Bayhawk, so what if there is no TB Studbook accepted by the WFSHB. Now you are being ridiculous. If there is no Sport Studbook for TBs, there can be no world rankings in any sport. QED.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;6486652]
Bayhawk, so what if there is no TB Studbook accepted by the WFSHB. Now you are being ridiculous. If there is no Sport Studbook for TBs, there can be no world rankings in any sport. QED.[/QUOTE]
Oh no… Tb horses are ranked and so are TB female families…or should I say NOT ranked.
I’ve said over and over and so have many other folks. The Tb’s only contribution to top sport is basically in generational warmblood breeding. TB’s are not currently the best eventers, hunters , jumpers nor dressage horses.
Reason : FEW breed with them for sport ! You have no knowledge of families…you don’t have sporthorse producing mares standing around on one farm. You don’t select breeding stock specifically designed to the discipline at hand.
Where in the world can you go to a farm with 100% TB’s standing around being bred for the Olympic disciplines ?
I appreciate and give credit to the TB stallions in the pedigrees of todays top athletes around the world. They wouldn’t be top athletes without the infusion of the TB stallions , this is for sure.
Why is it so hard for you to accept that WB’s are dominating every sport discipline and TB’s are not ?
You can’t claim Michael Jungs horse. You can’t claim Marius. You can only claim a TB…not a cross.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;6486410]
Looks like the Holsteiner Verband has once again come up dry in the World Championship (Olympics) of SJ where medals are concerned. At the 2010 WEG their top horse was fifth. Their top horse this Olympics is the Mexican rider on Rosalia.
And in the Teams, none of the medal winners are registered Holsteiner.
Congratulations to the SFs for their gold, and to the BWP for silver and the Oldenburgs for bronze.
Is the day of the Holsteiner over in International Show Jumping?:winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
Anyone else notice that that 5th placed mare, Rosalia La Silla, from Mexico, is a full sister to California-based conformation hunter stallion, Cunningham (and sire of both my babies!)???
[QUOTE=fish;6486748]
Anyone else notice that that 5th placed mare, Rosalia La Silla, from Mexico, is a full sister to California-based conformation hunter stallion, Cunningham (and sire of both my babies!)???[/QUOTE]
Yes ! I was glad to see this beautiful Holsteiner mare had a 5th place showing. She is very athletic. Congrats ! we are lucky to have Cunningham here.
Well then, according to the current Wbfsh rankings as of June, the number 1 event horse in the world is a TB.
And if you take the top five listed TBs with points and add them up, the pure TB would be ranked as the second eventing studbook after the ISH.
Those ranking don’t mean anything at all because they are based on volume of showing, not quality of competition.
Of the current top ten eventing sires, the top two are pure TB, and so are two more of the others.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;6486943]
Well then, according to the current Wbfsh rankings as of June, the number 1 event horse in the world is a TB.
And if you take the top five listed TBs with points and add them up, the pure TB would be ranked as the second eventing studbook after the ISH.
Those ranking don’t mean anything at all because they are based on volume of showing, not quality of competition.
Of the current top ten eventing sires, the top two are pure TB, and so are two more of the others.[/QUOTE]
Oh good Viney. You finally found a few horses to support your cause. Good on you !
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;6487307]
Oh good Viney. You finally found a few horses to support your cause. Good on you ![/QUOTE]
Well you know she was working with a handicap as she can only call full-blooded TBs Thoroughbreds since, per you, all TB crosses are warmbloods.
You are incorrect. Tell me where in the rules it says Cedric’s sale from one US citizen to another prevented him from competing in the Olympics.
2.2. Ownership
2.2.1. Horses entered for the Equestrian Events at the Olympic Games must have been registered with FEI as property of owners of the same nationality as the Athlete, by 31 December 2011.
2.2.2. Horses, with multinational ownership, must be registered with FEI by the 31 December 2011 (as per above paragraph), under the name of the nation for which the
Horse will compete during the Olympic Games.
2.2.3. National Federations (NFs) are responsible to ensure that Horses which do not meet ownership requirements as laid down by FEI, are not entered for the Equestrian Events at the Olympic Games.
[QUOTE=HalteranAlter;6487437]
You are incorrect. Tell me where in the rules it says Cedric’s sale from one US citizen to another prevented him from competing in the Olympics.
