Not in the way you are taking butterflies. I have always raised and trained my own riding horses, so the only butterflies I may get come from those few first rides when I back them for the very first time-- because you never know 
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That’s a fantastic idea. Thank you!
The seller said he hasn’t been worked in ages and is just out of shape and lazy. Considering what I do know about her and her care of her horses, it would be hard to believe that they just looked over something painful. But you can never be too careful.
Also, I’m combing through all these comments but for those of you asking why I’m going back— I left my spurs there by accident. And it’s an hour away. So I may as well see him again anyway =)
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Thank you all for responding and for your insight. It really helps provide some perspective!
Also, I said it above but in case anyone missed it-- I left my spurs with the horse from the other day. And he’s only an hour away. So I’m bringing 2 knowledgeable friends, one who just went through a whole ordeal doing surgery and rehabbing her OTTB’s back due to kissing spine, to get some opinions on if we think there’s a back issue, if he’s just lazy/out of shape, or whatever else. I’ll keep ya’ll posted.
And to the person who asked what I do like about this horse-- He had such a fun personality. Seemed smart, calm. We hacked in a field which I’m always too nervous to do, and he was cool as a cucumber to pop over some little jumps. And his trot was so comfy. He just seemed like a big puppy dog that would be down to just have some fun with his little adult ammy (me) if it goes that way. Nothing at all phases him. I started with little 1/4 inch spurs on and they told me after I started that they think he got broken out by a tough cowboy with big spurs, so he doesn’t take kindly to them. That’s fine by me (which is how I left them there. I took them off and tried to keep riding), but I’m not sure if I started on the wrong foot with him bc of the spurs or if that was a true and accurate depiction of this horse at all times. But even last year he competed at a dressage show with only like 4 weeks of work put into him and he did great. So I think he has the ability to move forward and be quite nice.
So huge red flags.
Why was he let sit? Why wasn’t he given a refresher for a few weeks to get the stiffness out? Why are they selling him right off the field?
Horses do not typically present as unsound because they have had a year off in a field. They may be bouncy herd bound or forget their manners but they don’t come in back sore and swapping leads. Horses in a field tend to get more sound not less with constant motion.
He’s been out of work and presenting as unsound and the sellers choose not to tune him up before putting him on the market?
Run away. Now. Do not buy a problem the owners are offloading. Check out the thread about My Very Nervous First Horse which ends in a diagnosis of kissing spines.
They think he was broken by a cowboy? They don’t know? This suggests unknown provenance. Was he a rescue or auction horse or is this a sales barn? All red flags.
Sure he has a nice personality. He may be too sore to move out. He may be on pain meds or s calming “supplement.”
Do not buy this horse.
Edited to add: I went back and looked at your post history to remind myself of who you were. I see that you briefly owned and sold a TB that ended up with back pain. Are you repeating past mistakes with this current prospect?
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The horse is owned by an older mom who never has time to ride and has ridden him like 2x in the last few months. Even when she does ride, it’s just a little bit of trot then she just walks around. She lets him dictate what they do. Those are great questions though–I’m not sure why they wouldn’t tune him up/spend time on him for a while before selling.
I"m sorry if this is a stupid question–is swapping behind and not liking leg an immediate sign of being unsound?
I certainly don’t want to repeat past mistakes. Thanks for your input.
Swapping behind absolutely is a sign of unsoundness. Can’t recall if it’s stifle or hocks or lower back
A sound horse at liberty may do one of several things. A true flying change turning directions. Or stay on the same lead counter canter. Or change in front but not behind. Very unlikely to swap behind just for fun. They mostly like staying balanced in a true canter.
A horse learning lead changes under saddle may swap in front only or may swap in front then behind late. But they don’t swap behind in that learning process and not on the straight certainly.
It’s absolutely a red flag.
As is being pissy about the leg. Either horse can’t go faster or is in discomfort from the pressure of the leg.
You’ve defined yourself previously as a nervous returning rider back in lessons about 3 years. This is prime time to make a huge horse buying mistake. Do you not have a trainer in the loop?
