Is anyone else not totally disappointed with our Olympic eventing performance ? I was personally quite shocked at the lack of performance.
I think we need to seriously rethink the horses we select and also need to rethink and re-address the fundamentals. 23 faults and a refusal in the showjumping round is an example and unacceptable in my opinion. I won’t even discuss the dressage.
It is of my opinion that we need better horses and we need much better training and preparation.
From Mike Pollard:
This just was not our week. Everything that could go wrong did, but once again I think we need to be honest with ourselves. Even if everything would have gone perfectly it would have been difficult to even catch bronze. In contrast, much of the german team had performances that were a bit subpar for them. Talking with David O’conner after show jumping, I mentioned this, and he made the point that you must be able to win at 80 percent of your best. anything less and you are dependent on luck. This is where the winning teams are in relation to us at the moment.
There are always ebbs and flows in this sport with the strength of nations, but this has to serve as a wake up call. It is one thing if you are on gold medal pace and unfortunate circumstances work against you(Australia), but it is an entirely different thing if even your absolute best won’t win a medal. What we need to do now is rebuild our program for results in 8-10 years. That isn’t giving up on championships that come sooner, but instead shifting focus to the longterm. We have for many years neglected young rider, developing rider, breeding, and young horse programs. Meanwhile we have spent large amounts of money on combinations that, while successful, did not and could not translate that success to new horses and/or the instruction of younger generations. If we do not shift our assets to a longterm strategy we will be constantly trying to catch up.
I thought it was a funny anecdote that the German team did a five horse dressage drill on their first day warmup. It was a talking point amongst the other nations, but it is interesting that they weren’t working on the basics or test preparation. They had already done that in January…they were so prepared for the competition they had time to learn a team drill to scare the hell out of the rest and show how united they are. Wish I would have thought of that!
We are not dealing with a gap in talent, horses, or money overall, but rather, with the proper deployment of the assets we have. The teams that won this week had a difference in experience and training that was clear to any trained eye. These wins were not accidents or even personal bests. They were the results of excellent basics, preparation, and partnerships.
We will return to this level, but don’t be fooled, the gap is large and the top risers on the other teams are young. To have any chance at a better showing in Rio w must start today. Better weeks are ahead!
Thank you to all of the owners and support staff that made the week possible. And I would like to congratulate the organizing committee for putting on the most exciting three day event i have ever had the pleasure to watch.
Though I am not sure the jumping performance is that much telling; I saw one horse knock basically every.single.rail down.
In my opinion, as a professionnal armchair coach, some of those horses might have been simply tired, not so much untalented. That factor would have more to do with preparation.
Just sayin’.
There are a couple threads about this (the Olympic performance, our team selection/UL eventing scene in general) on the Eventing board.
While I believe that many of those horses were imported, what sort of breeding improvements are you proposing? It would be interesting to get a breeder’s take on things.
It is of my opinion that the horses were not good enough and neither were the riders. They were absolutely scoped out over the showjumping and this wasn’t due to being tired. The dressage was clearly lacking as well with both horse and riders.
In my opinion the US Team was absolutely complacent in their preparations and training and it was magnified to the fullest in London.
It has to start with the riders and we have to change our culture. I don’t buy this “we had a bad week crap”. The effort before London was clearly not put forth.
The other countries (especially Germany) win with preparation. I saw it in the Nations Cup back in March in Wellington. They showed up with their 3rd string German team and promptly spanked our ass. Their horses were incredibly broke on the flat thus making it a simply canter , canter jump class. they won with ease.
I hope not , but I’m mighty afraid we are going to see something similar to the eventing disaster this coming week.
Responding to Beam Me Up’s comments: Two of the team riders and the team coach were also imports, which, while they may be talented, doesn’t add alot to the feel of a truly U.S. team. Also, I’ve long noted that the most consistently winning pairings are those rare long-term pairings between horse and rider - Kim and Winsome Adante, John Williams and Carrick, Amy Tryon and Poggio II, Gina Miles and McKinlaigh, etc. - where there is a lot of mutual trust and knowledge. Those pairings can beat the rest of the world. Just putting well-known and obviously talented riders on up and coming horses may not make it on the international stage, in my opinion.
Diane Halpin & Laurel Leaf Hanoverians: Facebook
We imported horses and riders. None of the horses were bred on US soil, and two of the riders have competed for other teams!
It’s not a matter of not having the right pieces, because we went out and “bought” all the right pieces. It just goes to show that correct management of assets and resources is vital. If the leadership fails, there is no way a team can carry on without it.
We MUST support our sport horse breeders, and the folks who produce the young sport horses. It’s 2012! We’ve got access to the same semen they have in Europe, and our mare pool is catching up as well, but no one buys eventing prospects in the US - so people are not incented to breed the prospects. Six weeks ago I heard an upper level rider complaining that there are no 2* horses to be bought in the US. You have to go to Europe to get one. That’s because we’re not producing them here… Or the ones that COULD do the job end up sold off earlier as H/J or straight dressage prospects. We have some amazing talent in this country, but many of our top riders are sitting at home for want of a good horse right now.
