Ok, that’s fine and dandy. I realize there is a place on usdf.org to get to the score checks.
I just wanted to be sure and clarify that it was the score check that most people are not fans of/do not like/find confusing…instead of the USDF home page. I do not find the score checks difficult to navigate at all but find the USDF home page to be a pain.
I would be willing to make an alternative to centerline scores, but the problem is I don’t think the USDF publicly displays show records past last year on their website anymore. Yes, I know you can use USDF Scores to look up older records, but A) Harvesting that data is definitely against their terms of service because you have to be a member to see it, and B) You can’t look up show records, you have to do it by rider or horse, so I’d have to just randomly try horse/rider names and I still wouldn’t grab all the data.
Their ‘Calendar and Results’ section of the site shows results for every recognized show. Centerline was probably going through this to get the data they needed since it is available publicly for free. As far as I know, that only goes back as far as last season. If anyone can find any place else on their site that has older show records, I’d be interested to know (Not USDFScores).
Centerline made an announcement on their Facebook page that they are coming back online.
I like CS and they’ve been accurate with my data, but I’m also fine with the USDF scores page. My only complaint is having to log in, which is fine on my computer where the password is saved, but I can never remember it on my phone and so CS has been good if I wanted to look something up quick.
The USDF website, however, is a nightmare. I remember entering my first recognized show two years ago and it being unnecessarily complicated just to find the upcoming competitions page, and then sitting at my dining room table with five thousand pieces of paper and a checkbook because there were no online entries. It’s still been hit or miss as to what shows are doing online entries and with which program; I’ve mostly used horseshowoffice, which is easy enough to navigate, but still makes you basically write a paper check and input the check info. I’m so used to doing things with credit/debit card that it seems a bit clunky.
Who would pay up to $100 a month for Centerline Scores? Or more accurately, for a polo shirt, since that’s the only thing extra you’d get over the other levels.
Guess I’ll stick to the USDFScores site, now that I’m used to it.
And if you think the main USDF website is bad, the new USEF website is a nightmare, almost useless!
Oh YAY! I find their website so much easier to navigate, and so much more useful then USDFScores. I haven’t found any errors in C-line yet with scores of people I know, unless it is an error that came from the USDF database. I’ll admit, I found their rating system kind of useless, but overall, their database was done in a much more user-friendly, common sense way.
There is some history with them - someone else brought it up too. They DID approach USDF many years ago and offer to work with them to create a user-friendly data-base. Back then, USDF only allowed us to look up our horses current year results. If you wanted a multi-year report, you had to PAY FOR IT. Does anyone remember the days of paying for a life-time score check? Then C-line came online, and USDF had to compete with them - basically, competition from another source forced USDF to step up to the plate and create their own system. However, they refused to work with C-line, and did it on their own.
I hope C-line comes back online. For non-members, it is THE source, and for many of us members, it is the preferred source because it is easier and more efficient to use.
I can tell you what I don’t like about it - setting up is a PITA! It takes me about 10 minutes to fill out a paper entry - then I just photocopy it and use it all year long. It takes hours to do the initial set up each year for EE. I have to scan and upload - signature cards, vet records, etc. Because I have a GMO membership requirement, I have to upload that too - and EE has issues with those GMO memberships - I usually have to re-upload it a half dozen times before it takes - and it forces me to re-enter info each time. So I hate the system. It has been like this since the early days.
It also only supports certain browsers - so it forces the user to upload a different browser in some cases. Which is ridiculous. If you are serving an entire population -expand your platform! That is a pet peeve of mine.
I’m with you on this ^^
I’ve noticed a big difference between people while working some Knowledge Management (KM) stuff at work; some of us are navigators, others are searchers.
I am the former; I prefer to know where the “stuff” is and then just go there or have access to links on homepages. This in and of itself pretty much renders the USEF site painful for me to use.
Others are OK searching for everything; I get annoyed by numerous hits that simply are NOT what I’m looking for. Coming up with the best search criteria is tricky too. For example, I was looking for the latest standings for the developing horse program. It’s not “standings” it’s “rankings” that USEF uses so not including that specific word results in many useless hits which tells me that the search engine is somewhat weak.
I’ve had problems with files uploading in the past. But the actual digitization was a snap, but that’s probably because I already scan and keep PDF copies of my coggins & EHV paperwork anyway, and just print as needed. All I had to do was actually get them to upload to EE. I didn’t have a problem with that this year, but for some reason I always had problems with extra stuff, like copies of the test I need to submit for my freestyle, or TIP information. I’d rather fight with it than do paper entries; I’m at the point now where if I can’t enter online, I’m not entering at all.
As someone mentioned above, I find Centerline easier simply because I don’t have to log in. That’s fine at home, where I have passwords saved, but at work where I can’t save information like that, it’s harder if I want to check something quickly. The scorecheck part, however, is the one decent part of the USDF website. I’m immensely annoyed by how difficult it is to find information, or be redirected to the member guide, which is a multi-page scanned thing that’s terrible to try to look through.
