Hi, this mare has a really dipped back and we aren’t scoring well at the breed inspection because of it. Is there anything I can do to fill it out or is this just her confirmation and there isn’t anything to do to change it? She’ll be 6 this year and is a friesian. She is overweight. She’s ridden 1st level dressage 4 X week. Would front shoes help, uphill work? Any ideas would be appreciated. TIA.
I feel like your photo likely doesn’t do her justice. It’s a bit distorted and maybe unflattering.
Nevertheless I would suggest things that make her use her ab muscles and raise her back. In hand lateral work working up to shoulders in inhand, on circle and straight, and then half pass (different bend) and even backing up.
Many people riding first level dressage are not doing lateral work under saddle yet, but as you progress with the in hand work you can start it all under saddle at the walk.
I would also really check her head posture and get her to stretch to the bit and go low which can raise the back. Hugh headed horses can go around in a false carriage that looks pretty and “dressagey” but is all wrong, more a swan neck contracted and a related dropping of back and withers. Instead of stretching out and down to the bit.
Looking at the photo, I think I see built up muscle on her neck above the shoulder blade. That can be a tell tale sign of going in false carriage.
BTW love the mare face photo bomb in the background!!!
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I think what you see is what you get. Part of it is that her hind leg is very long compared to her front leg and she is built downhill because of that. Maybe front shoes will give the illusion of a longer front leg. I have never looked that closely at Friesian conformation so I don’t know how she compares to the average mare.
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She looks to have the conformation of the lower quality (and I mean no offense!) Friesians - a long “sausage” mid-section. That’s why she’s scoring low on a breed inspection.
Is she as butt-high as the pic makes her look, even with the distortion?
She 100% needs even closer attention to long, slow, careful, work, self-carriage
Shoes will only help if they make her more confident using her body properly.
When you say you ride her 1st Level - are you showing at that level? Working with a trainer? Or are you going through the movements on your own?
For a proper conformation critique, the camera lens needs to be mid-barrel vertically, and in the girth area horizontally, standing far enough away to not cause distortion that way. Far away, zoom in, that gives the best perspective
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Still not a good side on confirmation photo.
But you can see the way a super high neck works to make the back dip (just like a teen H/j rider sticking out their butt. Try to get her stretching to the bit and lowering her head.
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If you can get a normal relax pose conformation shot, that would be best. This very high artificial head position with the chin tucked in drops the back.
But my guess still is that she is naturally the “sausage” body type, which has a weaker longer back, making long slow correct work that much more important than normal 
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Long, low, and slow! Very much the Friesian/light draft look there. Hill work will help, but I would say going down as much as up. I would not use shoes to artificially change anything, that would just lead to trouble down the road.
My two cents? I think collection and working on a frame is a bad idea for a horse of this type. They have all of that front end muscle. You need to build the hind end. So hills on a loose rein, I think!
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Yeah I would say this is where OP needs to start. I wouldn’t even bother with in-hand work until the horse has been taught to lower the head and neck, stretch over it’s back, relax the muscles under the neck, and engage their core/abdomen. In-hand work in this inverted frame will do you absolutely no favors and will not help.
And a first level dressage horse should absolutely be doing lateral work - surely they still have leg yields in first level in the US?
My guess - having owned a friesian myself - is that this first level horse is going with her neck “round” but yet her topline totally inverted. Stretch, stretch, then stretch some more. This may be her conformation but there is lots of room for improvement. Dressage (correct dressage) is the physical therapy this horse needs!
I would start with Simon Cocozza’s book about exercises for your horse’s core so you can better understand the posture she needs. Hillary Clayton also has great core exercises but I would recommend Simon’s dynamic (i.e., ridden) approach for a horse like this that has some training but needs more topline and stretch.
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the entire point of working towards collection is to move more and more weight onto the hind end. But collection is many years off for a horse only working with 1st Level movements. That doesn’t mean the goal still isn’t to teach engagement (a hind end thing) so the horse isn’t on the forehand
Less about do/don’t do in-hand work, and more about what’s being done, just as with riding.
In-hand work is invaluable to teach a horse good body carriage without also having to balance a rider in the process
1st level showing movements include leg yield, and even outside of that the horse needs to be working on other lateral movement work as part of working on straightening. It’s just at lower levels and more for affecting other work, than the movement itself.