Meanwhile the YEH and FEH programs are an absolute joke, doing nothing to 1)attract breeders who are really producing the upper level horses and 2)effectively identify the true FEI level talent.
The other thing is we’re not supporting our up and coming riders. We’ve been putting all of our eggs into the same basket for years now. I have no desire to show any disrespect for the venerable riders of the past, but we’re not always going to be able to keep them going, and importing riders from Australia just feels a little wrong…
[QUOTE=JWB;6476132]
We imported horses and riders. None of the horses were bred on US soil, and two of the riders have competed for other teams!
It’s not a matter of not having the right pieces, because we went out and “bought” all the right pieces. It just goes to show that correct management of assets and resources is vital. If the leadership fails, there is no way a team can carry on without it.
We MUST support our sport horse breeders, and the folks who produce the young sport horses. It’s 2012! We’ve got access to the same semen they have in Europe, and our mare pool is catching up as well, but no one buys eventing prospects in the US - so people are not incented to breed the prospects. Six weeks ago I heard an upper level rider complaining that there are no 2* horses to be bought in the US. You have to go to Europe to get one. That’s because we’re not producing them here… Or the ones that COULD do the job end up sold off earlier as H/J or straight dressage prospects. We have some amazing talent in this country, but many of our top riders are sitting at home for want of a good horse right now.
Meanwhile the YEH and FEH programs are an absolute joke, doing nothing to 1)attract breeders who are really producing the upper level horses and 2)effectively identify the true FEI level talent.
The other thing is we’re not supporting our up and coming riders. We’ve been putting all of our eggs into the same basket for years now. I have no desire to show any disrespect for the venerable riders of the past, but we’re not always going to be able to keep them going, and importing riders from Australia just feels a little wrong…[/QUOTE]
No…we obviously didn’t “buy” the right pieces. Even if we bought the best piece in the world , you still have to mange it right and not become complacent.
Anyone with half a horsemanship eye saw the lack of preparation in horse and rider. I’m as patriotic as anyone but I was fuming at my representatives in London !
[QUOTE=JWB;6476132]
Six weeks ago I heard an upper level rider complaining that there are no 2* horses to be bought in the US. You have to go to Europe to get one. [/QUOTE]
Maybe a made point and shoot 2*…there are tonnes to be found! Maybe not super easy rides, but they are there. Maybe the problem is most people want easy easy rides.
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;6476168]
No…we obviously didn’t “buy” the right pieces. Even if we bought the best piece in the world , you still have to mange it right and not become complacent.
Anyone with half a horsemanship eye saw the lack of preparation in horse and rider. I’m as patriotic as anyone but I was fuming at my representatives in London ![/QUOTE]
That was my point…
Mr. M was on a previous gold medal winning team. In our hands, he wasn’t worth the investment. PD was a member of the 2000 gold medal team for Australia. So we’ve got a horse and a rider from previous gold medal teams, and we’ve got nothing. It’s not the raw talent that we lack. We are wasting what we have, or not using it effectively. We’ve been looking for shortcuts instead of dealing with the long rebuilding process that we need to focus on.
[QUOTE=JWB;6476302]
That was my point…
Mr. M was on a previous gold medal winning team. In our hands, he wasn’t worth the investment. PD was a member of the 2000 gold medal team for Australia. So we’ve got a horse and a rider from previous gold medal teams, and we’ve got nothing. It’s not the raw talent that we lack. We are wasting what we have, or not using it effectively. We’ve been looking for shortcuts instead of dealing with the long rebuilding process that we need to focus on.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. I think PD had 23 faults with a refusal in stadium. Unacceptable ! Whatever we paid , it was too much.
We need to have a little more pride and home grown culture. After all , we have the best training ground in the world !
I’m Canadian. I don’t even want to talk about it. I think I’ll go mix a Gin and Juice …
Obviously , we can’t produce our own. Nobody wants to take the time to develop and ride a baby. Eventing breeding is a labor of love, that’s for sure
Ok, I’ll stir the pot since I’m having some wine … we need …
MORE THOROUGHBREDS!!!
JMHO!
PennyG
Or perhaps, we as breeders of sporthorses, need to INVEST in our young riders AND our horses! We’ve made the decision to try and support a young, talented rider and send our young and talented stallion to her. We’re definitely not rich and it’s taking investment and commitment from everyone in order to try to make it happen. But we believe in the rider’s talent and we believe in the horse’s talent. I think until we as breeders are willing to make some sacrifices to get OUR homebreds between the legs of some of OUR riders, we will continue to be disappointed.
We don’t need to go abroad for riders OR horses. We just need to believe in what we have HERE and make a few sacrifices along the way to pair them up. JMHO.
John and Ellen Williams lived at our farm during the time he rode on the U.S. team rent-free in exchange for a bit of upkeep. He and Peter Green kept a gallop well-turfed up the pastures to nearly the top of the Blue Ridge Mts. - all of the eventers used it as a conditioning/interval training track and just left a small check whenever they came over. We did redo the historic farm, then sell it, but it sure was fun while it lasted!