2.2. Ownership
2.2.1. Horses entered for the Equestrian Events at the Olympic Games must have been registered with FEI as property of owners of the same nationality as the Athlete, by 31 December 2011.
2.2.2. Horses, with multinational ownership, must be registered with FEI by the 31 December 2011 (as per above paragraph), under the name of the nation for which the
Horse will compete during the Olympic Games.
2.2.3. National Federations (NFs) are responsible to ensure that Horses which do not meet ownership requirements as laid down by FEI, are not entered for the Equestrian Events at the Olympic Games.[/QUOTE]
it was my understanding from Laura that the paperwork was not submitted by the new owners before the cut off.
[QUOTE=RacetrackReject;6487368]
Well you know she was working with a handicap as she can only call full-blooded TBs Thoroughbreds since, per you, all TB crosses are warmbloods.[/QUOTE]
All TB crosses are warmbloods if they come from WB motherlines. Big difference.
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;6487469]
it was my understanding from Laura that the paperwork was not submitted by the new owners before the cut off.[/QUOTE]
You are making no sense since Cedric has always been owned by owner(s) of the same nationality as the Athlete (Laura). The old owner and new owner.
By your reckoning then, Bayhawk, the Hanoverian stallion, Winston, who sired the Olympic gold dressage horse, Unicef Renoir, can’t be a warmblood since his dam was a pure TB. I guess he was just a Hanoverian x TB cross. 
[QUOTE=HalteranAlter;6487499]
You are making no sense since Cedric has always been owned by owner(s) of the same nationality as the Athlete (Laura). The old owner and new owner.[/QUOTE]
The way I understood it was that the ownership had to be the same as of DEC. 15th of the upcoming Olympic year.
I could be wrong about the specifics but this was the explanation I got.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;6487560]
By your reckoning then, Bayhawk, the Hanoverian stallion, Winston, who sired the Olympic gold dressage horse, Unicef Renoir, can’t be a warmblood since his dam was a pure TB. I guess he was just a Hanoverian x TB cross. :)[/QUOTE]
why is it so hard for you to follow the protocol of the rest of the world ? If in fact you had a registry… then yes , the TB female family would get credit for producing this WINSTON horse and the hypothetical TB studbook would garner his points.
Since you dont…it is registered Hannoverian and called a Hannoverian.
You need to quit bitchin at me because you don’t have a studbook Viney !
Despite all the arguments in this thread… we still failed at the Olympics this year. Boooo!
So… Lets fix our young horse development and start supporting the breeders who are trying to give the industry a dependable supply of quality horses to pick from. Then we fix everything else and we’re good to go! ha ha ha
Gosh I almost can’t argue with this thread… Lots to fix!
Cheers
Actually what seems to be needed is a housecleaning at the USEF, right along with a new president/dictator. There needs to be change in the High Performance Division anyway.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;6488165]
Actually what seems to be needed is a housecleaning at the USEF, right along with a new president/dictator. There needs to be change in the High Performance Division anyway.[/QUOTE]
OMG Viney ! we finally agree on something !
What do you mean there is no TB studbook recognised by the WFSHB? Other registries accept them for breeding as they are recognised by the WFSHB. If they didn’t I wouldn’t have full (main studbook) papers on Abba with the KWPN. Saying they do not recognise a full TB is ridiculous. Unlike some studbooks, you’re always guaranteed 5 full generations of pedigree on the TB side.
Terri
[QUOTE=Equilibrium;6488290]
Unlike some studbooks, you’re always guaranteed 5 full generations of pedigree on the TB side.[/QUOTE]
It would be fascinating to see what the impact on performance statistics would be if the various standings required 5 “pure” generations in order to be considered an animal of a specific breed or registry, with everything else being considered an outcross!
I think what Bayhawk meant was that there isn’t a TB Sport registry. So those TBs are registered, as you say, with other registries, such as KWPN. So points your mare earn show as KWPN vs TB Sport whatever. That’s how I read it, anyway??
[QUOTE=Equilibrium;6488290]
What do you mean there is no TB studbook recognised by the WFSHB? Other registries accept them for breeding as they are recognised by the WFSHB. If they didn’t I wouldn’t have full (main studbook) papers on Abba with the KWPN. Saying they do not recognise a full TB is ridiculous. Unlike some studbooks, you’re always guaranteed 5 full generations of pedigree on the TB side.
Terri[/QUOTE]