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I think that’s kind of my point - in-hand work in and of itself is not going to fix anything unless the handler knows what problem #1 is (which is the posture) and fixes it. If you don’t fix the posture, you’re only strengthening the disfunction
I guess it really depends what the handler/rider finds easier. It took me a lot longer to learn how to properly work a horse in-hand than from the saddle, presumably because no one ever taught me how to work a horse in hand, while I have had years of riding lessons under my belt. In the tack, I have my legs and seat in addition to the hands and voice. From the ground, I’m trying to control all the body parts with my hands, posture, and voice, which I find much harder. Once I realized that I had to teach the horse how to be worked in-hand, things got easier, but I don’t think it’s obvious to most people unless they’ve had explicit instruction (or maybe I’m just extra dense? Anything’s possible 
). I guess if OP finds in-hand work easier than riding, then yes, definitely start there! But with proper posture 
But I totally agree if you can teach the horse how to move correctly without having to also balance a human, you can cover a lot of ground!
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I should have written that better! I’d encourage stretching and hind impulsion. I’m willing to bet that it would be all too easy for it end up in a false frame with an even more hollowed back and trailing hind end.
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Having dealt with this alot over the years, I will share that groundwork- I prefer long lining on a large circle, long and low, and cavaletti= lots and lots of them- will help. It is going to take a minimum of six months to re-shape your horse. I remember being told that when I started many years ago, and I was aghasted. But, it is correct, and 12 months out, you’ll see a different horse.
You can do the work under saddle, but I find that taking the rider off makes the work go better, and is far more effective.
Good luck!
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Amy Skinner writes a lot about posture and how to improve it. She has a Patreon and posts regularly on Facebook. See if her free content appeals to you and then decide if you want to subscribe to get access to more.
Brent Graef (one of Amy’s mentors) is another good one for this, he does have some DVDs available but also see if he has a clinic in your area.
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Hmm. I find inhand really easy, but it’s true that in order to do correct inhand dressage work your horse must have the basics of ground work. Needs to have eyes on you, not run you over, lead w t h on a loose lead line, back and move haunches on a very light cue and not be frantic.
Our inhand work includes stretching down to the bit and lateral flexions too. My mare is no Friesian but is unusually high headed for her type and we spent a lot of time stretching to the bit on the ground and under saddle before we moved to collection. She is short backed but was still making herself inverted and I think sore in the hind end running around with her head in the air.
About people not doing lateral work at first level, that’s an observation. My coach has us doing lateral work inhand on green horses and shoulder in at the walk as well as leg yield very early. It provides an excellent foundation. Other dressage riders I see just wait until they “need” shoulder in trot for second level tests, and muscle the horse into that with no preparation.
Also I’ve seen over and over the Friesian or Friesian cross with the natural high head being ridden inverted and in false carriage and everyone thinking he has natural dressage talent because he has the head carriage.
This can happen to all the higher headed horses like Iberians and Arabians but at least those have some natural cattiness and balance.
The Friesian is not in general built to collect, so could really benefit I think by remedial work. Reaching to the bit and raising the back and stepping under will help activate the muscles and posture that later on will allow the horse to use it’s naturally high head carriage as part of true collection, not inverted and on the forehand.
Agreed! Ridden or in-hand, the rider or handler needs to know what they’re doing, or be in a lesson to learn to know what to do.
I agree that in-hand work takes some education that’s different from ridden work, BUT, if the bigger picture isn’t known, then neither works. The concepts are all the same - soften front to back, so the horse can work back to front.
100% it’s SO easy to think the hind end is working well if you’re just focusing on where the head and neck are.
I don’t know how they can skip all that when baby lateral work is a foundation of helping straighten and balance, and the LY is a movement in a L1 test
They either have no coach, or a bad one. SI should be incorporated a lot earlier as straightening work, even if it’s not a movement in a test.
Yep, those are the ones who need basic Dressage training the most. Heck, just dressage, doesn’t have to be Dressage. Lots and lots and LOTS of people equate raised head and tucked face as evidence of 'collection" 
100% agree. The sporthorse types, over the carriage types, are better built for collection.
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@JB oh I totally agree with you on the need for lateral work as a foundation. I’m just reporting what I see around me, teaching to the test. It’s why I don’t train with those people and try hard not to watch too much because it makes my eyes hurt. But I think it’s common enough around here. I don’t see anyone not in my program doing walk lateral to any extent beyond a wifty leg yield.
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We restarted a DHH that had been driven and ridden saddle seat. He was very afraid of one’s hands. We wound up lunging him for quite a while in a chambon (not tight) to help him understand he could lower and reach out w his neck. He stood just like this horse does. Now he’s a very nice lower level dressage horse and his owner has fun w him.
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Friesians are kind of known for this conformation. It doesn’t really affect anything, but yes sometimes it’s scored lower.
As others said, long and low work. Also walking up hills.
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Thanks for all your replies. Does anyone think that an equiband would help? Or uphill treadmill sessions? She is ridden long and low with her trainer. And she does do lateral work. Opinions on shoes-front or a full set or barefoot?