Regarding breeding for eventing - don’t expect the big prices for youngsters! Eventers are a hardy and savvy bunch and can make a silk purse that has talent and stamina out of a sow’s ear given the time and commitment they put into it! Think OTTBs, etc.
[QUOTE=Equine Reproduction;6476974]
Or perhaps, we as breeders of sporthorses, need to INVEST in our young riders AND our horses! We’ve made the decision to try and support a young, talented rider and send our young and talented stallion to her. We’re definitely not rich and it’s taking investment and commitment from everyone in order to try to make it happen. But we believe in the rider’s talent and we believe in the horse’s talent. I think until we as breeders are willing to make some sacrifices to get OUR homebreds between the legs of some of OUR riders, we will continue to be disappointed.[/QUOTE]
We’ve done this twice now – put a talented horse in the hands of a young talented rider. But my bank account requires some amount of return, and frankly, the eventing market is not the place to look for a return.
[QUOTE=Bent Hickory;6477028]
We’ve done this twice now – put a talented horse in the hands of a young talented rider. But my bank account requires some amount of return, and frankly, the eventing market is not the place to look for a return.[/QUOTE]
We have absolutely NO expectation of a return on that investment. Our hope is that it will a: Give a super talented rider an opportunity she can’t afford; b: Get one of our super talented offspring out there and hopefully help represent our breeding program; and c: HOPEFULLY, help promote our own homegrown horses and make people sit up and take notice of what we “are” producing here. But it “does” require a commitment from everyone involved - we can’t afford to just open up our bank account and pay the whole “ride”.
Just for Historical comparison one word “Totilas”
[QUOTE=Bent Hickory;6477028]
We’ve done this twice now – put a talented horse in the hands of a young talented rider. But my bank account requires some amount of return, and frankly, the eventing market is not the place to look for a return.[/QUOTE]
We, too, have twice put very talented youngsters in the hands of young amateurs and, in those instances, everyone has been very happy. But in both instances these were TB weanlings that, while outstandingly well bred for eventing, were the bonus offspring of two imported TB mares that were part of a rescue and thus had involved minimal financial investment on our part.
The one time we considered putting a very talented mare in the hands of a rising eventing star, she wanted a deal in which, as the mare increased in value through training and experience, our share in the mare would gradually diminish until she was the 100% owner of the mare. This kind of sponsorship is ruinous to us financially, so we declined getting involved in this “partnership”.
It is unfortunate, but, while we have two mares here that were actually imported from Europe specifically to produce eventers, we are reluctant to use them for that purpose because of the seeming prevailing mentality in the eventer world that at least domestically, you are entitled to get something for nothing. We can’t survive without some kind of return on our own investment and, sadly, do not make breeding choices aimed at the eventing market.
That’s not a partnership. That’s a one way street. That is NOT the kind of relationship I am speaking of.
It is unfortunate, but, while we have two mares here that were actually imported from Europe specifically to produce eventers, we are reluctant to use them for that purpose because of the seeming prevailing mentality in the eventer world that at least domestically, you are entitled to get something for nothing.
I will politely but adamantly disagree with that. I have found so many eventers that are willing to work for what they have. They WILL work for and have no expectations beyond hopefully improving on what they have. But entitlement? Not something I see amongst most the eventers I’ve had the pleasure of meeting, thankfully.
I do think it comes back to knowing your market. Realistically, take a look demographically at most event riders ;). They are usually young, starting out in life and consequently don’t have a huge amount of money. They don’t HAVE the funds to invest in an upper level horse generally speaking. OTTB’s are cheap. They require an investment in time, but not usually a lot of money. Consequently, if you are looking at the event market as a whole, there “will” be a smaller number of riders that will have the funds to purchase the higher potential horses. Flip side of it is that because breeders have your attitude, most breeders don’t even bother breeding for the event market. We end up with horses that aren’t bred for that discipline and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy that we don’t have horses with the upper level potential so riders go across the pond to purchase those horses and we don’t have American bred animals competing for us. Gah!!
We can’t survive without some kind of return on our own investment and, sadly, do not make breeding choices aimed at the eventing market.
As I have stated again and again, we also cannot afford to give away our horses - okay we “do” give one away a year for the foal raffle :D, but that’s just giving BACK to the industry. We HAVE to realize a return on our investment, as well. But, not every horse. As breeders we ALL will have horses that while lovely, will be for the low level riders and consequently will sell for a lower price. Another horse with more potential may have to carry more of the burden of pulling the financial “weight” of the business. Sometimes it turns out to be a good investment putting a top level horse with an individual with top level potential in order to get the word out there that there “is” a place to go that “does” produce horses with that ability. And ya know it feels pretty good when you see your dreams, beliefs and breeding program begin to come to fruition, especially if you are helping a young rider realize their dreams, as well!
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