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Lots of similar discussion on COTH
Thank you for confirming this for me.
I did like him, but I’m letting him go based off the opinion of you all, a little nagging feeling within myself, my trainer, and a friend who works in horse rehab and saw the videos and went “unsound”.
So I appreciate you all!
Yes—I do have a trainer. She’s not with me for every horse though. If there’s one I get excited about, she’ll come with me for the second ride and we talk through the videos I get before I see them. So she’s in the loop.
I do want to get back to the topic at hand, though, which was about butterflies. To be clear—I do not have butterflies with this horse, and like someone else said, the one who I did get butterflies with was the bone chip one I posted about last month. Just wasn’t sure if that was a reality feeling for most people or not.
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I am one who knows PDQ if a horse is going to be the right one for me. I don’t have a type per se, but there are specific overarching qualities and a certain feel that I want in all of my horses. My last two broke horses I purchased I tried on the same day. One was a 16.3hh big bodied Trakhener with heaps of miles and experience. 14 years old, been there, done that, wrote the playbook type. The trainer thought I was trying to gracefully bow out of the trial when I told her I saw/felt everything I needed to after about 10 minutes. I made the appointment for his vetting right there and then to show her I was serious. I bought him 2 days later.
The second one was advertised as a 17hh 5 year old Hanoverian with about a year under saddle. I showed up to find an 18.2++ hh Hanoverian with the spatial awareness of a 2 year old because he was so damned big! His breeder (who is now a very dear friend) did an incredible job starting him, but he was so big and gangly and growing so quickly that his proprioception was almost non-existent. I got on anyway because I loved his build and personality. I knew I’d found something out of this world that I would look forward to riding everyday within about 2 seconds of picking up the trot. He came home the following Saturday!
I developed the relationship I have now with these two horses over the past 1.5 years, but having owned/leased as many horses as I’ve had the privilege, I know what I like VERY quickly!
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Looking at horses for ourselves and others we know what we need and want and don’t.
It is annoying to drive a few or many miles to look at horses that are not as described.
Is hard to then disengage when we get there and horse is clearly not what we are after and say not quite what we are looking for and leave within minutes, not even having seen horse close up, much less ridden it, without giving offense.
One of the worst was driving 7 hours and the 14.2 hands old man gentle horse was, we had measuring stick with us, 15.3 hands, gangly and standing there fretting and jiggy tied to the fence nickering anxiously, definitely not what we needed.
Lady kept insisting “he was not very big”, when we measured him she said she had ridden him two years ago in a parade and he seemed little next to the draft team she rode by and then tried to sell us a smaller crippled horse. 
There are horses you feel they will work right away, others clearly won’t.
As they say, " you have to kiss several frogs for every prince you find.
The last horse I bought was super perfect, guess that years of looking at horses fine tunes your eye.
Then I was very sick and an elderly friend’s DH had a serious heart attack and needed quickly a horse to check cattle for him while he recuperated, borrowed him, fell in love and of course is hers to love now. 
For both my horses, I felt safe on them right away in the sense that I didn’t think either would ever intentionally hurt me. The “magic” moment took a bit, until we had enough experiences for both of us to realize, at the same moment, “I know you, I’ve got you, so now we can both have fun.”
I will add that I don’t think I’d have had those moments as quickly with either horse were it not for a good trainer (by which I mean, she had phenomenal skills and experience, but she also “got” me and my horses). So, for me (and I am the type/level of rider who will always need lessons), even the perfect horse would still have me running to a good trainer.
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Do not buy a horse unless the horse is already doing the work you will want him to do.
Do not buy a horse unless the horse is already doing the work you will want him to do.
Do not buy a horse unless the horse is already doing the work you will want him to do.
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Yes, with my mare, because it was the first time anyone ever sat on her. Our bond grew through months of time together. I thought she was sweet and pretty, but I bought her as a project. At this point I don’t think I could emotionally handle selling her, and I don’t think she could settle with a new rider. Seeing her makes me feel warm and fuzzy. I guess that’s love?
