for him/her to come to the farm and upwards to $3000.00 if the cause of death wasn’t obvious. We were told by Clinton that it would be hard to determine CoD because it happened so fast, he said they thought it was a heart attack or brain aneurism. The horse was dead. We did not think putting out more money on a dead horse made any sense. If it was natural cause or if it was negligence or accident, the horse was still dead. We felt positive it was not done on purpose. We did not feel we had any recourse in the matter. The horse was dead-we couldn’t bring him back.
3. Why am I telling my story on face book? If you go through the entries you will see I have been talking for many weeks. This entry caught fire. I went from 15 likes to 58 over night. And that is fine. I want people to know that when a trainer warns you that horses die in there program it is a true statement. Do not blow it off, like I did, thinking it is a scare tactic. It is not. I have heard from several people with similar stories, the same experience or worse. It breaks my heart. I looked all over on the web and on face book for one story that would have changed my mind about sending Pharaoh to CA boot camp. I came up empty handed. There were many people saying rude things about the person but no one said anything about the program.
4. I want you to know that this is an absolutely true experience and you need to know that before sending a horse to Down Under Ranch for training. If you are using “the Method” at home. that is fine and great. I am not against natural horsemanship. I am not against anything. I just want there to be one true story of someone who loved there horse very much, believed that investing in a world renown trainer was a good idea, and ended up losing the horse is a true and accurate story.
5. It is also true that CA warned me several times that horses die in his program. They are very hush hush about their training and owners are kept away. (which I hated). I have no idea what is done there. I cannot say if food and water is withheld; though we pay for boarding and full rations. I do know we were told our horse would come home thinner and possibly dinged up from the obstacle course. I imagined he was in army boot camp and that was to be expected.
6. If I can save one horse and one person from the pain and sorrow I am feeling today my efforts will be worth it. Horses die in the CA academy program. Ask Clinton yourself if you do not believe me."

[Midge]

First off, I feel sorry for her. Her horse died. No matter how whacked she seems, she must be heartbroken.

If I were CA, I don’t know that I would have thought to offer a necropsy. There would be no point. The refund seems right and the replacement horse, clearly a very nice gesture. I have no trouble understanding why she couldn’t handle her 16.2 hand horse. The 14.1 hand horse probably would have been perfect for her, but not majikal. Probably not even black.

As for CA’s response, I think it’s supposed to reflect his plain talking style. And just think, if we all think she’s coo coo and we’re taking that from her facebook page, imagine how trying it must be to actually deal with her.

[BansheeBreeze]

When somebody responded politely saying they understood her pain but it wasn’t fair to badmouth CA without knowing what actually happened, the post was immediately removed. And the plot thickens!!..

[Midge]

5. It is also true that CA warned me several times that horses die in his program. They are very hush hush about their training and owners are kept away. (which I hated). I have no idea what is done there. I cannot say if food and water is withheld; though we pay for boarding and full rations. I do know we were told our horse would come home thinner and possibly dinged up from the obstacle course. I imagined he was in army boot camp and that was to be expected.
6. If I can save one horse and one person from the pain and sorrow I am feeling today my efforts will be worth it. Horses die in the CA academy program. Ask Clinton yourself if you do not believe me."

Okay, my sympathy just walked out the door. You sent your horse for training at a place where you have no idea what they do? Where you posit that he is not being given food and water? You are a dumbass.

[rabicon]

Yes CA now sells his horses for 25k and up. Back when he first came around you could get them for about 5k but now that he is soooo famous the price has gone way up. The lowest starts at 25k usually now. He was not offering mindy to this lady. I don’t think he’d ever part with that horse. That horse has been a money maker for him and I think he really does care for that horse.

That said his response was brash but we don’t know how much crap he has heard from looney and sounds like he tried to be kind and sent flowers and offered lots of things. Even if lady didn’t want a 14.1h horse for herself she could easily sell the horse for a lot of money to other CA followers. CA is kind of brash when he talks in general at clinics so it doesn’t surprise me that he’d get ticked off and come out swinging now.

[letmeride]

[QUOTE=Snowflake;6907681]
Doubtful… Cray cray peeps don’t care about stuff like oh, you know, genetic health when it has HAIR and is so SPESHUL!! This horse communicated with her telepathicly through her dreams. I’m sure he would have communicated the fact that he wanted to keep his junk.[/QUOTE]

Haha, very true!

[trubandloki]

I have to laugh at her line about how much she loves CA and “I have never said one bad thing about CA. I have never accused CA of anything.” She then goes on to not be overly nice about him and how no one should send a horse to him because it will die.