I would be willing to kick in something for an annual access, but not $60, which is what the lowest $5/month equates to, much less $1200/year to get access plus a polo shirt and some other giveaways. I get that the folks managing CL are doing it on their own, but I suspect they won’t get many people signing up for more than the $5/month rate if that. They might do better with a $20/year plan.
The lowest price is NOT $60. You can also choose $1 per month, which most of us can afford.
I’d like to jump in here with some comments and opinions. I’ve been the co-owner of Fox Village since 1996. I will have to admit I am very impressed with Centerline’s page. But, I sort of scratched my head because that even though they call it “public” data. It’s NOT their data. They didn’t collect, compile or own the systems in which that data originated. They couldn’t do what they do without riding on the coat tails of those of us actually working on collecting the data. They scraped it.
And that data is only as good as the last “scrape” of whatever data source (USDF, Fox Village, etc.). Fox Village displays scores that are 100% submitted by show management, as a way to quickly, timely & easily post results for their competitors, so you don’t have to wait for it to get to USDFscores.com. Not every show manager has the same level of tech savviness (is that a word? LOL) so some can do it better than others.
If scores are wrong it’s because show management pushed up an incorrect score. Any beef with incorrect scores goes back to the show secretary. So check your scores and make sure they’re right before you leave that show. USDF is the OFFICIAL score manager, not CS or Fox Village.
Lastly, we’d NEVER charge people to look at the show results. That show office fee, yea, that’s where you’re paying for it. Yes, we have google ads, cause things like servers, domain names, software cost money…but living with the ads is just part of the deal.
For $3 a month you can be a USDF education member and get access to all their videos, their magazine, and scores.
But from what I can see they will be bringing Centerline back for everyone, just a matter of the Patreon being there for people that want to help them keep it going/pay for it more than just ad revenue. But to be honest using someone else’s data to make money doesn’t sit well with me. I get being frustrated that you have to be a member to look up scores, but sometimes stuff isn’t free and someone else stealing it and making it free then later coming back and asking for money… I dunno it reminds me what Dressage Hub did.
Thank you, I love your product.
I liked the aggregation at CS - averages, high and low scores - all of it quickly and in a layout that was in columns and searchable via levels, riders, horses and more, plus as much history as was on file. I could stay on the page, slice and dice. I could type in ’ mf’ (<space> mf)., and see all horses that retained the farm in their name, and not every name in the database with ‘mf’ in the name.
USDF does have a legal responsibility for current data. I understand. But for my purposes, it does not come close to the easy bird’s eye view in CS. What USDF should have done was bought them out, improved on it and offered it. It added a lot to my enjoyment of the sport.
Bingo!
I am another fan of Fox Village! Very useful, and has made dressage much more “user friendly”. OMG, I can still remember the days when we had to CALL the show secretary on the night that ride times would be ready. And sometimes you would call over and over and over because they were on the phone talking to one of the other people who was calling for the same reason… LOVE that we can now quickly look up our ride time, and at the same time, check out who else is in our class. LOVE that I can check how my friends are doing at a show. When I applied to run the L Program - I was able to go back and see how many Training, First, and Second level Test 3s were at various shows (to make sure the show had a history of being big enough for an L Exam, or D1 and D2). I can’t tell you how useful Fox Village is in SO MANY ways…
But - I don’t think Centerline is doing anything wrong - once data is published, it is open to “mining” for other uses - so while it isn’t C-line’s data, it was published by USDF, made available to all USDF members, so if C-line uses it in a data base, they aren’t doing anything wrong. I actually appreciate that C-line forced USDF to take a look at members desire to access this info. Back in the days, we had to PAY for a lifetime horse results report (even for our own horses!).
These days, MANY organizations “scrape” data (or mine it, whatever you want to call it). There are companies whose entire purpose is mining and organizing data. And many of them DO turn around and sell that data (which wasn’t theirs to start with).
It is a whole new world we live in… And to be honest, the laws have not kept up with the technology advances. Which makes it all even more complicated…
Ok…USEF and USDF…Are you listening??? Your websites are horrible. You have members willing to help fix it for FREE. Do something about it! Take them up on it!
This! I think some you guys are missing what Patreon is for … they aren’t talking about putting Centerline as we know it behind a pay wall. They’re asking the those in the community who can help to help out. Not saying “we need you to pay for basic access” Doing so gets you perks, such that they are.
It says right on their philosophy section “you should never have to pay to access the public results (scores) of a public sporting event (the show), and we are still committed to that philosophy.”
So if you don’t value the service enough to throw some change at it, don’t. But, as a techie, I can tell you a good large database & decent web site isn’t cheap to built or maintain. Centerline built a much more intuitive system than that monstrosity USDF uses, which really does look like something I built in 1996. So I’ll be chucking some money towards their bills.
I assume you don’t use a cell phone, access the internet, have a cable television account, subscribe to any magazines or newspapers, or ever order an item online. Your presence here suggests otherwise.
from the days of handwritten mailing lists, your information has been bought and sold to the highest bidder. I’m sure always without your knowledge and probably many times without the knowledge of the business that collected it.
For me this one is a bit more Robin Hood. Until USDF starts giving me anything for my $$$ annual competing membership, I am GLAD someone is scraping their data and making it readable. Lord knows that they don’t do much else for me.
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