With my gelding, I bought him off a video in Spain via an acquaintance. Between her stellar reputation and his athleticism, talent and excellent vetting,I was very confident in the purchase. I wanted something that was quality, and that was what I got.
It took me a year to actually like riding him. At one point I was ready to sell him to whoever walked down the driveway. I actually told my coach I hated riding him, because at that time I did. She told me to walk it off and go on a trail ride. That helped. He’s sweet, but kind of annoying, and training a baby is hard work. it’s getting better, but I guess this is what an arranged marriage might feel like 
. I will say that two years in, I like him a lot better. We’ve gotten to know each other, and he’s gotten easier and more enjoyable to ride with more training. Funny how that works.
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Honestly? The first time I sat on my current horse I thought he was a bit of a slug. He could do all the movements but was not at all forward or uphill, and his canter felt like sitting on top of a washing machine.
I had just suddenly and unexpectedly lost my heart horse - a lovely aged schoolmaster who was nicer in terms of quality, training, and willingness than any horse I’d ever ridden before, let alone imagine I’d own.
So no, my current horse did not give me any of the “feels” when I rode him. He was kind of…boring and it took me a long time to stop comparing him to my mare. But I knew looking in his eyes that he was the sweetest, kindest old soul of a horse and I was right. My trainer made him more fun to ride and he’s a delightful schoolmaster now. Safe and forward and fun, but very clear about what I’m doing right and wrong, which makes him a great teacher.
What really makes him special for me and why I chose him is that he’s utterly, completely reliable. I have a pretty significant anxiety disorder that can really mess with my enjoyment of riding; with this horse that’s never an issue. However building that confidence and trust took more than a year to solidify.
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I bought a drop-dead gorgeous mare that gave me butterflies just to look at her. I did due diligence with trainer, PPE, trail rides, jumped a course etc and thought I’d died and gone to heaven. About 3-4 weeks later she came to pieces and was unsafe to ride. Months of let down time, restarted, diagnostics and the consensus was that she had more than a screw loose, and had probably been drugged at the dealers. Subsequent info from someone who had known her in the past confirmed this.
Next horse was a pretty well unhandled 3 year old. She was well started by my trainer with lots of ground work and good basics. I was the second person on her back, trainer ponied us around the field and I sure as hell had butterflies from nerves! That was many years ago, she’s my heart horse and now I get butterflies from joy.
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This made me chuckle because by that rule, I would not have owned any of my horses (1 Morgan shows reject, 3 OTTBS straight off the track) or my free lease horses (1 very messed up, tense Tb, and my current one, ex show Morgan, young, sensitive, very confused as to what her job is, but getting better and tons of fun!)
The Morgan ended up being my best horse, game for anything I threw at her and really bonded to me.
The Ottbs, I figured I would see what they liked doing and we’d do that. Be it eventing, dressage, hunter paces, or just trail riding.
That said - If I tried a horse that didn’t accept the leg and seemed to have soundness issues as the OP’s post suggest, I would pass.
As for butterflies, I certainly got them the 1st time I rode the OTTBs, but mostly because I didn’t know how the rides would go hahaha.
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Not butterflies but my gut told me this was the horse. DH and I went to look at him after dark, I rode him down the driveway, asked for a halt, turned around went back and said he’s sold. My insides were telling me he was the one. Never regretted a day of his 21 years of my ownership, he willingly carried me hundreds of miles in the mountains and never let me down. I miss him today as much as I did when I laid him to rest 6 or 7 years ago.
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I appreciate you all. Don’t worry. I thought I said it but maybe not. I did pass on that horse. And now I’m excited to post an update.
…after 6 months of looking, 15-20 horses tried…I’m doing a ppe on a horse I had that calm, knowing feeling with. I feel so at peace and am so glad I trusted myself. My trainer is on board, my husband is on board, and everyone involved thinks she’s it. Fingers crossed for nothing too jarring during the ppe. But gosh, I am so. So. Excited. 
🥹
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Aw nuts. Some rough findings at the PPE have me passing. Bummer.
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