[Nootka]

[QUOTE=microbovine;6906981]
She had one Friesian and she was going to breed him to what? A Percheron mare? No pictures of any horse being ridden. None of the horses look like they are even groomed regularly. Oh yeah, get me on the waitlist for a mutt foal from her farm. And she says she loves to grow and use herbs. I’ll bet she does…[/QUOTE]

LMAOOOO

[QUOTE=SanJacMonument;6907369]I guess some of us teach or horse verbal commands like “stand” and “back” and “Good girl”. I knew a TWH that got tangled in wire and stood like a pro while she was clipped out of a trail riding situation but she knew the word ‘stand’ and was a quiet horse to begin with.

Unfortunate incident but surely hobbling and walking away has some merit or Clinton A wouldn’t be so well respected I’m sure… Just not my cup of tea (hobbling), so to speak.[/QUOTE]

And if you are not around when the horse is stuck how exactly will verbal command work?

[UlysMom]

This whole thing just screams crazy from every rooftop.

Looking at this lady’s website, she looks to be, at best, a backyard breeder who has a couple mares of various breeds and thinks it would be ‘super cool’ to make baby horses. :encouragement: I don’t see any pedigrees, anything related to how her horses have ‘proven’ themselves in any discipline, etc.

I imagine she went and got herself a fancy shmancy low-end Fresian after watching Ladyhawke one too many times and decided she was going to improve the horse world with his get. I’m sure he was a lovely horse and in the right hands may have been something special.

And, I have major sympathy for the HO for the loss of her pet. I truly, truly do. Regardless of the owner’s mental state, the loss of the horse is tragic. BUT…if this was a natural event that caused the horse’s death, it would have occurred wherever he was, whether home on her property, in a trailer or at training. I’ve lost a horse to an aneurysm. They go quick and there is no intervention that will stop it. And mine was away at a breeding farm in Kentucky and you can darn well bet we had a necropsy done to identify her cause of death.

So, before she started throwing stones CA’s way about ‘possible’ causes of death and to ‘warn people in order to save just one other horse’, the responsible thing to do would been to have invested the money and find out why her horse died. Or, don’t say anything at all.

And, CA should not be taking PR advice from the likes of Mel Gibson. That whole tirade really was unprofessional. I understand the frustration he must be feeling. But vent to your friends, not on the internet where it will be searchable forever and possibly impact your future business. Just sayin…

[pAin_t_Misbehavin]

Why would anyone send their horse to someone for training who wanted the owners kept far away?

And why would any business person respond on the internet with such a childish unprofessional outburst? If I’d read only CA’s response and nothing else, he’d have damned himself in my book. I certainly wouldn’t send my horse to someone who demonstrates so little self-control and such poor judgment.

Takes all kinds to make a world.

[kewpalace]

[QUOTE=UlysMom;6907727]
And, CA should not be taking PR advice from the likes of Mel Gibson.[/QUOTE]THANK YOU … now I need a new keyboard … :lol:

[Timex]

Plenty of people who camp and pack with thier horses use hobbles. It’s far from the worst practice we’ve discussed here.

[netg]

Well, at least CA confirmed for us that the horse existed… I was ready to believe it didn’t exist at all, or if it did most certainly that it passing wasn’t likely anyone’s fault. After that tirade, I now do believe he’s an ass. Mel Gibson’s advice on PR was a great observation!

Horses do die sometimes, no matter what happens. If you’re sending problem horses who aren’t in shape and they’re going to be worked through their problems (not necessarily worked to exhaustion - I have no idea if that’s his method, but know it is for some NH folks) I could see rate of death being even higher than normal… But this horse sounds as if he wasn’t even working at the time - certainly not a reason to make me question CA for that.

As for not wanting owners around - I think we’ve seen enough horror stories on these boards to know better! When I decided to get outside help and send my horse to a trainer he went to the one who required that I be there and work with him to learn what he wanted me to do with my horse, rather than one who wanted me to stay away!

[twadwis]

Quote Originally Posted by Plainandtall View Post
So apparently a horse did die at Clinton’s place.

I know of another horse that ‘died’ as the result of training at CA’s.

The story was the gelding is “not going to be safe as a riding horse for the owner”…they could ride it at the center but it was unpredictable.

This horse was already started by the owner but quick and spooky (disclosed to CA) thus was sent off for the training.
The horse spent the first month with a CA ‘associate’ who couldn’t get him bridled and then got him so cinch sore he was laid up for another month.
Then another month goes by and Clinton still isn’t working the horse himself but promises to get him going.
Now three months are past and the horse is not ready, horse is not safe and CA doesn’t want her to take the horse home …suggests putting it down…the bill is now past $3000 and he finally offers to pay for euthanasia. No refunds, no replacement and not much of I’m sorry.
The owner raised this horse, handled it herself, it was not aggressive, just reactive. I own it’s sire who is same way, cannot be forced or pushed or you will have a major fight, yet he is now 16 years old and I (at 71) am driving him after years under saddle.
The original poster may be goofy but much of her story is probably accurate.
If I sent a horse out for training and found that it was hobbled and left unattended I would be livid. An older experienced ranch horse sure but at a high dollar facility you hobble a Frisian and walk away, bad idea.